Covid isn't the only game in town

[Patrick NC]

This past weekend I was feeling a little under the weather. Headache,  fatigue,  no appetite,  etc. I figured it was just a simple sinus infection so I took some ibuprofen and carried on like usual.  Well, Monday morning when I got up for work I was so weak that I could hardly stand and ached all over. So I called in sick and scheduled a covid test.  Results were negative. Went home and slept all day after dosing up real good on NY QUILL. Still the same on Tuesday so doc said take another covid test.  Also negative.  She called in some antibiotics and scheduled an appointment for today.  Turns out it's bacterial pneumonia. She gave me a steroid shot and a z-pac and I'm finally feeling a little better.  Doc says it might be a couple of weeks before I back to normal.  Scary stuff.  I don't remember ever being this sick before. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Patrick,

   Sorry to hear you are/have been on the puny list. I hope the pill pushers get you straightened out quick and properly. Stay safe, drink lots of orange juice, eat plenty of grits and hopefully you will be out making sawdust with the best of them real soon. 

   I wonder if cedar sawdust causes pneumonia?

[SwampDonkey]

Years ago I had a bad flew, not pneumonia but pretty close, but I was out for 2 weeks, sore all over, couldn't eat, coughed up thick flem only had Sussex ginger ale (before Cadbury ruined it) for days. Smell of food would make me puke. Stuff tasted really weird to. It was nasty. I was eating in the second week. I bet I coughed flem for 2 more weeks.

[mike_belben]

buddy of mine is an ER nurse, sees lots of people die from covid and says pneumonia infection is biggest killer. when my kid recently got covid nurse buddy told me have him sleep on his stomach and 3x a day to do a breathing exercise where you inhale slow and steady until overinflated, and then with a wide open mouth, blast out all that air like blowing out candles, until you about gasp from underinflation.

  the idea is to change out all the co2 for fresh oxygen because anaerobic bacterias are generally all toxic and oxygen should help kill them, and also to cough out any gooey lungers possible which is also full of bad bacteria, fungi or whatever else.  so it was 3 times a day a set of 10 reps.  and tons of vitamin C and water.

the kid got over covid in 3 days to his moms 8 or 10 so id like to think it helped. i loaded him full of elderberry syrup, blueberries, cranberries, OJ etc.

[Patrick NC]

buddy of mine is an ER nurse, sees lots of people die from covid and says pneumonia infection is biggest killer. when my kid recently got covid nurse buddy told me have him sleep on his stomach and 3x a day to do a breathing exercise where you inhale slow and steady until overinflated, and then with a wide open mouth, blast out all that air like blowing out candles, until you about gasp from underinflation.

 the idea is to change out all the co2 for fresh oxygen because anaerobic bacterias are generally all toxic and oxygen should help kill them, and also to cough out any gooey lungers possible which is also full of bad bacteria, fungi or whatever else.  so it was 3 times a day a set of 10 reps.  and tons of vitamin C and water.

the kid got over covid in 3 days to his moms 8 or 10 so id like to think it helped. i loaded him full of elderberry syrup, blueberries, cranberries, OJ etc.

That lung exercise sounds like what I was told to do with the ibuterol inhaler they gave me. 

[Don P]

 I wonder if cedar sawdust causes pneumonia?

I believe it can cause a type of it, but it isn't bacterial. It didn't cause it but it might bring something nasty back. Locust is right up there on rough on your lungs too. You're probably in wear a very good mask condition for awhile.

[SwampDonkey]

Could be hypersensitivity pneumonitis like a form of farmer's lung if the sawdust carries some kind of mould in it.

Farmer's lung is usually from dust born from mouldy hay or grains.

[Ianab]

buddy of mine is an ER nurse, sees lots of people die from covid and says pneumonia infection is biggest killer.

Pneumonia isn't a specific infection, and can be directly caused by the Covid virus. Pneumonia is a condition where the tiny air sacs in the lungs have been infected by "something". Could be a virus / bacteria / fungus. They get inflamed and fill with fluid, and can't transfer oxygen any more. Naturally if this gets bad enough, you die. 

So yes pneumonia is the most likely way that Covid will finish you off, but you can still develop pneumonia from all the normal infections. It's also possible to develop secondary infections after an initial viral infection as your body is weaker and there is damaged tissue waiting to be infected. India saw a lot of "black fungus" lung infections after Covid, because the steroid treatment used to reduce the inflammation from Covid also suppressed the bodies ability to fight off the fungal infection.

 

my kid recently got covid nurse buddy told me have him sleep on his stomach

That's something the Drs have discovered during the course of treating patients. Usually if you are on oxygen they would have you propped up on your back, and for some reason that's not ideal. So I believe treatments now involve rolling patients over on to their stomach periodically. Seems to help clear the lungs better? It's one of those little things that's allowed better treatment of patients, and a better survival rate than the first outbreaks. Not a magic cure, just a slightly better method of treatment.

But Patrick is correct, all the regular infections that can put someone is hospital are still lurking out there. Over the winter we had an outbreak of Respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), which put a lot of kids in hospital. Like the bacterial infection this virus can cause symptoms similar to Covid, and testing is really the only way to be sure. 

[Ianab]

I wonder if cedar sawdust causes pneumoni

That would be called "hypersensitivity pneumonitis".  More of an allergic reaction to the chemicals in the wood. You know how if you have an allergy to something your skin can become red and inflamed? Now imagine that happening deep inside your lungs after breathing in some sawdust. 

Not quite the same as an infection, but quite real and potentially dangerous. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Don & Ian,

   Sorry, I was just rattling Patrick's cage a little bit because he is typically sawing and showing pictures of real pretty cedar that makes me envious. I was being facetious in the comment and not really serious about cedar being the cause.

[Don P]

I've been told I'm too short, the fast ones go right over  :D.

[YellowHammer]

When I had my hip replaced they made it a point to me, several times, to not be allowed to lay in the bed, and so made me sit in a nice "Archie Bunker" style chair most of the day.  They said that they could have a healthy person lay in bed, on their back, for three days and on the fourth they would have pneumonia.  

[SwampDonkey]

Link to info on farmer's lung, a form of hypersensitivity pneumonitis I mentioned above. Interesting is the percentage of farm workers who where found to have been exposed to certain disease agents that cause it, when testing.

Farmer's Lung : OSH Answers

[Ricker]

Pneumonia is nothing to mess with, especially when you get some age on you. 5 years ago I know of 4 guys about 70 that caught it.  They were men's men. Workers their whole lives, still in good, healthy shape.  Not a one ever fully recovered.  A uncle and 2 guys have passed away within the last year after constant health issues.  My father, a logger his whole adult life, is holding on.  Just a shell of himself, one problem after another, gone from a solid 180 pounds to a bag of bones tipping the scale at 110.

[SwampDonkey]

Legionnaires' disease is another nasty pneumonia, it can infect a room of people with poor ventilation. It has struck a couple places here in the last 2 years.

[kantuckid]

Squeeze bottle nettie bottles are the wood workers sinus & lungs best friend! # parts kosher, non-iodized salt to one part baking soda. Do it as soon as you stop work! Use it prior to any Rx nasal sprays. 
 Walnut fine dust only tears me up most. Pine much less, ERC is nasty too-I think OHSA lists it. Osage is bad one. 

[Don P]

One thing with a netti pot or nasal rinses, especially for those of us on our own water supply, boil the water first, let it cool then mix and use. You can grow out some nasty bugs in your sinus that your gut has no problem killing.

[kantuckid]

I'm far, far from a great medical source :D but have never boiled my water for nettie pot bottle. I've use tap water only for years- maybe I'm lucky? Actually, I used non-treated spring water for long time until we got city water. 
From curiosity I just now read a few items and some say use distilled or boiled water, some don't say. I thought the salt did the trick on germs? but what do I know, not much :D 
A pulmonologist RN told me once that the main concern is to use non-iodized salt as it's kinder to sinus tissues than iodized.
My BIL will only use the store bought salt/soda mix but I do my own as it's not really a crucial accuracy item, just do 3:1 salt to soda using a teaspoon into a zip lock bag. I have learned to rinse well before bedtime so as not to have waterboarded myself before I lay down my head. 
 

[Ljohnsaw]

So I called in sick and scheduled a covid test. Results were negative. Went home and slept all day after dosing up real good on NY QUILL. Still the same on Tuesday so doc said take another covid test.

Interesting that you could get two tests so quickly.  My daughter (30) lives at home part time, the rest at her boyfriends.  They both work at a feed store - he delivers hay and feed, she works the retail counter.  So she has lots of exposure.  Anyhow, when she went into work on Thursday, 12/23, the boss looked at her and another coworker and sent them home.  She slept all day Thursday and Friday till noon or so. 

She came home hacking and wheezing.  Great, now I'm gonna get sick.  Sure enough, Christmas afternoon started to feel pretty run down/run over.  Worse on Sunday.  My fishing buddy says you HAVE to get a covid test.  I said, why?  There isn't any treatments.  He said oh, yes there is!

So I go online and answer a bunch of questions and the soonest I could get a covid test was Wednesday afternoon.  So I called in.  Twenty five minutes on hold to get someone that said they can't help me but will put my call through to someone who can.  Another 10 minutes on hold.  The advice nurse reviews my medical history and says I'm not at risk.  So I ask point blank, If I do test positive, do you have any treatments available? No.  So I ask myself, what's the point of the tests?

My symptoms are lower back/kidney pain, under my shoulder blades pain.  Hacking cough with some mucus, headache, dizziness, and a low fever of 100.1 (my normal is 97.5).  No shortness of breath, just mild pain when taking a deep breath.  No wheezing that I can hear but the last time I had pneumonia, the doc heard something.   So the nurse scheduled me for a phone appointment a 1:50 today to see if I should come in for a chest xray or something - possible pneumonia?

[SwampDonkey]

I'm far, far from a great medical source :D but have never boiled my water for nettie pot bottle. I've use tap water only for years- maybe I'm lucky?

Mother never has, the water line here has a high flow filter and also runs through a water softener. Good old well been used over 100 years.

I think a COVID test up here is up to a 3 day wait when in self isolation.

[doc henderson]

John, if you are less than 10 days of beginning of symptoms, they can give you monoclonal antibody infusion, that gives you neutralizing antibodies.  so yes, the is a treatment.  If you are immunized and or have had the disease, you will prob. be fine.  the antibody treatment can stop the cellular spread and cut the course short if you get it soon enough.

[Ljohnsaw]

if you are less than 10 of beginning of symptoms

I don't understand that statement.  Can you clarify?

the antibody treatment can stop the cellular spread and cut the course short if you get it soon enough.

That's just it.  When is "soon enough"?  I understand you need to wait for there to be enough to detect, but all the online places want to hold off for 3-5 days from onset.  Maybe because I have 2 vacs, I'm good to wait a while longer?

Edit:  I re-read.  I think you mean less than 10 DAYS.  So getting the monoclonal treatment has to be in the first 10 days?  Man, I felt like crap the 2nd day!

[doc henderson]

sorry I worked all night, so it made sense to me.  yes, the monoclonal needs by rules to be in the first 10 days of symptoms.  takes a few hours, even though the infusion is 20 minutes.  It has to sit a while after being mixed, and you are observed for an hour after infusion.  It stops the cell to cell spread of the virus by covering the spike protein with an antibody so it cannot attach.  same sort of antibody you would get with the vaccine or the disease covid.  sooner is better as fewer cells get infected.  soon enough is that you do not get as sick or die.  rule is before you are hypoxic, or in the hospital from covid.  If the Omicron is mild enough, we may stop monoclonals after it predominates in our county.  still delta here.
here is data from Sedgwick County (Wichita 45 miles away) vs reno county where I live and work now.



 

 

I hope the new Omicron is a cold. we have been overwhelmed daily.  we see on average 60 patients in 24 hours throughout the year.  We 104 in the past 24 hours not counting the dozen who got up and left after waiting for hours.  same number of rooms and staff.  so, we promote giving the Monoclonal, so you and others do not end up coming to see us.  this is how we eat.  

[doc henderson]

if you do a home test, or at a little clinic, you may not be told about, and they may not know about the monoclonal.
there is some evidence that getting it after you are really sick may flog the immune inflammatory response and make you sicker, just like early steroid put you at high risk, and only help after your lungs are splotchy with pneumonitis.

edit: thanks, I added the word "days" to my prev. comments.

[21incher]

Thanks Doc for all you have done.  I don't  know  how you keep going.  My wife  just found  out a good friend  of ours has the covid pneumonia talked about here.  Younger then me was in good health fully vaccinated with  a booster.  Has been in ICU for 3 weeks and they now say he will survive and go to rehab in about 2 weeks. It's  at the point where just about  everyone  I know  has had or died from covid.  I sure hope there is a end in sight soon. Thanks again  for all you do Doc Henderson.