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Author Topic: Working on a building.  (Read 3921 times)

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Offline 711ac

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Working on a building.
« on: April 22, 2021, 07:37:12 PM »
Broke ground today on my 37x40 home for my mill. 
I'm doing a strange foundation as I don't want to put wood in the dirt anymore (pole building) and don't want to pay for pt lumber either. I'm digging a 3'+ ditch, putting in a foot of crushed stone then dropping in those big concrete blocks (2x2x6) that will end up flush with the grade.  


Pretty cheap, this load of 20 was $1245 delivered to my yard. 


 

Once all the blocks are in, I'll be forming and pouring a 12" "cap" to level everything up and wet dip the brackets in the concrete at the posts location's. 


Offline farmfromkansas

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2021, 08:05:59 PM »
You might check out the hardware Menards is selling to mount your posts to a concrete pier.  
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Offline Don P

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2021, 10:08:25 PM »
That looks like a neat idea, I hope you'll post what you think as it goes forward. If you screw scraps across the forms and screw the brackets to those it'll make for accurate alignment and less thinking that has to go on in the heat of the moment during the pour.
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Offline Southside

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2021, 10:15:25 PM »
Are you going to anchor the cap to the blocks?
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Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2021, 06:57:09 AM »
Are you going to anchor the cap to the blocks?
Nothing more than drilling some holes for rebar for connecting them. I'll use hydraulic cement for the pins into the blocks. I'm planning on 4 bars in the cap along the length and am thinking about tieing my post brackets to that before pouring over "dipping" them in at the pour. I'll follow up through out the build. 

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2021, 08:09:12 AM »
<br
Yea! Ground water. 💥

Offline Southside

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2021, 01:36:23 PM »
Ugg - the blocks going to be below the frost line?
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Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2021, 05:24:56 PM »
The stone bed under the blocks will be near frost level. I dug a ditch for drain tile to daylight yesterday after hitting the water, and believe that it's a seasonal thing. I thought that this was a possibility and it would eventually need to be handled. 
My buddy that's a local native and familiar with foundations and the local soils said that moving groundwater won't freeze and simply tiling  it  would be fine. It'll stay open till Monday and I'll grab some drain tile and get back to it. 

Offline Mike W

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2021, 10:28:48 AM »
Simple as Don P mentioned, set your brackets ahead of time, one less stress point during the pour and finish.  We use the 6x6 standoff anchors for a lot of garage and pole buildings we erect, don't like setting posts in the ground, pressure treated or not.  Pic is before the slab reinforcing and footing reinforcing were put in place, but gives you the idea.  a 1" block under the carrier keeps the 1" standoff plate just the right height, easy to remove once the mud is set a bit and finishing can be completed easily around them.  The tape is to keep the mud out of the screw heads so the cleats can get removed quickly without having to dig out the sand/cement that would make it a hassle during the pour/finishing

Cheers

 

 

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2021, 02:16:12 PM »
I've got a layer of coarse sand that waters traveling through. 

 
Gotta get more pipe!
I am halfway done with the blocks but this water is a necessary diversion. 

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2021, 09:17:31 PM »
Ground water is handled after about 160' of ditching and pipe. We had 1.75" of rain during this process that added to the fun.
All the blocks are set and back filled and I have the materials 
(#4 bar and form lumber) to complete the "foundation" to the point of calling for concrete. 
 Supposed to get rainy mid week and I'll work on my post and brackets that I'm fabricating. 

<br
At the shovel, the water breaks away from the camera to the woods. This side travels towards the camera to the woods about 100' behind. 

Offline Crossroads

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2021, 11:59:51 PM »
I like it and may end up doing something similar in a few months. 
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Offline jpassardi

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2021, 07:44:04 AM »
Understandably the building is for a sawmill so some movement and cracking isn't going to be a deal breaker. Drywall cracking due to deflection obviously isn't a concern.
Just bear in mind that the slab which I assume will also cap the blocks will move with frost. If the posts are supported by the slab (not directly by the blocks), the slab will want to heave away from the blocks but likely will crack instead, more so with a large snow load. With the building unheated, the portion of the slab inside of the blocks will be unprotected - the water in the soil will freeze sooner than below the blocks.
I suggest cutting a good amount of control joints in the slab as it will crack. As you likely know, most slabs will crack due to the initial curing shrinkage alone. Rebar will help prevent shifting at the cracks.
Definitely an improvement over working in the mud and out in the elements!
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Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2021, 05:14:50 PM »
I'm not pouring a slab, it will be  crushed stone. A day on concrete is tough on me. I may regret it come clean up time, but that can be added later if I choose to. This "cap" is only to tie the blocks together, provide a little more distance from the grade to wood, and allow me to place my post anchoring into it (wet dip) vs. drilling and expanding wedge bolts. It also will level everything out, those blocks are somewhat inconsistent and difficult to place perfectly @ about 3600# each-by myself. 
I'm making my own brackets, similar to the ones offered by "perma-column" except their 2' high for bolting and I need 25 of them!

Offline jpassardi

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2021, 07:49:49 PM »
Ahh...the use of block makes sense the way you're doing it then.
If you were pouring a slab it would be cheaper to just haunch the pour down at the perimeter.
I know what you mean, I used those blocks to make a retaining wall to support my small barn.
You may want to use processed gravel for the floor so you can clean the sawdust off, 3/4 stone would let the sawdust fill the voids.
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Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2021, 06:25:52 AM »
Yes, the gravel will have the "fines" in it to lock it together. A friend has a decent plate compactor that I'll run across it.

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2021, 06:20:43 AM »
 

I got started on the post brackets yesterday. Rainy, good shop weather.

 


Offline farmfromkansas

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2021, 09:37:43 PM »
Not sure I understand completely how you are holding your anchors down, but they do make an epoxy to glue your rebar into a hole in concrete.  They say they hold as well as a anchor bolt that is placed in poured concrete.
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Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2021, 06:57:03 AM »
I'll be pouring a 12" thick "cap" on the heavy buried blocks, then pushing the brackets into the wet concrete. 
I finished welding all of them yesterday and got them partially painted. 

Offline BUGGUTZ

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2021, 07:47:23 PM »
You might consider putting a slight bend or an L in your bar, so its not a straight peg in the slab.

I like the use of bin blocks for a foundation.
Everyone has to be somewhere.

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2021, 08:38:16 PM »
Got a start on forming the cap today. The building is almost square, but 3 of the walls will have pretty big openings for access. This creates 3 sections to form for the cap. The north wall has no openings and is the longest continuous form, 41' with a 9'6" corner at each end. 


 
that wood inside the form is just temporary to keep the sides square. Once I cut some stakes I'll brace it up from the outside and remove them. Right now the forms are just sitting on the blocks and once they're all built I'll string line and stake it down.

Offline Crossroads

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2021, 09:23:13 AM »
Looking good!
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Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2021, 04:11:58 PM »
2nd coat of galvanized (silver trailer roof paint)😆
The rebar end gets pushed into the wet cement cap. 1 every 4'. I
It'll make sense later. 


 

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2021, 05:09:11 PM »
Form work :embarassed:. Not really that bad, just a lot slower than I thought it would be. This back wall pictured earlier was easy, then I realized that I need to form in a space for the future rolling doors to open IN to if I don't want a 6" gap between the door and the ground. 
I'm happy that I "caught" this now.

 

 

Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2021, 08:38:59 PM »
Better to do it right than cut corners especially if you had a blowout you would really be cursing 🤬 

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2021, 10:02:47 PM »
When I formed up the outer ring foundation for my new garage/workshop, I fabricated steel braces to go across the tops of the form boards. These I made from 3/8" bar stock welded to cutoffs of 1 3/4" angle iron with screw holes to attach to the forms. These held the inner and outer form parallel and straight, and lessened the need for stakes. After the concrete had firmed up some, I unscrewed them and finish troweled the surface and rounded over the edge for the garage doorway.
 

 
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

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Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2021, 09:12:29 AM »
I have 5 of those big blocks left over and they are working well to brace the forms to. I've had blowouts before in what little form - concrete I've done, but it was a much different situation. My concrete contractor buddy stopped by yesterday a said with a few simple things that the forms are good to pour. I'm starting with my rebar.

 

 

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2021, 07:35:02 PM »
Hit a milestone today with the concrete poured and the post bases set.

 

 

Offline samandothers

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2021, 10:15:23 PM »
That's a bunch of bases! 

Looking good!

Offline JRWoodchuck

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2021, 10:47:47 PM »
I like the chamfered corner detail!
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Offline tmbrcruiser

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2021, 12:16:08 AM »
Congratulations on getting the mill building up. Looking forward to seeing dust on the floor. Good job!
Once you get sap in your veins, you will always have sawdust in your pockets.

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2021, 04:51:05 AM »
I like the chamfered corner detail!
That will be above grade. I pictured myself having the inevitable "oops" resulting in a damaged wall AND a ruined sidewall on a fairly expensive tire.😫

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2021, 01:59:09 PM »
For not being a form carpenter, I'm happy with this pour.

 

 

Online Tom King

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #33 on: May 27, 2021, 04:56:09 PM »
Looks great!!!

Offline tmbrcruiser

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #34 on: May 29, 2021, 07:13:03 AM »
Looks great, please keep the pictures coming. The ground doesn't freeze very deep in Delaware. So your foundation is very interesting and clever.
Once you get sap in your veins, you will always have sawdust in your pockets.

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2021, 07:46:00 AM »
Very nice work
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Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2021, 07:51:11 AM »
Since it's finally raining (thankfully) and I'm still cleaning up the form wood with nothing big to show, more pictures. I enjoy them on other threads and they help explain better than words. 
<br
These will be the roof structure, 37'4". I scrounged these 11 "bar joists" pieces 8 or so years ago for around $400. I am not familiar with steel construction and it took a while to come up with a plan or a cheap plan.
This is why there's so many posts, each individual joist will sit on a post. Every pair of posts will be taller than the lower post up until the peak, then work it's way back down to the eave. 


 
Then I ran into this pile of 8x8 posts, for free, stickered, in a building with a concrete floor. 👍 they are over 20' long and he delivered them. It costs me a days time helping him clean up and organize this 50x100 quansit building, he just wanted them gone. This was through another forum, not sawmill related. I'll have to "tune up" some of these as you can see the twist, but that's the next step. The shorter posts will be somewhere around 10' with the longest 17' at least according to my sketches, I have the basic design but I'm prone to changes when it becomes something real that I can actually see. I'd like a minimum 10' clearance for my various equipment to enter. There will be an opening on each wave end, almost 19' wide. I've formed in a void in the concrete to accept rolling doors sometime in the future along with another 18' opening in what will be the gable end - the longer dimension. I've yet designed the truss or beam that's required for this, iirc I've got 3 or 4 joists to support. The math for load calculations scrambles my brain.

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2021, 07:59:01 AM »
 <br
 

 

 


Sorry for the sideways pictures 

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #38 on: May 30, 2021, 12:22:32 PM »
This should help, just finished getting all the form wood and bracing out of there. 

 

 

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2021, 12:38:21 PM »
Im enjoying your build and your pictures but Im getting a crick in my neck.  :)  Just a little hint that might help: when inserting pictures from your gallery theres a ROTATE button right there that makes it easy to fix your pic orientation just before you insert it. No big deal, but thought youd like to know. We all had to go through a little learning process on this, so no worries. 

Looking forward to following your build to the finish line. 


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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #40 on: May 30, 2021, 03:09:10 PM »
Nice job on the building!,  Im jelly...

I am now an expert on rotating photos.  Go into your gallery, click on the photo,  at the bottom of the photo there will be an icon +90.   Click on that and save photo.  Should work
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Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #41 on: May 30, 2021, 03:12:24 PM »
Sorry about your neck, I just corrected my photos and thank you! 👍
The finish line hopefully is before next winter, I don't want to set the bar too high and I slow down terribly much above 75-80 😫

 

  

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2021, 03:30:36 PM »
Thanks!  And thanks to new member Les Staley who cleaned up my mistakes on the name of the button and elaborating on the procedure. 

Im waiting to see how those trusses work out. Nice find there. I couldnt quite form the picture of the roof profile from the description, but it sounds like it will be nice and very functional. 
HM126

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2021, 06:12:11 PM »
If you look at the top picture you'll see the back wall, it's solid with no break in the footer. The bar joists will sit on progressively taller posts until the middle (peak or ridge), then get shorter down to the eave level, equal on both sides. I need to design the truss or beam to carry 3 of the joists above the front opening.
The bottom pic is the opposite or front wall and the door opening is clear, in the middle. 

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2021, 08:01:12 AM »
I don't really know what I was thinking when I was pondering a smaller building. 


 

 

 
I have many measuring "tools", but it's always a slight surprise to see it other than lines on a paper. This should work fine for me.

Offline VB-Milling

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2021, 12:37:49 PM »
Looking fantastic.  The ingenuity and resourcefulness on the foundation work and the salvaged timber and roof trusses is awesome!  Looking forward to seeing it go vertical.

Good thing you fabbed up those steel post bases yourself...I can only imagine what Simpson would charge for something so stout and large!
Waiting on my HM126 delivery...Expected Sep 2021

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2021, 06:05:55 PM »
" Resourcefulness" thank you! 
I'm just a cheap SOB. 😆

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #47 on: June 02, 2021, 07:26:01 PM »
Well re sawing the twist out of my free timbers is working out well. Being inexperienced I was worried that there was something that I hadn't thought of, and would end up having too small of post to fit properly in my bases. 

 

 

 

 
The shortest posts are 10' and I needed 8, I took the 20' timbers with the worst twist and cut them in half, then cut them to dimension. 
They were all originally cut at 8x8, I'm re sawing them to 6 7/8 7 1/2. 

Offline Anderson

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2021, 06:56:45 AM »
Really love seeing your progress!
Thank you for keeping us up to date with pictures.

Keep up the good work! 8)

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2021, 09:02:43 AM »
We're having a heat spell, that shuts me down. Just no patience for it anymore  (now that I don't HAVE to) 
I'm a few timbers away from having them cut, but I'd trade a month of 20* for a day over 80*.
My little building site is of course in the wide open sun.
Crying session is done. 😆

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #50 on: June 11, 2021, 05:19:49 PM »
Finally got started on the fun part. 

 

 

 

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2021, 09:35:07 PM »
At least you have the right tool for the job.  :)
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2021, 06:37:49 AM »
Heck yeah.  Beats luggin em on a ladder.
Psalm 37:16

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2021, 08:56:50 PM »
So far so good. The post are much easier to set than I expected working alone. 

 



I punched the holes for the screws and a smaller set of holes for the pole barn nails in the brackets. It really works out well simply hanging the post from the excavator with a set of tongs, get it close and work it into the bracket by hand, then a short pipe clamp holds it enough to level it and keep it there while it fasten it. 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2021, 10:51:02 PM »
Slick system youve got there.
Psalm 37:16

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2021, 06:49:23 AM »
Thanks Mike, it's definitely a Johnny Cash-one piece at a time designed around the scrounged materials on hand building. 
"run what you brung" right 😆

Offline jpassardi

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #56 on: June 14, 2021, 08:36:19 AM »
The building is looking good.

Is that an amulet thumb? How well do those psuedo-mechanical thumbs work?

I have a large mechanical on my Excavator and a hydraulic on my backhoe. I built both of them, the hydraulic is quite an advantage.
LT15 W/Trailer
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Husky 372XP, 550XPG, 60, 50
Kubota RTV 900
Orlan EKO Wood Gasification Boiler

Offline 711ac

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Re: Working on a building.
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2021, 03:46:25 PM »
Yes on the Amulet thumb. I put it on soon after I bought the machine. Being a "gray market" machine I assumed that the proper valves and piping would be an expensive wild goose chase but this was probably 20 years ago and since then I've never had a problem getting parts from JD-Nortrax. At worst, next day for a few seals.
I'd prefer a hyd thumb but I have no complaints about the Amulet. The main reason is there's a fixed distance away from the machine that the tips of the bucket and thumb are both on the ground just like a rigid thumb, but this only matters with smaller rocks, sticks, etc.


 
The posts are set on the back half now. Just 7 left on the front half but there's a 18' opening that I need to build a header/truss kinda thing.




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