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Author Topic: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.  (Read 1572 times)

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Offline fluidpowerpro

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2021, 11:32:39 AM »
The Dynamic motor is bi-directional. When they talk about converting rotation, its relative to A and B ports. If for example you now put oil into the A port, and get CW rotation, you can convert it and now put oil into the A port and get CCW rotation. Some gerotor motors are also a little more efficient in one direction vs the other, so if your application runs primarily in one direction, it would be of value to have it configured to gain the extra efficiency. In most cases it does not matter.
Change is hard....
Especially when a jar full falls off the top shelf and hits the top of your head!

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2021, 09:01:16 PM »
Actually its not as bad as you think.  You can get a new variable piston pump with the spring centering shaft gear for $130 then $20 for one half of the splined lovejoy L090 coupler.. $100 for a new fixed gear motor plus shipping.. Maybe tax, then hoses and whatever sprockets or belting to couple the motor.  Maybe $40 for the AA pump mount.  Could drive it with gas or electric.  $500 will surely do new everything except the engine.  A reservoir, filter and cooler obviously needs to be rigged up too.


Old hydrostatic mowers used the best of parts but generally integrated the pumps and rears... Youd have quite a project separating them.  Walk behinds and zero turns did use independant components but most people arent gonna find a serviceable parts pile for less than new price at surplus center.


Jackshafting your current drum slower or dropping down in drum OD is still probably the way to go.
Ordered material to fabricate an 8 " cable drum. Still interested in your hydraulic solution.
Search fails to find a variable piston pump at surplus center or anywhere else for a$200 or so price.
Don't understand spring centering shaft GEAR. I thought pump would have a lever or something that operator
would use to control flow rate. I am out of my league. Thanks.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2021, 11:08:28 PM »
Items 9-8980 and 1-3615-9

@jim1934


Yes, youll have a shaft to control flow rate and direction of rotation completely variable by tilting an internal swash plate connected to the shaft. The angle of the plate dictates the plunger stroke and thus gpm output .

 You need that to be spring centering.  When you let off the action stops and it will hold your hyd motor in place.  Without spring center youd be hunting for park and creeping carriage when you miss it.
Psalm 37:16

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2021, 09:52:13 AM »
Mike- please take a minute and see if the JD transmission in this like would work.
It looks like a pump, motor and flow control valve in one package.
Thanks again. Jim
John Deere 312 314 317 316 300 Tractor Transmission | eBay

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2021, 12:09:47 PM »
Its a sunstrand 15, used in deere 140 and up into somewhere in the 400 series i believe. Also many cub cadets or maybe others, possibly bolens. I have a lot of experience with them and theyre unbreakable with 16hp or less.  But its not the route id go for that much money when you can buy all new for the same and that one might be spanked or all rusted up inside from sitting unused with oil only in the bottom.

  It is the golden standard of garden tractor pumps if that is the route you really want.  In that case...  Id find a dead deere or cub cadet hydrostaric parts machine. That way you get the whole rear with a rim or two and the driveshaft and fan hopefully.  

There will be a conventional ring and pinion on a carrier in the axle. and the pinion gear will have a large bull gear thats spined to float on the pinion shaft.  

That hydrostatic drive combo will be mounted up above the pinion and its output shaft will drive the bull gear so there is the rear end reduction ratio and the bull gear reduction ratio.  It is a very, very powerful complete axle assembly.  The carrier is made by dana.. Probably a dana 30. Big axle shafts and hubs etc.

You could weld up the carrier spider gears into a locker to make the rear into a right angle drive and then drill 5 on 4.5 wheel pattern into a sprocket.. Or use a cutout rim face to mate your belt or sprocket to for linking up to your existing cable friction drum.  

It will give impeccable feathering and control on the carriage, theyre a precise driveline, i built quite a mini construction tractor around one because its so good.


Also using the entire rear is 100 % self contained.  Youll get a fluid sump, cooling fan, filtration and filler with dipstick all in one.  Without the rear you have to make all that.  The pump input shaft is actually a thru shaft.. It can be driven from the front or the back. Use a 5/8 lovejoy coupler and drill out the set screw for a rollpin.  There is no keyway on the shaft, just rollpin holes.  


Youre engine can drive one side of the shaft and an auxiliary loader pump can be piggy backed off the other side of it. Thats how i put high pressure hydraulics on my deere 140.  
Psalm 37:16

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2021, 12:44:25 PM »
That's an interesting post. I am tripping over a pump and rear end assembly from a Wheel Horse D 160 and thought it would make a good vari. feed for an edger.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2021, 12:55:01 PM »
I had a wheel horse D200 that i flipped without ever trying to run it so i cant say what is inside those.  I cant even remember it actually.  Big machine i remember that. 


Deere 140 thru 4xx will pull an outrageous amount of stone boat or sled and carry so much carriage ballast that the rims leave cutter marks no matter how much air you put in.  I mean a pallet of 1" plate steel hung all over.  Where the engine is WOT and tires cant spin and the machine just stalls in place @ WOT but nothing moves and nothing breaks.  Very very robust.  Cub 1250/1450/supercubs etc as well as old bolens eliminator 1600 series are all the same.  Real tractors sized down. 
Psalm 37:16

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2021, 03:16:38 PM »
Thanks for the great info. Just bought a JD LT155 for $195. Engine shot. Hope it works out.
Sight unseen. Gotta go pick it up east of here.

Offline Dangerous_Dan

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2021, 05:06:44 PM »
I pulled this out of a Ransoms 72" mower.
The hydro drive also has a hydraulic pump built in for the steering and deck lift.
The steering cylinder now actuates the lock for left to right movement of the saw head.
The lift cylinder and the steering valve control the blade flip.


 
It's powered via belt by a 3 hp electric motor.


 
Then into a 10-1 gearbox.
With chain drive to the cable drum shaft.


 
The swashplate lever is directed to seat area with some linkages.


 
First you make it work, then you trick it out!

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2021, 09:03:20 PM »
Heck yeah.  Ransomes made good lawn equipment, as did lessco.  I think both were consumed by deere eventually ..?  Not certain. 


That is a good point that i forgot to add about the hydrostatic units having an auxiliary hydraulic circuit.  It is the charge pump flow regulated up to 500-750 psi for mower deck or power steering etc etc.  Mine no longer has it because that flow is being fed at about 10psi via pen spring in the regulator port, to the inlet side of my piggy back gear pump.  Ive got it relieved to 2300 psi or so i think. 


Psalm 37:16

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #50 on: June 10, 2021, 09:06:05 PM »
Thanks for the great info. Just bought a JD LT155 for $195. Engine shot. Hope it works out.
Sight unseen. Gotta go pick it up east of here.
Jim i am sorry but the LT series is much newer than the ones i am speaking about and probably isnt built anything like the ones i mentioned.  I know its numerically in that sequence but thats like 30yrs newer.  The 140H3 is about a 1970 machine and it subsequently went up to the 300 and 400 series probably into the 90s or so.  I am really sorry i didnt think ti mention that and i hope you can make use of what you bought.  Im feelin pretty guilty here. 
Psalm 37:16

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2021, 09:30:38 PM »
No need to feel guilty. I have asked to cancel the order.
I should of asked you before buying.
I am now confused about which ones to buy. Not your fault.
Don't know how to tell the correct one by looking at it.
Thanks for the alert.
Nothings easy :)

Offline mike_belben

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Psalm 37:16

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2021, 09:47:58 PM »














Psalm 37:16

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2021, 09:52:13 PM »
Theres the 140H1 and 140H3.  Then the 300.  Then i think its 314/316/318.  Ive not had or worked on any of them so do some research.  I know theyre bulletproof.  My buddies brothers 300. 





The h1 or h3 is just how many spools on the hydraulic valve.  Same pump and rear. Mine is an H6 now.  ;D





Psalm 37:16

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #55 on: June 10, 2021, 10:02:25 PM »
Thanks for the great info. Just bought a JD LT155 for $195. Engine shot. Hope it works out.
Sight unseen. Gotta go pick it up east of here.
Jim i am sorry but the LT series is much newer than the ones i am speaking about and probably isnt built anything like the ones i mentioned.  I know its numerically in that sequence but thats like 30yrs newer.  The 140H3 is about a 1970 machine and it subsequently went up to the 300 and 400 series probably into the 90s or so.  I am really sorry i didnt think ti mention that and i hope you can make use of what you bought.  Im feelin pretty guilty here.
Perhaps this representative of whatI bought https://www.ebay.com/itm/John-Deere-LT166-LT155-Lawn-Mower-Tractor-TuffTorq-K51B-Hydro-Drive-Transaxle-/124638895717?hash=item1d050e9e65

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2021, 11:42:45 PM »
You might be able to make it work.  No similarity to the one ive shown.  


Btw dont take it personal if your ebay link gets removed.. Just a forum rule. 
Psalm 37:16

Offline Jim1934

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2021, 06:14:44 PM »
Mike- looking at a Cub 1650 tranny axle unit. Suspect rugged enough for my application. $100. 1980 vintage.
Do you have any info on overall speed reduction from input of tranny to axles at full speed?
Prepared for replacing bearings, seals, etc. Broken gears and severe corrosion not so much. Lots of 1650's available.
Not sure if that is good or bad.
Any other comments?
If I ever figure out how to post pix I can make more sense.
Thanks, Jim.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2021, 07:45:48 PM »
1650 was a good machine, think i have one sitting in mass that someone gave me needing motor put back together. 

Its the same pump afaik but different housing.  Im not sure about the gear ratio.  3600 rpm input speed.
Psalm 37:16

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Running hyd motor in fwd and rev.
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2021, 11:57:27 AM »
You got me curious enough to go count splines.  

The pump comes out with 12t into a 72t bull gear that slides on a 12t pinion into a 60t ring gear.  So 6:1 times 5:1 = 30:1 fixed overall gear reduction between the hydrostat and the axle shaft on a deere 140.
Psalm 37:16


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