Jonsered 2165 Recoil exploded...sorta

SnoJetter · June 24, 2021, 10:27:40 PM

Hey guys - I had a new experience. I've a got new-to-me Jonsered 2165 that I picked up recently. Was told it was given the big bore treatment effectively making it a 2171 (doubt that has any bearing on the story, but full disclosure...) I was bucking up a large poplar after having dropped it so was 5 to 10 minutes into the run. Suddenly I felt something graze my chin and the saw shut off. My first thought was the chain broke and I had narrowly escaped serious injury once I realized no skin was broken. Then it dawned on me the position of the saw was such the chain couldn't have flown towards my face. I finally took a look at the saw and saw the recoil rope rolled up inside the housing. I then noticed the handle was gone. Somehow, the flywheel got ahold of the rope and the resulting tension sent the handle flying past my face. I never did find it.

The saw sustained some pretty good damage. The "turbo" duct was broken as was the "plate" where the plug wire and kill switch are routed. It also tore the kill wire up pretty good. After taking the recoil housing off, the rope pulley looked ok. When I removed it though, some plastic piece fell free that I cannot find, but the the pulley doesn't look as if there is any pieces missing or broken off. However, when reassembled, I cannot get the spring to engage to where it winds up tension. That tells me the recoil housing itself is either worn or damaged from the accident. So I'm on a parts search now, but here are my questions:

1) Anybody ever experienced the recoil rope getting caught up in the flywheel - and what could cause that? Once the saw was started, the rope retracted as it should and the saw ran for several minutes before this happened. I can't imagine how the rope became entangled. Kinda leery of this happening again once the saw is up and running...

2) What is the boss on the reoil housing supposed to look like to catch the spring? I need to figure out if I need a new reoil housing or if mine is still ok.

3) What size pull rope does this saw take? I have some bulk rope, but it appears to be a smaller diameter? And does anybody know specifically how much rope to use (I don't trust the remnants of the rope to be an accurate measure).

That's it for now, but might have more questions later.

Spike60 · June 25, 2021, 05:42:29 AM

Sometimes a 2171/372 will eat the rope like that. Knot sticking out of the pulley, worn pulley ID, missing air jet that also supports the shroud, busted case with the skinny support bar that goes across the top broken off are all things that are possible.

You likely do need a starter pulley; that little piece of plastic that you saw fall out is on the underside of the pulley and it's where the outside loop of the starter spring goes. If you examine the pulley you should be able to see where it broke off. The catch for the inside of the spring is molded into the starter cover; just need to clean it. The spring may be bent with a pair of needle nose pliers if needed to make sure it's close enough to engage with the cover. That air jet needs to be replaced as it provides support for the air conductor/wire holder. 3 ft of number 5 rope ought to do the trick.

SnoJetter · June 26, 2021, 12:48:48 PM

Thanks for the insight, Bob. I'll try to attach a few photos of the damage.

On the pulley, the spring fits snugly into the molded recess, but there must be a little nub the spring "loops" around (upper left). Is that correct? Sure seems like it would sit tightly in there as is without the nub.

The starter housing boss for the pulley looks pretty worn. That steel bushing must have had more plastic around it at one time. I don't see a catch for the spring anymore. I'm guessing a lot of this was worn before the accident happened and then some additional damage occurred as a result. I suppose it is likely the wear contributed to the problem in the first place!

I added a photo of the air duct and wire holder as well.

I assume a new starter housing is needed. Are the aftermarket versions any good or should I stick with OEM?

The IPL show the "complete" starter housing is 503692902. One site says this is superseded by 503692904. What is included in a "complete" housing? Pulley, rope, spring, and handle. At $37 that seems like deal, so I'm guessing not.

Spike60 · June 28, 2021, 01:05:56 PM

The $37 item is the starter housing, which is empty. The starter assembly, that includes the rope/pulley/spring is $90. Not 100% sure from the pic, but it looks like the little boss for the spring loop is broken off the pulley. And the inside of the spring needs to be bent a little closer to the center. Bought separately, the pulley and spring are $25 and $20. The housing does look a little worn, but may be useable. It's really the pulley that's not allowing the starter to work.

OEM vs AM? AM might be OK for occasional duty if you're like most of us and have a bunch of saws in the truck. But if you're really going to use and rely on it, OEM is the better choice.

SnoJetter · June 29, 2021, 10:02:26 PM

This saw will see minimal use. I expect to run only a few tanks through it each year for the occasional larger tree I come across. That being said, I'll probably look for OEM just because. I do have another 10 saws or so to choose from for the bulk of the work I do.

Speaking of OEM, there's a complete 2172 starter assembly on ebay right now - will that fit the 2165?

Is there a p/n for the full starter assembly? The IPL gave me the number above which translated to a $37 item when I looked it up here: https://www.ahupd.com/husqvarna-503692904

I can't get a very good photo, but it looks to me like whatever the spring is supposed to hook onto on the recoil housing is broken. That whole boss area just looks messed up to me. And there is a lot of clearance between the red boss and the bore of the white pulley. Seems to me like there should be a tighter fit...but maybe not.

Tacotodd · June 29, 2021, 10:58:37 PM

Where is uncle Al Smith when you need him?

Spike60 · June 30, 2021, 03:15:15 PM

Yes to the 2172 starter fitting your 2165.

Real1shepherd · June 30, 2021, 03:34:00 PM

Quote from: Tacotodd on June 29, 2021, 10:58:37 PM
Where is uncle Al Smith when you need him?

You have Bob for Husky questions.....you can do no better.

Use Al for questions about old MAC's.

Kevin

SnoJetter · July 03, 2021, 01:09:33 PM

I was able to snag that 2172 starter off ebay. Cost me $40, so hopefully it's in good shape - looked good in the photos. Still need the baffle under the starter and the turbo duct to complete the repair.

SnoJetter · July 11, 2021, 09:03:02 PM

I could use some help for the routing of the ignition wire. This is my first time inside of a big bore. I'm used to the smaller saws and this one looks to be a little different. On the 2152 for example, the blue ignition wire and black ground wire are run in parallel alongside the high tension plug wire on the baffle. In the picture above of that broken (gray) baffle from this 2165, there are three "grooves" to run those three wires just like the 2152. However, looking at the photo of the 2165 below it appears the ground wire is actually located at the black screw in the upper RH corner of this picture. The IPL is no help in how these wires are run. Assuming the ground wire is indeed underneath that screw, then that wire escaped damage. Could I get confirmation that the blue and the plug wire are the only wires running from the coil along the baffle. Secondly, how does the blue wire get routed to the kill switch? My assumption is it will enter through the hole just below the screw where the ground wire goes (again, assuming that is indeed the ground wire). And thirdly, to access the kill switch so I can hook up the blue wire, do I need to remove the carb and the plate underneath the carb or is there an easier way to access the switch?

Thanks!

Spike60 · July 12, 2021, 06:04:54 AM

Black wire is indeed the ground wire. Blue wire is supposed to go through the same hole as the black one. It will require removing the screw that holds the black wire and moving it aside to squeeze the blue one in. Once it's in there, just pop the switch out and hook it with a stiff wire or small needle nose to pull it out. The switch is just a snap in affair, so a small screw driver on the end and it'll come right out.

The baffle has always had that extra wire groove in it. Guess is that there was thought of using a 2 wire harness like on your 2152, but they never did.

SnoJetter · July 12, 2021, 07:19:03 PM

Thanks, Bob. That's what I was hoping to hear. Still waiting on the baffle and the turbo duct, and then I should have my saw back up and running.

SnoJetter · July 18, 2021, 07:34:25 PM

Got all the parts in and was able to reassemble the saw this afternoon. It was a pretty straight-forward job, but I took the time to tear the saw down further to give it a good cleaning. It's now back together and ready to go. Thank you for the guidance in this project!

One more question I'll ask here. When I bought this saw, the seller told me it had been converted to a 2171. Is there a way to confirm if it indeed has the larger p&c? I can't see much for markings on the cylinder other than it is a Mahle. Was Mahle used for OEM or would OEM have a Jonsered/Husqvarna p/n on it somewhere? If I can't use markings to identify the cylinder size, any measurements I can take without having to pull the cylinder off to measure the bore?

Spike60 · July 25, 2021, 08:04:15 AM

After a much needed week off, back to saws.

Mahle was the source for all the OEM cylinders for these saws. (until the XT versions arrived, which use jugs made in Sweden by Husky.) Just below where it says Mahle on the cylinder, there should be either a "48" for the 2165 or a "50" if it has the 2171 cylinder. Need to peak between the flywheel fins. The 48mm saws run very well and are underated. At least in your case, you still have an OEM top end. God only knows how many of them were tossed aside for Chicom kits by the "big bore" fad.

You take her out for a spin yet?

SnoJetter · July 29, 2021, 08:47:02 PM

Glad to have you back, Bob. I haven't been out to my shop much lately either. But I did sneak out this evening to have a look at that cylinder. There isn't much on it, but I did find a "50ZK6" low on the flywheel side. I assume that qualifies as the larger cylinder.

It's been too hot to do any cutting this month (me and heat do not get along) so I haven't worked the saw at all since the repair. But here's a photo of the mixed 2165/71/72. Maybe I should call this thing "The Mutt!" At least until i can think of a better name.

Spike60 · July 30, 2021, 06:53:41 AM

Yup, she's got the 50mm top end for sure.

I'm not a big fan of the heat either, and have done squat as far as cutting goes the last 2 months. But the temps around here are supposed to drop into the 40's tonight, so looking to shift into "saw gear" tomorrow. Older buddy has some dead ash that we are going to turn into firewood for him. He's 82 and past being able to run a saw, so "have saws, will travel"

Plus, I have very nice Jonsered 670 Super "V" that I want to try. ("V" for Jonnys is like "G" with Husky meaning heated grips.) I have "officially stopped" getting more saws, (sort of), but this saw has seen very little use and I told the customer a few years ago I'd be interested if he decided to sell it. So, the deal was consumated before my self imposed and not too rigdedly enforced official stoppage.

SnoJetter · August 01, 2021, 03:27:54 PM

Spike - I hope you had good weather to tackle the ash with your friend. After weeks of temps in the 90's, we had a high of 81 yesterday. It actually felt "cool" and I ended up splitting (by hand) and stacking the last 1/2 cord of ash I had cut early this spring. I never do work like this when it's 80 - at least not in the past. But when you're used to mid-90's it's amazing how the body adjust!

I had a few crotch pieces I had to noodle. Thought about using the "2165" to give it a run...but it's so clean right now, I didn't want to get it dirty for such a short chore. I pulled out another saw instead. Come fall, I've got some larger trees for the big saw.

Speaking of large trees, this thing has a 20" bar and I thought about putting on a 24 incher. But it's got these big west coast spikes on it that take up a solid 3" on the bar - I don't know that I see that much advantage to those spikes vs. the standard spikes. I think I'd prefer to put the stock spike on and gain a couple inches of bar capacity.

Spike60 · August 02, 2021, 08:50:41 PM

It was perfect cutting weather over the weekend. Lower 70's and an easy breeze to keep the bugs away. Gonna be in the 40's tonight. How's MN warmer than here? Ran one of my 630 Supers most of the time. Saws and splitter all ran fine after sitting for a few months. Losing the brakes on his UTV added soem fun to the transport phase. Good thing we were on level ground.

The west coast spikes look cool, and they have their place, but I prefer the standard ones. And just as you're thinking, why lose those couple inches of bar length?

donbj · August 02, 2021, 10:28:51 PM

Quote from: Spike60 on August 02, 2021, 08:50:41 PMThe west coast spikes look cool, and they have their place, but I prefer the standard ones. And just as you're thinking, why lose those couple inches of bar length?

I'm curious about this. I'm not a faller or professional but have quite a bit of experience. What's the west coast spikes for? I have all stock spikes on my saws and as long as they have some bite that's all that matters. I'm on a saw forum that many guys put aftermarket spikes on that are half the size of the darn saw:D, seems to be some kind of fad to me more than anything. Not criticizing just curious.

Spike60 · August 03, 2021, 06:38:25 AM

Don, I think the idea is that they are for trees with thicker/heavier bark where some extra bite is needed. And since they run longer bars out there, a little loss of bar length doesn't matter. But I'm not really sure on thiis and we need someone like Kevin to jump in here @Real1sheperd how about filling in the blanks here?

But in the hobby world on these sites, I think it's mostly about style, along with the full wrap handles. Some of my younger tree svc guys do ask for the larger dogs though. I call these guys my "young guns", and as they spend more time on the web, they get a little caught up in "the look". I usually have a 562 and 572 set up with the full wrap and big spikes and 24" or 28" sugi-hara. Put "562 west coast" on the tag, and these young guys grab them. Not poking fun at these guys by any stretch here. On the contrary, I think it's great they have this enthusiasm for the saws.

Real1shepherd · August 03, 2021, 09:50:58 AM

Quote from: donbj on August 02, 2021, 10:28:51 PM
Quote from: Spike60 on August 02, 2021, 08:50:41 PMThe west coast spikes look cool, and they have their place, but I prefer the standard ones. And just as you're thinking, why lose those couple inches of bar length?

I'm curious about this. I'm not a faller or professional but have quite a bit of experience. What's the west coast spikes for? I have all stock spikes on my saws and as long as they have some bite that's all that matters. I'm on a saw forum that many guys put aftermarket spikes on that are half the size of the darn saw:D, seems to be some kind of fad to me more than anything. Not criticizing just curious.

Large bark timber;helps to dig in and bite during your felling cuts. They make a pivot point wherein you can rock your saw into the cut by pushing down on the top wrap handle with one hand and lifting the trigger handle up. You can get by with smaller dawgs for buckin', but it's impractical to change out or have a different saw for that task, so we leave on one size from felling.

Just like with full-wrap handles. If I'm trying to use a saw without them, I keep grabbing for something that isn't there while felling. You can compensate of course, but it's not the same when flipping your saw on its side.

Kevin

Tacotodd · August 03, 2021, 09:56:06 AM

I found that out this weekend about the handle, but I got it done 😅

Real1shepherd · August 03, 2021, 10:03:34 AM

Yeah, I expect most saw owners have never had big dawgs or full-wraps. And they way they talk here, proud of it. It's like optional tools or extensions that you really don't need if you've never had the real use for them.

Kevin

Tacotodd · August 03, 2021, 10:40:25 AM

I'm debating on getting BOTH things from Madsens because I never know when I'll run into that type of situation again, and I just do this stuff for fun. I don't even work in the woods...but I wish that I did, once upon a time. exclaim_smiley

Oh, to be a 20yo again.

SnoJetter · August 03, 2021, 02:04:10 PM

Quote from: Spike60 on August 02, 2021, 08:50:41 PMIt was perfect cutting weather over the weekend. Lower 70's and an easy breeze to keep the bugs away. Gonna be in the 40's tonight. How's MN warmer than here? Ran one of my 630 Supers most of the time. Saws and splitter all ran fine after sitting for a few months. Losing the brakes on his UTV added soem fun to the transport phase. Good thing we were on level ground.

The west coast spikes look cool, and they have their place, but I prefer the standard ones. And just as you're thinking, why lose those couple inches of bar length?

Great to hear you had a productive weekend! And survived a run-away UTV!
I don't know what's going on with the weather. I don't know about NY specifically, but it seems like there's been a lot of rain out east in general. Here in west central MN, it's been nothing but hot and dry for quite some time. And we've been getting a constant dose of smoke from fires in Canada. As one meme online has stated, I'm getting tired of smoking three packs of Canadian Wildfires everyday! I've spent more time in doors than I'd like. It cools off a fair amount that the late evenings are quite comfortable; enough so that me and my wife would enjoy a walk together...except it's frowned upon to leave our little kiddos in the house unattended.
I measured my 20" bar at a hair over 17" of usable length...I was wondering why it looked so short! ;D There is a "cool" factor in those spikes, but I think if I'm going to spend $80 on a 24" bar (I'm only guessing on the cost), I'd like to have pretty close to 24" to work with.

Quote from: Spike60 on August 03, 2021, 06:38:25 AMDon, I think the idea is that they are for trees with thicker/heavier bark where some extra bite is needed. And since they run longer bars out there, a little loss of bar length doesn't matter. But I'm not really sure on thiis and we need someone like Kevin to jump in here @Real1sheperd how about filling in the blanks here?

But in the hobby world on these sites, I think it's mostly about style, along with the full wrap handles. Some of my younger tree svc guys do ask for the larger dogs though. I call these guys my "young guns", and as they spend more time on the web, they get a little caught up in "the look". I usually have a 562 and 572 set up with the full wrap and big spikes and 24" or 28" sugi-hara. Put "562 west coast" on the tag, and these young guys grab them. Not poking fun at these guys by any stretch here. On the contrary, I think it's great they have this enthusiasm for the saws.

I work with everything from aspen and balsam with its thin bark to large ash and oak with some pretty thick, furrowed bark. I've never had an issue with the standard dogs...but at the same time, maybe I don't know what I'm missing out on! I've tackled plenty of trees with my Johnny 455/535's some of which have no dogs at all (I'll bet 90% of this family of saws I see has no dog - I suppose this could be the result of having the bucking spike on the outside of the chain cover and could easily be lost/misplaced over time). I notice a number of folks selling custom spikes for various saws that certainly look outlandish to a flatlander in fly-over country. They look like a great way to customize or accessorize an otherwise ordinary machine.
I will say in looking at those monster spikes on this saw, I'm assuming there would come a day when one or more of those points will find it's way up against my leg, or my hand will forget they are there! Replacing them would reduce that risk!

Speaking of which, I'm seeing a couple different options for the standard spike in the IPL for this saw. Looks like one is just the spike itself while the other includes what looks like a chain catcher. Seems the chain catcher version would also act as a stand to pitch the bar up somewhat and provide an extra measure of keeping the chain out of the dirt.