Covid isn't the only game in town

[Patrick NC]

This past weekend I was feeling a little under the weather. Headache,  fatigue,  no appetite,  etc. I figured it was just a simple sinus infection so I took some ibuprofen and carried on like usual.  Well, Monday morning when I got up for work I was so weak that I could hardly stand and ached all over. So I called in sick and scheduled a covid test.  Results were negative. Went home and slept all day after dosing up real good on NY QUILL. Still the same on Tuesday so doc said take another covid test.  Also negative.  She called in some antibiotics and scheduled an appointment for today.  Turns out it's bacterial pneumonia. She gave me a steroid shot and a z-pac and I'm finally feeling a little better.  Doc says it might be a couple of weeks before I back to normal.  Scary stuff.  I don't remember ever being this sick before. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Patrick,

   Sorry to hear you are/have been on the puny list. I hope the pill pushers get you straightened out quick and properly. Stay safe, drink lots of orange juice, eat plenty of grits and hopefully you will be out making sawdust with the best of them real soon. 

   I wonder if cedar sawdust causes pneumonia?

[SwampDonkey]

Years ago I had a bad flew, not pneumonia but pretty close, but I was out for 2 weeks, sore all over, couldn't eat, coughed up thick flem only had Sussex ginger ale (before Cadbury ruined it) for days. Smell of food would make me puke. Stuff tasted really weird to. It was nasty. I was eating in the second week. I bet I coughed flem for 2 more weeks.

[mike_belben]

buddy of mine is an ER nurse, sees lots of people die from covid and says pneumonia infection is biggest killer. when my kid recently got covid nurse buddy told me have him sleep on his stomach and 3x a day to do a breathing exercise where you inhale slow and steady until overinflated, and then with a wide open mouth, blast out all that air like blowing out candles, until you about gasp from underinflation.

  the idea is to change out all the co2 for fresh oxygen because anaerobic bacterias are generally all toxic and oxygen should help kill them, and also to cough out any gooey lungers possible which is also full of bad bacteria, fungi or whatever else.  so it was 3 times a day a set of 10 reps.  and tons of vitamin C and water.

the kid got over covid in 3 days to his moms 8 or 10 so id like to think it helped. i loaded him full of elderberry syrup, blueberries, cranberries, OJ etc.

[Patrick NC]

buddy of mine is an ER nurse, sees lots of people die from covid and says pneumonia infection is biggest killer. when my kid recently got covid nurse buddy told me have him sleep on his stomach and 3x a day to do a breathing exercise where you inhale slow and steady until overinflated, and then with a wide open mouth, blast out all that air like blowing out candles, until you about gasp from underinflation.

 the idea is to change out all the co2 for fresh oxygen because anaerobic bacterias are generally all toxic and oxygen should help kill them, and also to cough out any gooey lungers possible which is also full of bad bacteria, fungi or whatever else.  so it was 3 times a day a set of 10 reps.  and tons of vitamin C and water.

the kid got over covid in 3 days to his moms 8 or 10 so id like to think it helped. i loaded him full of elderberry syrup, blueberries, cranberries, OJ etc.

That lung exercise sounds like what I was told to do with the ibuterol inhaler they gave me. 

[Don P]

 I wonder if cedar sawdust causes pneumonia?

I believe it can cause a type of it, but it isn't bacterial. It didn't cause it but it might bring something nasty back. Locust is right up there on rough on your lungs too. You're probably in wear a very good mask condition for awhile.

[SwampDonkey]

Could be hypersensitivity pneumonitis like a form of farmer's lung if the sawdust carries some kind of mould in it.

Farmer's lung is usually from dust born from mouldy hay or grains.

[Ianab]

buddy of mine is an ER nurse, sees lots of people die from covid and says pneumonia infection is biggest killer.

Pneumonia isn't a specific infection, and can be directly caused by the Covid virus. Pneumonia is a condition where the tiny air sacs in the lungs have been infected by "something". Could be a virus / bacteria / fungus. They get inflamed and fill with fluid, and can't transfer oxygen any more. Naturally if this gets bad enough, you die. 

So yes pneumonia is the most likely way that Covid will finish you off, but you can still develop pneumonia from all the normal infections. It's also possible to develop secondary infections after an initial viral infection as your body is weaker and there is damaged tissue waiting to be infected. India saw a lot of "black fungus" lung infections after Covid, because the steroid treatment used to reduce the inflammation from Covid also suppressed the bodies ability to fight off the fungal infection.

 

my kid recently got covid nurse buddy told me have him sleep on his stomach

That's something the Drs have discovered during the course of treating patients. Usually if you are on oxygen they would have you propped up on your back, and for some reason that's not ideal. So I believe treatments now involve rolling patients over on to their stomach periodically. Seems to help clear the lungs better? It's one of those little things that's allowed better treatment of patients, and a better survival rate than the first outbreaks. Not a magic cure, just a slightly better method of treatment.

But Patrick is correct, all the regular infections that can put someone is hospital are still lurking out there. Over the winter we had an outbreak of Respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), which put a lot of kids in hospital. Like the bacterial infection this virus can cause symptoms similar to Covid, and testing is really the only way to be sure. 

[Ianab]

I wonder if cedar sawdust causes pneumoni

That would be called "hypersensitivity pneumonitis".  More of an allergic reaction to the chemicals in the wood. You know how if you have an allergy to something your skin can become red and inflamed? Now imagine that happening deep inside your lungs after breathing in some sawdust. 

Not quite the same as an infection, but quite real and potentially dangerous. 

[WV Sawmiller]

Don & Ian,

   Sorry, I was just rattling Patrick's cage a little bit because he is typically sawing and showing pictures of real pretty cedar that makes me envious. I was being facetious in the comment and not really serious about cedar being the cause.

[Don P]

I've been told I'm too short, the fast ones go right over  :D.

[YellowHammer]

When I had my hip replaced they made it a point to me, several times, to not be allowed to lay in the bed, and so made me sit in a nice "Archie Bunker" style chair most of the day.  They said that they could have a healthy person lay in bed, on their back, for three days and on the fourth they would have pneumonia.  

[SwampDonkey]

Link to info on farmer's lung, a form of hypersensitivity pneumonitis I mentioned above. Interesting is the percentage of farm workers who where found to have been exposed to certain disease agents that cause it, when testing.

Farmer's Lung : OSH Answers

[Ricker]

Pneumonia is nothing to mess with, especially when you get some age on you. 5 years ago I know of 4 guys about 70 that caught it.  They were men's men. Workers their whole lives, still in good, healthy shape.  Not a one ever fully recovered.  A uncle and 2 guys have passed away within the last year after constant health issues.  My father, a logger his whole adult life, is holding on.  Just a shell of himself, one problem after another, gone from a solid 180 pounds to a bag of bones tipping the scale at 110.

[SwampDonkey]

Legionnaires' disease is another nasty pneumonia, it can infect a room of people with poor ventilation. It has struck a couple places here in the last 2 years.

[kantuckid]

Squeeze bottle nettie bottles are the wood workers sinus & lungs best friend! # parts kosher, non-iodized salt to one part baking soda. Do it as soon as you stop work! Use it prior to any Rx nasal sprays. 
 Walnut fine dust only tears me up most. Pine much less, ERC is nasty too-I think OHSA lists it. Osage is bad one. 

[Don P]

One thing with a netti pot or nasal rinses, especially for those of us on our own water supply, boil the water first, let it cool then mix and use. You can grow out some nasty bugs in your sinus that your gut has no problem killing.

[kantuckid]

I'm far, far from a great medical source :D but have never boiled my water for nettie pot bottle. I've use tap water only for years- maybe I'm lucky? Actually, I used non-treated spring water for long time until we got city water. 
From curiosity I just now read a few items and some say use distilled or boiled water, some don't say. I thought the salt did the trick on germs? but what do I know, not much :D 
A pulmonologist RN told me once that the main concern is to use non-iodized salt as it's kinder to sinus tissues than iodized.
My BIL will only use the store bought salt/soda mix but I do my own as it's not really a crucial accuracy item, just do 3:1 salt to soda using a teaspoon into a zip lock bag. I have learned to rinse well before bedtime so as not to have waterboarded myself before I lay down my head. 
 

[Ljohnsaw]

So I called in sick and scheduled a covid test. Results were negative. Went home and slept all day after dosing up real good on NY QUILL. Still the same on Tuesday so doc said take another covid test.

Interesting that you could get two tests so quickly.  My daughter (30) lives at home part time, the rest at her boyfriends.  They both work at a feed store - he delivers hay and feed, she works the retail counter.  So she has lots of exposure.  Anyhow, when she went into work on Thursday, 12/23, the boss looked at her and another coworker and sent them home.  She slept all day Thursday and Friday till noon or so. 

She came home hacking and wheezing.  Great, now I'm gonna get sick.  Sure enough, Christmas afternoon started to feel pretty run down/run over.  Worse on Sunday.  My fishing buddy says you HAVE to get a covid test.  I said, why?  There isn't any treatments.  He said oh, yes there is!

So I go online and answer a bunch of questions and the soonest I could get a covid test was Wednesday afternoon.  So I called in.  Twenty five minutes on hold to get someone that said they can't help me but will put my call through to someone who can.  Another 10 minutes on hold.  The advice nurse reviews my medical history and says I'm not at risk.  So I ask point blank, If I do test positive, do you have any treatments available? No.  So I ask myself, what's the point of the tests?

My symptoms are lower back/kidney pain, under my shoulder blades pain.  Hacking cough with some mucus, headache, dizziness, and a low fever of 100.1 (my normal is 97.5).  No shortness of breath, just mild pain when taking a deep breath.  No wheezing that I can hear but the last time I had pneumonia, the doc heard something.   So the nurse scheduled me for a phone appointment a 1:50 today to see if I should come in for a chest xray or something - possible pneumonia?

[SwampDonkey]

I'm far, far from a great medical source :D but have never boiled my water for nettie pot bottle. I've use tap water only for years- maybe I'm lucky?

Mother never has, the water line here has a high flow filter and also runs through a water softener. Good old well been used over 100 years.

I think a COVID test up here is up to a 3 day wait when in self isolation.

[doc henderson]

John, if you are less than 10 days of beginning of symptoms, they can give you monoclonal antibody infusion, that gives you neutralizing antibodies.  so yes, the is a treatment.  If you are immunized and or have had the disease, you will prob. be fine.  the antibody treatment can stop the cellular spread and cut the course short if you get it soon enough.

[Ljohnsaw]

if you are less than 10 of beginning of symptoms

I don't understand that statement.  Can you clarify?

the antibody treatment can stop the cellular spread and cut the course short if you get it soon enough.

That's just it.  When is "soon enough"?  I understand you need to wait for there to be enough to detect, but all the online places want to hold off for 3-5 days from onset.  Maybe because I have 2 vacs, I'm good to wait a while longer?

Edit:  I re-read.  I think you mean less than 10 DAYS.  So getting the monoclonal treatment has to be in the first 10 days?  Man, I felt like crap the 2nd day!

[doc henderson]

sorry I worked all night, so it made sense to me.  yes, the monoclonal needs by rules to be in the first 10 days of symptoms.  takes a few hours, even though the infusion is 20 minutes.  It has to sit a while after being mixed, and you are observed for an hour after infusion.  It stops the cell to cell spread of the virus by covering the spike protein with an antibody so it cannot attach.  same sort of antibody you would get with the vaccine or the disease covid.  sooner is better as fewer cells get infected.  soon enough is that you do not get as sick or die.  rule is before you are hypoxic, or in the hospital from covid.  If the Omicron is mild enough, we may stop monoclonals after it predominates in our county.  still delta here.
here is data from Sedgwick County (Wichita 45 miles away) vs reno county where I live and work now.



 

 

I hope the new Omicron is a cold. we have been overwhelmed daily.  we see on average 60 patients in 24 hours throughout the year.  We 104 in the past 24 hours not counting the dozen who got up and left after waiting for hours.  same number of rooms and staff.  so, we promote giving the Monoclonal, so you and others do not end up coming to see us.  this is how we eat.  

[doc henderson]

if you do a home test, or at a little clinic, you may not be told about, and they may not know about the monoclonal.
there is some evidence that getting it after you are really sick may flog the immune inflammatory response and make you sicker, just like early steroid put you at high risk, and only help after your lungs are splotchy with pneumonitis.

edit: thanks, I added the word "days" to my prev. comments.

[21incher]

Thanks Doc for all you have done.  I don't  know  how you keep going.  My wife  just found  out a good friend  of ours has the covid pneumonia talked about here.  Younger then me was in good health fully vaccinated with  a booster.  Has been in ICU for 3 weeks and they now say he will survive and go to rehab in about 2 weeks. It's  at the point where just about  everyone  I know  has had or died from covid.  I sure hope there is a end in sight soon. Thanks again  for all you do Doc Henderson. 

[Ljohnsaw]

Well, my test results are in and I tested positive.  Not a big surprise.  The "new" protocol is quarantine until all 3 items can be checked.
1) 5 days passed since onset (was 10 yesterday),
2) no fever for past 24 hours with no meds and
3) symptoms are reducing. 
So tomorrow marks 5 days and the other 2 I pass so I guess I'm out of quarantine tomorrow?

My daughter never got tested but her onset was a few days before me so she is probably clear by now.  My son is about 2 days behind me.  I got him a test scheduled for Monday (the earliest at any testing site around here).  But he will probably be all better by then.

So, we were all double vaxed and it looks like that made it quick to pass but for a day or two pretty bad flu-like.

[SwampDonkey]

How long did it take to get a test John? I know it is up to 3 days here. And in Maine they are saying 5 days after symptoms. I just read that on one of the state's websites.

[kantuckid]

Hey Doc, some of us already know how you "eat" in a hospital.  :D It can be seriously funny to screw up a simple hamburger as they manage to accomplish, until it's not.
 That said, during my entire work life of many, many situs, the only ones where people brought me food were my Momma and some farmers wife's, and the military did sometimes. Mostly I ate out of a lunchbox that I packed myself and nobody brought me a thing-not a soda pop, a pie in a box or something supposed to pass for soup in a styro cup. 
At Ohse Meats, we got any sandwich meat for free and people brought in a loaf of bread to pull from. 

Stress is the greater concern we all have for you &your people there, not food-hang tight and be safe!

[doc henderson]

you hit the nail on the head.  Stress gets high on the 5th day of doing the impossible.  food seems to be a stress reliever.  I was not overweight till residency.  they would call for an admission, and if you still had food on your tray you could say, "when I get done eating".  hard to go 12 hours and not eat.  It helps if you feel like the admins care a little.  Thanks, Kantukid, and all for your support.  Doc.

[Ljohnsaw]

How long did it take to get a test John?

First symptoms were 12/25.  Tried to get something scheduled on 12/26 but earliest was 12/29.  Called in and waited on hold for over 40 minutes.  Got a phone consult scheduled for 12/27 which resulted in a test scheduled for the afternoon of 12/28.  Results returned late 12/29. (+)  And technically, I'm past the quarantine period today 12/30. :

[SwampDonkey]

Well 3 days isn't bad. I know the wait is a PITA because life is like on hold. But the time from symptoms to test is about as good as it gets most places. The way I read it, there has to be an incubation of the virus to get an accurate result anyway. Hang in there.

[Ricker]

I had a close contact last month and had to cancel a endoscopy at the hospital that was 2 days later.  The hospital told me to wait at least 5 days before I got a test.  Said since I was vaccinated it would take that long to build up n my system for the test to detect it.  Stayed home 6 days had the test they called next day negative, no more self quarantine needed.

[Ed_K]

 That food looks a lot better than what I saw for 2 days in the hosp. Ok, I'm lost on the anti-body and time of giving. This is goin-a be long. My youngest BIL's son brought covid home to everyone still living at the farm. He got it from the hy-way dept he works at. My BIL and wife have diabeties and other stuff to really be worried about. The both of them, well every one up there wouldn't get the jabs. They both got real bad to where his oldest daughter came and took them to the hospital. She had the jabs do to working with the elderly. BIL was done as far as I could see but the doctor gave them something and after a week they started getting better. Neither of them went on to the air thing down your throat. Is that something different than the mono anti=body y'all are talking about?

[doc henderson]

Ed if they stayed in the hospital (were sick enough) theygot an antiviral and steroids.  with respiratory support.  the ventilator is only used when you cannot breathe on your own.  if they saw the doc and were sent home, they got the antibody.  the antibody is an infusion of already made antibodies to stop the spread.  it was originally thought the virus had a 5-to-11-day incubation period.  I am not sure that the vaccine prolongs the test positivity, but it could as the test being positive is based on viral load (how many viral particles are there in the nose).  My PA did tests 3 days in a row as her whole family was +.  she did not feel well, but not real sick.  she is 3 months pregnant.  she tested positive, and she is now back to work.  We are short on test kits, so they may not want to check you on day one after exposure.  If tested early it gives a false sense of security, and you may go back to work and expose everyone.  We have had people test positive in the ED and call all their friends and family and 5 people show up in the ED to be tested.  We do not waste testing on non-symptomatic people who were exposed and hour ago.  Military guys will get this, but we do what we can with what we got.  We cannot rely on a big hospital down the road to save our asthma.  everyone is on diversion.  Doc

[SwampDonkey]

A serious side effect when your heart surgery is cancelled 6 x's and your deemed a lower priority.

Family angered by 'no service disruptions' claim as surgery cancelled a 6th time | CBC News

[doc henderson]

Wichita's hospitals on the brink amid latest COVID surge | The Wichita Eagle (kansas.com)

Dr. Mosley is a friend and colleague, and Dr. Moore is a med school classmate.

[kantuckid]

The media and political attention to medical staff shortages interest me as a retired tech school educator who worked in schools that trained nurses, respiratory therapists and several types of first responders and various certified aide areas. I began that work in 1974 and there were shortages then as now. Larger discussion as to why, both then and now after covid effects. Fact remains that shortages among medical professions is an old story. Sadly, common sense tells you there's no quick fixes either as cases multiply in real time. 

Hardly life threatening for myself, like the cardio example above, but I'm currently leading a "one lower molar lifestyle" :D because of covid factors on availability of services back when it was mostly all shut down and now, they simply cannot catch up. They even switched me from maxillary facial surgery dept to the Prosthodontics dept to speed things up but no live action yet. Makes it worse that the one molar is below a marginal upper molar thats already broken and repaired. I'm on borrowed time as they say.
My knee doc's doing his thing now and caught up I think.      

[Stephen Alford]

   In addition to the Sambucol (black elderberry) . black elderberry is a medicinal plant it is poisonous to humans and requires processing before it is safe for consumption. The expectorant Helixia (ivy extract) appears to provide a bit of relief as well.

[kantuckid]

I'm into DG brand Mucinex, swig every nite, sleep tite ya old fart... :D

[SwampDonkey]

Buckley's Mixture, old time standby. ;D

[Gary_C]

My mother used to rub Vicks all over our chests, pin a towel around our neck and feed us cod liver oil. Ah the good old days.  :

Over the Christmas weekend my two teenage grandkids (vaccinated) both came down with coughs and fevers and my daughter scheduled them both for testing early last week. But then my wife got a deep cough and a slight fever Monday night so I took her in to the ER Tuesday and they tested her for everything with one nasal swab. Turns out she was negative for everything but Influenza Type A. So after some more tests concerning her heart she was sent home after treating her with one Tamiflu and a prescription for 9 more. The problem was that every pharmacy in the area was completely out of Tamiflu including the Mayo pharmacies. The next day I was able to fill the prescription at another Walmart pharmacy in a distant town. The grandkids also tested positive for Type A so there is more than Covid going around. My wife and I both got our flu shots but daughter and her kids did not. So far I have escaped.    

[kantuckid]

Google says it's NLA in USA? Lawyers say it chokes people or something like that.

[Old saw fixer]

Still available as far as I can find.  I always kept a jar in trunk of the county car, decomp odor you know.

[doc henderson]

Vicks vapo-bath is available with the irritant eucalyptus smell.  the rub had an oil Vaseline base, and it could migrate into the airway and cause an oil pneumonitis theoretically.  never saw a case.  we put Vaseline in the nares for dry nose/bloody nose.  this is why mineral oil is no longer used for constipation.  have you ever noticed when you are trying to sleep and have a stuffy nose (congest nasal mucosa) and hear a noise that startles you like someone is messing with your front door?  you get a burst of adrenaline, and it constricts the capillaries in the mucosa, and you get sudden opening of the nares within seconds of the sound.  It is part of the fight or flight response.  the lower side is usually more congested due to gravity.  roll to the side that puts the stuffy side up.  hot and spicy makes you nose water.  smell is a form of taste.  think about that next time you get a whiff in the powder room.  

[kantuckid]

Hey Doc, thanks but I can only sleep on one side these days... ;D Better something, than nothing, they say. 

Here ya a covid "game" tidbit:  Our county librarian posted a few days ago on the county info FB page, she runs, that people who lost family members from covid deaths could get the funeral paid for by our federal government. Went on to say her Mom's recent funeral they had paid the entire cost minus a $100 out of pocket. 
 I googled the topic and FEMA website came up with the fact that they had been doing just that for funerals covid related, but stopped as it was only an early pandemic program and no longer in effect. Our tax dollars at work huh? 
I EAT Vicks when I have a sore throat, plus the chest thing which does seem to work to some degree. Lately m y clothes smell like Vicks in fact. One jar we have is off brand and seems to have lost it's pizazz based on smell test? 

[doc henderson]

"or has it"?      or do you have.....  COVID!  good luck

[kantuckid]

"or has it"?      or do you have.....  COVID!  good luck

My regular local ARPN and I agreed that I did not, but I stayed home and fixed on had what my GD had when we visited them in TN. Or there's the other version that I had what another son had with similar symptoms. No one in our family nearby, has had covid.  I am well as we speak but was close to bronchitis. 
No loss of taste, smell or appetite. Never a fever. or headache either. Tight chest and globs of green goobers that came quickly and now gone. 
Now I'm back to PT on my shoulder and happy to be able to brush the back of my head again, place objects into a microwave, etc. ;D.
 Rotator cuff is responding well to PT. Tendinopathy of Rotator Cuff is the doc diagnosis-my PT says I had a cuff tear as well. My PT guy is VG in fact. I learned to know a good one from my previous PT events, one a seriously messed up full tear. Hands on, you see who has that magic touch and who's pretending. Lots of old farts at the PT place, some active people, some not so much and showing it too. Walmart's scooter riders club people?

[Walnut Beast]

Had a meeting with a guy that's been in and out of airports all over. Had Covid early on and has never had it since. Never had the shot. The CEO has had three shots and has Covid now and has had it in the past while vaccinated. He has also had relation that have had the shots and had a heart attack like other members have reported. 

[doc henderson]

heart attacks happen every day.  I do agree that there is a tendency to clot easier after covid or the shot, as a function of inflammation.  I am telling folks to consider an aspirin a day after the disease or the vaccine.  Just like anyone at risk for heart attack or stroke.  an aspirin makes your platelets less sticky.  the effect is permanent to any platelet exposed to an acetylated salicylate.  ASA is acetylsalicylic acid.  the life of a platelet is 7 days, and the newly made ones are not affected, so it is taken every day.

[doc henderson]

I have not had it that I know of, but I think I will get the capsid antibody test to fine out.  over a year of in my face work with it.  I may have been asymptomatic.  

[Walnut Beast]

That's interesting and amazing! 

[doc henderson]

At my age you write it off if you do not feel great for a few days. 8) so, who knows?  
I would feel most protected if I had been both vaccinated and had the disease.  they are saying moderna works better against omicron, but it may just be the way any research was done.  

[HemlockKing]

Vicks vapo-bath is available with the irritant eucalyptus smell.  the rub had an oil Vaseline base, and it could migrate into the airway and cause an oil pneumonitis theoretically.  never saw a case.  we put Vaseline in the nares for dry nose/bloody nose.  this is why mineral oil is no longer used for constipation.  have you ever noticed when you are trying to sleep and have a stuffy nose (congest nasal mucosa) and hear a noise that startles you like someone is messing with your front door?  you get a burst of adrenaline, and it constricts the capillaries in the mucosa, and you get sudden opening of the nares within seconds of the sound.  It is part of the fight or flight response.  the lower side is usually more congested due to gravity.  roll to the side that puts the stuffy side up.  hot and spicy makes you nose water.  smell is a form of taste.  think about that next time you get a whiff in the powder room.  

I get that what I’d call “sudden jolt to life” right before sleep and I had just figured it was instincts from back when we slept in the woods as cavemen, if you heard a threat, you needed to be awake fast and ready. Good to know the science behind it too .  The smallest little sound right before I sleep shoot electricity right through me it’s amazing

[kantuckid]

Thats a today's new item on the jolt before you fall asleep. I get no such jolts. Sometimes when my book falls on my face hard I'll sort of wake up :D
As to was it covid when I recently dealt with a tight chest and globs of gook from my throat-I'm cured as we speak and never had much in the way of covid symptoms anyway. 
What I do have is the stir-crazy disease until this snow is gone and gets out of single digits so I can heat my shop, get to FL with the trailer stuff loaded and down the hill which at this time is not possible. 
Snow and cold is the game for now  other than my KC Chiefs play today along with U of KY cats play GA. 

[Stephen Alford]

   Earlier in this thread Black elderberry was mentioned. Because there are lots of folks visiting the forum  thought I should mention that it is a medicinal plant. It is poisonous to humans. It requires a process to be safe for consumption.  

[SwampDonkey]

Black elderberry is safe, when cooked, red elderberry is not. If it weren't I'd be long dead by now. ;D I don't eat bark, seeds, wood or green berries. Berries are cooked, not eaten raw, that is all that is required.

[Chuck White]

Wondering, is this the same Elderberry that grows in my area?

I've eaten these and have a friend that makes wine with them!

[SwampDonkey]

Wondering, is this the same Elderberry that grows in my area?

I've eaten these and have a friend that makes wine with them!

There's a couple of wild species between east and west coast and cultivars sold in nurseries. The black variety doesn't grow wild near home here, but I have found it 30 miles south of here along woods road berms. It flowers in summer, where as the red variety here blooms before the snow is all gone.

[SwampDonkey]

They told us ostrich fiddlehead ferns were carcinogenic a few years ago. What a crock, been eaten for centuries.

[HemlockKing]

They told us ostrich fiddlehead ferns were carcinogenic a few years ago. What a crock, been eaten for centuries.

We eat those here. I hear people call them "monkey meat" around here

[SwampDonkey]

And back on topic, yes there have been influenza cases throughout the pandemic in Canada. And you only get the reports of ones where folks are so sick they need attention, that's when you become a case. Your not a 'case' until you see a doctor. Mild illness, just get your Buckley's and Tylenol as usual. Thus, no case, no tally because your not laying in a hospital or waiting 6 hrs for treatment.

By the second week of Jan 2020 over 12,000 accum. cases in Canada, by the end of Feb 35,000 cases, end of March over 45,000 accum. cases.

By the first week of Jan 2021, 14,811 accum. cases in Canada, by the end of Feb 38,355 accum. cases, end of March 49,641 accum. cases.

By the second week of Jan 2022, 474 accum. cases thus far, the only time cases significantly dropped during the pandemic. And that's with increased testing.

[jrsloan1]

I have not had it that I know of, but I think I will get the capsid antibody test to fine out.  over a year of in my face work with it.  I may have been asymptomatic.  

Doc, it would probably be interesting for you to know if you had it. Might even put some of the puzzle together.  I had it in January 21 and was over it with very mild symptoms in a few days. Not like the out of the blue extremely low playlets count I just spent 4 days in the hospital getting over and then the sinus infection dang near before I  got home!!   But, 2 test in 8 days are negative for Rona and flu! You stay safe and healthy Doc.