long term storage of dry goods.

[SwampDonkey]

Well, A) if you look at it as once in 5 or 10 years, the dry goods storage is my go to option. It's for an emergency only. But B) If your going to make it from your own and the necessary stuff to put it up for storage and are planning 2 years out and rotate new every season that is a different way of looking at it. Then it's both emergency and day to day or week to week use. I'd eat any darn thing in an emergency, better than starving. :D Option B is not going to be cheap. If stuff is over 3 years old it will be tossed.

[doc henderson]

I also was told by my Assistant scout master, that he thinks it will get worse in the near future.  I am not a "prepper", but plan to be prepared.  He works in a Kroger warehouse.  looking back over the past 2 years, some stuff should have been anticipated by many and was not.  Some I could not believe like the TP shortage.  The biggest issue is the whole country and world for that matter having similar needs all at once.  it is exacerbated when the need becomes perceived, and then people hoard.  The advertised shortage makes all of us a little crazy.

[doc henderson]

We end up wasting some food.  We like the concept of buying in bulk, but not always good at using it all up.  so not really saving money.  We were raised poor, but really do not flinch at the checkout stand.  Not bragging but admitting we lack the motivation that some others have.  It makes us lazy.  We could have short term emergencies like ice and power out, or tornado.  I doubt we would have the zombie apockolypse, but it seems more possible than ever with the pandemic and the political landscape.  

[doc henderson]

been busy and had originally missed your post Paul.  looks cozy and I like the "Mr. Coffee" pot on the far end.  great bulk ideas.  love the pics.

[SwampDonkey]

We used to grow all our own as a nation, only 2 generations ago. We not only have more choice of fresh stuff, but we have all the stuff full of chemical preserves. Before WWII the chemical tainted stuff was not common and not that far in the past. Then the toxicology in the 40's and 50's improved and filled the shelves with doctored up grub. But they also had to chemical preserve it to feed an army.

One thing I have not fathomed yet, is adding stuff to dates and figs. Never needed it for centuries. In fact, I can still get them without when sourced from other countries outside of NA. Next we'll need something injected into the apples. :

[Southside]

Apples are actually one of the most chemical intensive crop produced. 

Beautiful background Paul.

[Paul_H]

I've been watching Germany in particular and they are in for a real hurt. Wood stoves were sold out months ago and firewood prices have sky rocketed and seasoned wood is almost non existant while their energy security has been severely compromised. They are the powerhouse of the EU and within a year have been put in a vulnerable position.

Energy Crisis Sees Stoves, Dry Firewood Sell Out in Germany (articlefeed.org)

Those that have been watching and preparing are in great shape but those that ignored the warnings are scrambling. The original post recognised that supply chains are compromised here in North America which may mean that the local Walmarts might not be able to continue to provide easy stocking for personal food security. Britain endured almost 10 years of hard rationing and learned to produce their own food during WWII. Pre war they only produced 33% of their own food and were extremely vulnerable.
Our business has seen many supply issues and we have been told it may be into 2024 before it gets back to normal. I don't think so, there has been no indication of that happening so far in real world.
Crop yields in most of the world are down and storing prepackaged food is a very good start but with the unrest we're seeing worldwide it is probably a good idea to consider becoming a little more independent from the system and keep one's supply chains a little closer to home. 

Or not  :D :D

[doc henderson]

we have made hot water on our stove in the house, but no real food.  In our scout troop we have transitioned to heating with wood instead of diesel/propane on winter campouts.  used to use the diesel MBUs for heat in the big tent.  At one point before campouts, I would be asked to make sure we had commercial charcoal briquettes, and propane for the burners to heat dishwater and start the charcoal. the charcoal was for the Dutch oven cooking.  really!  you need propane and charcoal as well as a butane lighter to do primitive cooking.  what are we teaching?   now it is all wood heat and cooking.  so quiet now.

[Paul_H]

been busy and had originally missed your post Paul.  looks cozy and I like the "Mr. Coffee" pot on the far end.  great bulk ideas.  love the pics.

It will be a sad day when my coffee isn't waiting for me when I get up! :D  When the power is off in the morning I either use a little woodgas camp stove or dig out the compact white gas stove and run a peculator.

[SwampDonkey]

Apples are actually one of the most chemical intensive crop produced.

Beautiful background Paul.

Not mine. And they are not injected with preserves. :D

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah coffee, I just loaded up this week as I have always done for years on sales. ;D All we ever did to make coffee when camping was use an old quart coffee can, snare wire for a handle, boil it good, and pour. Often it was the Coleman stove, but sometimes just coals of a fire, hung onto a stick. You don't want to make coffee with a fire still spitting embers to land in it. Maybe some do like them to, I don't know. ;D

[doc henderson]

I still like percolator coffee.  the drip, and now the Keurig is convenient.  we can do all different style and flavor of coffee.  but on a campout.  one gallon pot, on a rack over the coals or flame.  



 

[SwampDonkey]

I like my stainless steal perk every morning to doc. But when your without, you find ways. ;D :D

I learned from grandfather who worked in his younger years with an axe and bucksaw spending nights under lean-tos or skinning deer or gutting fish and resting in rustic log hunting camps and no well water, just a dip pan or coffee can dipped in the creak. ;)

I can remember years ago, in an area we fished a lot. Logging roads where just opening up the country for easy travel. Great effort was made to find nice springs you could draw water from. It could be at an old abandoned logging camp, in the cut bank of the road might also be a pipe stuck into sand with water flowing or just a crystal clear creek with sand on the bottom that shined like gold in the sunshine.

[kantuckid]

We used to grow all our own as a nation, only 2 generations ago. We not only have more choice of fresh stuff, but we have all the stuff full of chemical preserves. Before WWII the chemical tainted stuff was not common and not that far in the past. Then the toxicology in the 40's and 50's improved and filled the shelves with doctored up grub. But they also had to chemical preserve it to feed an army.

One thing I have not fathomed yet, is adding stuff to dates and figs. Never needed it for centuries. In fact, I can still get them without when sourced from other countries outside of NA. Next we'll need something injected into the apples. :

I am a date and figs lover. It began back when as a child my Dad got many Christmas gifts from trucking companies via his job and many were gift baskets of fruit-dried and fresh and smoked meats, etc.. We even gave them away to other family members. Back then fresh stuff was far, far more seasonal so a true treat indeed! No South American pears back then, etc..
 Also, I had a CA uncle and one of his brothers would make a point of bringing us dates & figs when he came home from his visits and he'd stop to see us with the goodies. 
There is zero reason to buy a date outside NA! Mine all come either via ebay or direct from growers in bulk. Our best figs & raisins come from Nut's Com. where we buy our coffee beans to brew what I'll call my sissy coffee. I buy almonds from CA in 5# bags and they freeze easily in the shipping bag. Pecans I get from FB Marketplace and home growers, not the pricier big guys. Nuts freeze easily. 
The date guy I found this last order is an older couple and a fairly common senior couple near Palm Springs area that grow dates on small acres. They have over 40 varieties! One of my sons is Vegan and has his own stash of the last ones I bought. They are not a date you'll ever buy in a grocery store other than maybe a CA famers market they are shippers only. I keep a fip lock bag of dried CA apricots, figs and dates in my lunch kit I take out everyday along with pecans & almonds. 
The technique is bite a piece of dried fruit then toss a nut in yer mouth and you got a high energy treat that keeps nearly forever hot or cold for snacks on the fly. Guess how those bedouins stay alive out there on the desert.  ;D
In my mind one looming issue with this world supply thing and whats available etc, is that people are too damned lazy to cook or prep food for daily use. here in Appalachia we see the poorest of the poor buying ready to eat meals daily. Another version is our local "Senior center". I met an old friend at the famers market this summer. He asked me nicely if I ever go to the Senior center and I say never as we eat at home and I'm not a socializer either, me or my wife. He says he east supper and dinner there a lot. They are subsidized meals I help pay for and this man is currently travelling the entire USA with his wife eating out and enjoying life but at home I'm buying his food. Give me a break!!!
At that Farmers market there are THREE means that poor or seniors get free stuff via coupons. I pay for all three of those coupons via taxes-and remember we live on fixed income teachers retirement checks not deep pockets folks. I routinely see seniors at that market using free coupons who have teacher retirement income exceeding $100,000 per year. Folks, our food scene is seriously screwed up. 
Another one that the TP covid thing brings to mind is "other paper products". We commonly see people at Walmart with more paper products in a cart than we'll use in a year! We don't wipe our nose on a sleeve or not use paper towels but we sure use less than what we see! 
Other than canning maters and few other things and a huge freezer full we grow for our kids and selves and buy the rest as we need it  and all is well. 
Inflation is the true enemy at our food stores right now, not what can I store for later.
 We in America are so fortunate to have what's loaded now onto out grocery shelves, too bad many don't know how to take full advantage by cooking more. But I'll pass on fresh CA Nectarines @ $6 a lb-and choose a $2.12 lb fresh pear or cheaper apple. FWIW, our squirrels eat ALL of our two pear and 10 or so apple trees fruit. Yes, I tried to kill em all but they win so far...

 

[kantuckid]

Apples are actually one of the most chemical intensive crop produced.

Beautiful background Paul.

Not mine. And they are not injected with preserves. :D

Not so long ago you could raise apples w/o chemicals here in KY or my native KS. Having traveled widely up in colder climes I can tell you that I've brought home a PU truck load of wild, roadside apples, (abandoned farmyards and along fences and some cheaper farm market apples all from New England states and I do have a double barrel, antique cider press I've had for years that I wish I had some of your apples to squeeze! A roadside wild apple in KY looks like a worm fest. I don't mind a few but once the fruits purely nasty, I'll pass. My wifes grandma used to go on and on about how the apples had become so bad from those days when they depended on them in her youth and had no sprays to begin with. We still dry them but they are local bought ones not my own heirlooms I wish I'd get to enjoy!

[doc henderson]

So...  How do the fruit raised squirrels taste?   :D :D :D

[21incher]

Like chicken 😋.  We find pick items that have multiple  uses that you currently buy. Like a sack of flour that can be used to bake bread, make spaghetti and noodles, make pizza crusts, make pie crusts, batted fish and many more things. Another good item is an assortment of dried and canned (goya) beans of different types that can be used for soups, ground for dips, chili,  even make a meal with  rice. Look for good dates on the cans and if you don't  use them donate them to your  local food pantry before they expire. 
 You also are in a good position being a Doctor that should  be able to barter for items if it gets  really  bad. With Japan, England,  and China  dumping US bonds possibly being followed  by other countries higher interest  rates can affect growers, farmers, and the supply chains that all rely on credit. I wouldn't bother with the mre type meals that last 25 years  because the government has enough  to go around if it gets  that bad. One thing we also have are some of those  life straws that can help purify water for drinking. 

[taylorsmissbeehaven]

Like you said Doc, Im not a Prepper either. I do buy in bulk at Costco and sales at the grocery. We had a miller episode a couple weeks ago. Had pasta, flour, and rice packed in heavy zip top bags. It was no match for them. Only stuff that made it was in jars. Mary found some cool stackable containers on Amazon. Gonna give them a try when they get here. Your not saving anything if you have to throw a bunch away : 

[kantuckid]

Like chicken 😋.  We find pick items that have multiple  uses that you currently buy. Like a sack of flour that can be used to bake bread, make spaghetti and noodles, make pizza crusts, make pie crusts, batted fish and many more things. Another good item is an assortment of dried and canned (goya) beans of different types that can be used for soups, ground for dips, chili,  even make a meal with  rice. Look for good dates on the cans and if you don't  use them donate them to your  local food pantry before they expire.
You also are in a good position being a Doctor that should  be able to barter for items if it gets  really  bad. With Japan, England,  and China  dumping US bonds possibly being followed  by other countries higher interest  rates can affect growers, farmers, and the supply chains that all rely on credit. I wouldn't bother with the mre type meals that last 25 years  because the government has enough  to go around if it gets  that bad. One thing we also have are some of those  life straws that can help purify water for drinking.

Like chicken-not hardly! Unless your talking dark meat as squirrels are dark meat. The younger they are, the more tasty but honestly they are a pure pest for us. I kept a shotgun on the dining room table all spring having declared full out war. Their wariness and ability to breed won out. it's not unusual up here on our hill to 2's and 3's running all over the place. 
For some weird reason, they decided to begin to chew on my log homes front extension log corners to hone their teeth. They haven't made structural damage but have wreaked havoc. Our home is a sort of "monkey island" in the woods for mostly greys and a few fox squirrels and even some half breeds. 
I ate them out in KS in my youth (mostly squirrel pie) but much preferred rabbit legs & quail.
 
Bartering is mostly old school mentality and not seen much now days? Docs billing's are not done by an old time office worker or the docs wife, they are done via specialist who know the insurance routings and it's not something a doc matters much with? 
MRE's I know all to well and as long as our grocery has stuff to cook, perish that thought... : 
As we find ourselves being told we need to wean from fossil energy, the idiots might want to consider where our fertilizers come from? Can't grow much wheat on wind & solar energy. 
Grains: There are no longer sales in a grocery on flours or pastas, so on. A few prices are better than others but storage even when frozen is not a forever thing. 
Goya beans are VG but cost more than most any other brand seen on any USA shelf. We buy private brands always, exception is a select few items where quality varies. 
Many easy to prepare foods are in somewhat varied supply but mostly they come and go and we watch for the "come into stock days". One such item is SeaPak breaded butterfly shrimp. A $10 box makes 4 total, easy fast meals for my wife who's already done her share of feeding people. Potatoes are much higher but when you consider fast food taters and such they are so much cheaper that it's a non-discussion overall.
Interest rates are the larger concern than bonds for most of us? My kids retirement accounts are the worry for current reckless government spending. 
If Europe ever begins to start bearing the immense cost of Ukranian war weaponry, then it will get a bit more tenuous. We, the US taxpayers are carrying their water right now for Ukraine to stay in the fight.   

[kantuckid]

Membership stores test my little brains ability to justify? Paying to be allowed to spend money at a big box store is totally illogical, not a privilege one should pay for? maybe a social club where you're keeping out the riff raff, so to speak, but a store you pay to spend in?  Much is a container too large for any sane purpose? Pickles in huge jars, boxes of stuff more like a military kitchen or NGO feed the masses place.
Please don't even try to make me think it makes sense. My SIL, who lives alone and is far, far from a bulk buyer, says it (Sam's Club) saves her money on gas but truth is she goes out of her way to buy it at prices higher than I pay to begin with.
Even if you have a business there are many sellers who'll sell to you w/o membership. I do know a couple in MX who own a motel where they had no other choices for supplies but thats not here where many exist. Big box stores are seeing direct web sales kill that mega store mentality?

[beenthere]

kykid
It must work for them. People don't enter with theft in mind, or the gangs of kids that run through and wreck or steal things then run out quickly. People don't end up at checkout without at least the store credit card. Likely not like whatever wanders in to do mischief or harm in other store settings.
And the goods are quality.
Must work, because these stores do a ton of business.

But each of us has choices.

Looking up (google) how to keep bugs out of food, there are some containers that work. Plastic is not listed as one of them. Tupperware didn't look good, as well as plastic ziploc bags.

[21incher]

I agree with  been there. The main reason we belong to and shop at Costco  is the quality  of people  that shop there and the employees.  Even if their prices were higher then everyone  else we would  still remain  members.  We average $350 a year in cash back every  year that easily covers the $119 membership fee. I save approx $4k every time I upgrade  hearing aids. Gas and diesel  are over 50 cents a gallon less then everyone else plus an additional  4% cash back. It's a very senior  friendly place to shop with no screaming  kids or nasty people.  They double  the warranty on all electronics and appliances.  My 75 inch Samsung  smartTV came with a doubled warranty  plus 5 additional  years full coverage with replacement if it can't  be fixed for a total of 7 years for free. The Kirkland products  are held to a very high quality  standard and affordably priced.  Their fresh seafood we buy a lot of is flown in fresh and higher quality  then any other in the area. The savings  are great but what makes the 75 mile round trip worth it to us is the shopping experience and old fashioned atmosphere. .  

[SwampDonkey]

The only thing I see missing in most stores, even COSTCO, is Purity corn meal for making corn bread. :D We can get a cereal type corn locally, has to be cooked, but works just as well. No, we aren't members at COSTCO but shop once a year maybe on my cousin's account. I see no advantage on food. We have as good a quality of food in the big chains as they have there, and nothing to be saved dollar wise. My cousin goes in because she works near one in a hospital.  We also know someone that goes for propane. But she isn't saving because the gas burnt to get there, she's 100 miles from there. Makes no sense to spend $5 to make $3. :D I have a couple senior relatives near there to and they rarely go. Most seniors up here are not buying big loads of groceries even if there is a perceived savings. What I see big loads of is someone wheeling two carts full of soda pop. :D :D

I've seen no difference in the people shopping in Superstore or Costco, nor do I hold any grudges.  I've never seen a bunch of kids case a joint and run off with grub yet. Sounds more like something to see in a small corner convenience store in a city. Mom or dad with their pay check treating the kids with comfort food for the weekend, can't be all that bad.  :D

Costco up here is anything but old fashioned. ;D

Also the dried 25 year stuff isn't to live off of, it's for emergency. I'd say good luck depending on government to supply you. Depending on where your at, you may never see much of it. And if it came right down to it, it won't last too long. Governments have said for years there isn't that big of a backup supply, just a few weeks, certainly not 3 years worth. Maybe some people can live awhile off flour and maple syrup. :D

Our Superstore is the busiest grocery store, Sobeys is the other chain, prices tend to be a little higher over there.

[bigblockyeti]

I think Costco is the number 1 retailer in wine & diamonds in the US (world?) because their model works.  Proximity is a bonus for us, it's 18 minutes and 11 miles to get there, many mouths to feed and butts to wipe further justify it.  As much as I like snacking my way through lunch on a Saturday, that's when I least prefer to visit as it's just too crowded and if anyone is likely to get run over in the parking lot, it's probably going to be on a Saturday.  We need a new sofa and loveseat, we've got ~$5K into ours now and the kids are beating the crap out of both, I can get a new sectional of comparable quality for $2K even in 2022 dollars but I'm holding out until the kids can stop continuing to detroy what we have.  I don't mind buying large quantities of something if we'll end up using it before it expires and the deals can't be beat when something goes on sale.  Gas used to be a solid $0.30 cheaper than everywhere else but now it's only ~$0.10 cheaper, likely the same % as fuel prices have fallen (not yet far enough).  We don't buy 80lbs of flour or 50lbs of rice but when frozen chicken breast goes on sale, I measure how much room is available in the freezer.  Some of their baked goods aren't super deals and can expire quickly, their cakes are great and offered for the price of the ingredients it seems.  Coffee beans are cheaper than anywhere else & paper products usually are too.  They have decent clothes for the kids and while the men's clothes selection isn't great, what they do have is quality stuff for less than even online.  When we move, the cooktop, BBQ, fireplace starter, clothes dryer & double oven will all be propane.  I can legally carry up to five 100lb bottles to the next closest Costco down the road (and we'll be further in the opposite direction) to get filled for less than half what delivery would be for a permanent above ground tank.  Even 80 minutes and 67 miles round trip will be paid for in savings with the 2-3 times per year I have to drive to the further Costco.

[Southside]

It's like anything else, you need to be aware of what you are shopping for.  Not everything is bulk sized, frozen lasagna for example - comes in a two pack, you don't have to cook both at once you know.   :D