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My New lt50 things not looking good

Started by widetrackman, May 26, 2024, 11:53:02 PM

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widetrackman

As you guys know my Mill was delivered to Ms.asc and incomplete. The Mill was delivered a couple weeks ago with about 12 hrs. Ran ok by Tech that delivered it. I have not time to run since delivery but have been looking over the mill to see if every thing looks right after the feasico with WM. I was checking out the installion of the debarker when I noticed the wires connecting to the debarker did not have rubber boots on the terminals and then noticed the red and black wires were opposite what the sticker indicated as to +/-. The debarker blade does rotate correctly (trowing the chips away from operator) However I DO NOT LIKE THIS. The Ms. tech had trouble installing the debarker and had it running backwards, trowing circuit breakers that he said did not control the debarker. After I left and later he ordered wiring, solenoid, etc, and delivered a week later. Bottom line I am not sure about the debarker. To make things worst I threw a 7 foot level (yea yea overkill) on the bunks, they are not level, some high some low (front to rear of mill). Should I have to do a total alignment to validate it's aligned to spec's on a mill I have never run, really. If WM will not send someone to straighten out this mill (other than Ms.) I am considering having them pick the Mill and get me another one properly configured and next off the assembly or refund my $60,000. I will call WM Tue and see what they have to say.

MattM

Don't just go by the level, you need to move the head over each bunk and measure the height from the blade to the bunk. Measure on the left and right side in roughly the same place on each bunk.

They probably are off, my first lt35 had 1/2inch difference between some bunks and they all had to be adjusted. On my second it was much better, I only had to adjust 2 or three of them. 

I love my WM but there sure are a ton of issues with these new ones, thank god they have the best customer service and get warranty parts out quickly (at least where I live)
LT35HDG25

widetrackman

Quote from: MattM on May 27, 2024, 05:48:27 AMDon't just go by the level, you need to move the head over each bunk and measure the height from the blade to the bunk. Measure on the left and right side in roughly the same place on each bunk.

They probably are off, my first lt35 had 1/2inch difference between some bunks and they all had to be adjusted. On my second it was much better, I only had to adjust 2 or three of them.

I love my WM but there sure are a ton of issues with these new ones, thank god they have the best customer service and get warranty parts out quickly (at least where I live)
Yes I understand how the adjustment should be made . I only used the level to get a quick idea if there would need to be adjustments as there seem things are not right. In my option if you start tinkering with blade heights you screw up the acc 2 calibration So dose WM expect me to realign a Mill that should have been in alignment before shipping, that I have not run since delivered with 13 hours after I paid them $60,000. They need to send someone to get this Mill right. :uhoh:

Old Greenhorn

Well, the bed alignment is somewhat subject to how and where the mill is set up. I realize you 'know the gig' from your prior experience, but you need to make sure it's not just the FAO's, ground settling and such like that. Things also move in transit. Think of the hit the machine takes when it goes over a pothole at 70mph. Adjusting the bunks, is different from the head. It pays to put a little time in and set your mill the way you want/need it to be. You don't say how much the bunks are out when checked with the level, and that might make a difference.
 As fare as you swapped leads on the debarker motor. This relates to all the revs I mentioned in prior posts. The swing arm lengths were one of the things messed with in those revs and MANY folks had that problem with the breaker trips happening constantly. I spent a lot of time figuring our ours and the WM tech that I got threw his hands up. So I finally asked if reversing the motor direction might work because it seemed to me the blade was pulling itself into the log rather than riding along it. The tech had no idea and suggested I give it a try, so I did and our problems went away. Now I trip a breaker once a month or so from normal issues. This is why, when you wrote about that problem, I told you I had a solution for you/them. Apparently this change has still not been documented fully at WM, but seems like some mils are delivering with the change, Like Ted's. Having the wires swapped is not big deal, it's a DC motor, but yeah, there should at least be a boot on that positive wire. Make a new label(s) for the terminals or peel the existing one off and turn it upside down and tape it back on.
 I am neither blaming nor defending WM here, I am saying it's now your machine to learn and get the way you want/need it.
 It might just be me, but I have always wanted to know everything I can about the equipment I own or operate so that repairs and preventions become easier and faster. So I take the time to go through that adjustment process myself, always believing that because it's 'mine' I will take the time needed to do a better job than anyone else could. Along the way, I will see and learn 'the weak spots' where I should look first when problems pop up later. Becoming 'one with the machine' sounds silly, but it has long been my philosophy and allows me to narrow down problems very fast in a  lot of cases.
 Probably this post is not want you want to hear, but it is another way to look at it. If I didn't take ownership of several of the problems on our machine and figure it out for myself to set it right, we would still be limping along.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Southside

There is a slight crown to the frame of the mill when it does not have a log on it, she settles in with the log and the outriggers to flat is the design assuming the mill is on flat ground and the middle outriggers are set right.  That's why you measure from the  band down to the bunks to get the proper height of each.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

SawyerTed

Set it up, run it an hour or two with good logs and evaluate it!  Any adjustments shouldn't be done until you know the machine better.   

Otherwise you're borrowing trouble. 

It took several hours to get my LT50 dialed in like I wanted.  It was fine tuning mostly on the guide arm and guides. 

I usually setup on my concrete driveway for any alignment my mill needs.  Make sure the middle FAOs are firmly and evenly set and not carrying too much weight when you set it up. 
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

widetrackman

Quote from: Southside on May 27, 2024, 09:17:43 AMThere is a slight crown to the frame of the mill when it does not have a log on it, she settles in with the log and the outriggers to flat is the design assuming the mill is on flat ground and the middle outriggers are set right.  That's why you measure from the  band down to the bunks to get the proper height of each. 
No problem with mill being level, got it level with the overkill 7' level. Then put a 3000 lb log on then took it off, still level. So no problems. 

widetrackman

If I start adjusting the head to bunks do I screw up the accuset 2 calibration. I would not wish to do calibration as I might make things worst even though  there are instructions.

widetrackman

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on May 27, 2024, 08:58:22 AMWell, the bed alignment is somewhat subject to how and where the mill is set up. I realize you 'know the gig' from your prior experience, but you need to make sure it's not just the FAO's, ground settling and such like that. Things also move in transit. Think of the hit the machine takes when it goes over a pothole at 70mph. Adjusting the bunks, is different from the head. It pays to put a little time in and set your mill the way you want/need it to be. You don't say how much the bunks are out when checked with the level, and that might make a difference.
 As fare as you swapped leads on the debarker motor. This relates to all the revs I mentioned in prior posts. The swing arm lengths were one of the things messed with in those revs and MANY folks had that problem with the breaker trips happening constantly. I spent a lot of time figuring our ours and the WM tech that I got threw his hands up. So I finally asked if reversing the motor direction might work because it seemed to me the blade was pulling itself into the log rather than riding along it. The tech had no idea and suggested I give it a try, so I did and our problems went away. Now I trip a breaker once a month or so from normal issues. This is why, when you wrote about that problem, I told you I had a solution for you/them. Apparently this change has still not been documented fully at WM, but seems like some mils are delivering with the change, Like Ted's. Having the wires swapped is not big deal, it's a DC motor, but yeah, there should at least be a boot on that positive wire. Make a new label(s) for the terminals or peel the existing one off and turn it upside down and tape it back on.
 I am neither blaming nor defending WM here, I am saying it's now your machine to learn and get the way you want/need it.
 It might just be me, but I have always wanted to know everything I can about the equipment I own or operate so that repairs and preventions become easier and faster. So I take the time to go through that adjustment process myself, always believing that because it's 'mine' I will take the time needed to do a better job than anyone else could. Along the way, I will see and learn 'the weak spots' where I should look first when problems pop up later. Becoming 'one with the machine' sounds silly, but it has long been my philosophy and allows me to narrow down problems very fast in a  lot of cases.
 Probably this post is not want you want to hear, but it is another way to look at it. If I didn't take ownership of several of the problems on our machine and figure it out for myself to set it right, we would still be limping along.
I assume the Tech when installing the debarker had the wiring wrong as it was running wrong direction. He changed the wiring and the rotation was correct but debarker would trip the wrong circuit breaker every time it entered the log. After ordering and installing parts they delivered the Mill and debarker ran ok at delivery. However the sticker is pointing opposite what is for correct rotation wired.I would think Lesson would not make this mistake, but? This whole thing seems crazy.

SawyerTed

There is a relatively easy and short procedure for calibrating the Accuset 2 to the correct height 

It involves setting the blade 12" above a bunk as measured with a rule or tape.  Then there's a few steps in telling the head it's 12" above the bunk.  

It's described in detail in the Accuset 2 manual.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Magicman

Quote from: widetrackman on May 27, 2024, 02:30:09 PMIf I start adjusting the head to bunks
This subject has been discussed many times in the past here on the FF.  My recommendation and also from the other replies, is to NOT make any bed adjustments, and even then, ONLY until you have talked with your selling dealer, Tim.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Dave Shepard

If WM is scrambling to get parts that debarker motor may have come from a standard head debarker. Same motor, different sticker.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Old Greenhorn

Well, the first thing I would like to know is what you mean by "it was tripping the wrong breaker"? That is a curious statement and if accurate implies a very different issue. But the devil is in the details and one must be very specific when discussing these things.
 Second, Dave could be spot on correct. It's just a labels/sticker.
 Your assumption I would respectfully say, may not be correct, but we will never know without all those details. After suffering through and solving the tripping breaker issue a year ago with the help of folks here, I have some strong suspicions. I cannot prove these one way or the other without comparing an LT50 (standard) and and LT50 Wide side by side. There is a difference in these debarker swing arm lengths to get the blade in the right range to reach the log. Because of that difference, the wide version puts the debarker blade in a different attack angle and the blade must rotate to throw the chips away from the operator, as yours does. In the standard version (I believe but cannot verify) the blade may throw chips toward the operator and work just fine.
 So there is a lot going on here. The tech that installed your debarker likely wired it as marked, which might be fine on the standard, but we know does not work on the wide. Not only is there confusion about this among us users, but also within a bit of the WM staff. It's not a clear cut issue and they don't seem to come up against it often enough yet. The WM reps I have talked with this about at shows deny there has ever been any issue with breaker tripping that they have heard of. They also say there are no problems with swing arm failures, which is also a non truth that they have since improved with a design revision on the welded pin. This is not helpful and keeps users in the dark. But I am not blaming them. All design and build companies have these issues and they can take a generation to get settled, especially during periods of maximum emphasis on filling a high rate of orders.
 There are a lot of moving parts in getting these machines out and working well. If it were me, and it has been me, I would just put my time, effort, and frustration into tuning up my machine to be perfect for me. But it never hurts to keep your WM rep involved and providing whatever he/she can to help get you into production.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

widetrackman

Well checked the bunks per manual 15" blade to bunk and only the 3rd bunk was high. Now for a new serious problem. While checking the bunks with motor idling a low squeal like a belt, but nothing discerning as I moved down checking bunks. When checking the last bunk and all of a sudden the small squeal was screaming. By the time I could get the key off there was a large cloud of black smoke smelling like burnt rubber, well I know what this means; a smoked drive belt caused by what, who knows. Keep in mind that this idling for the bunks is the only time the mill has been run since delivered about 2 weeks ago with 13 hr's. This just SUCKS 

Nealm66


Nealm66

I've got an lt50 supposed to be done in October and this whole shabang isn't making me feel very very confident

John S

Tow it back to where you bought and have them make it right.  Bed rails, debarker, smoked drive belt!  Too much, bring it back!
2018 LT40HDG38 Wide

YellowHammer

What kind of engine does it have?  Is it a diesel?  If it goes into a regen at idle, the idle speed will increase and burn the belt as you describe.

Whatevcer engine you have, when the engine is on, the drive pulley is always spinning, and since the main drive belt is loose but always on the rotating pulley at idle, there is always friction of some level unless the blade is engaged.  So extended idling is not a good thing for the drive belt.

I'm not sure on an LT50, but there are a couple studs or a flange or something that stands out from the drive pulley assembly, and their job is to bend the bend the belt around the drive pulley so that the belt will slowly be gripped by the drive pulley and cause it to very slowly rotate or tick over and keep from flat spotting or burning the belt at idle.

Take the main drive cover off, and look to see that the belt is slowly, barely ticking over, rotating even at idle. If it is not, make the adjustment so that it is.  Otherwise, the belt will smoke from the friction on the non moving drive belt and continuously rotating main pulley.

 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

MartyParsons

Hello. 
    The motor from Lesson has the tags WM does not install these. 
There should be rubber boots on the wires.

The bed rails are set from blade to bed rail. Putting a level on bed will not ever be flat. Always set up bed with pressure on front and rear leg. Measure from tight blade to each bed document on bed rail with marker. ( the only bed rails I ever adjust are one that customers adjust before calling WM) 

The Mark III debarker takes time to adjust the feel of the in / out , watching the blade spin, when it slows tap the switch out , it will trip breaker until you get accustomed to how it works. WM just started using a new design blade and it works great.

Hope this helps . 

Sorry I am away on vacation this week. 

Thanks! 
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

Andries

Ownership of a spanking new mill should be a wonderful experience, but we can all feel your disappointment as you get to know your mill.
Venting about a less than perfect new machine is understandable, but I hope that you graduate to the next level where you come to a really good working knowledge of the hardware in front of you.
We on the Forum are your allies and WM has built a stellar reputation on customer support. I've never had a working day when something hasn't gone quirky and needed a problem to be solved. There's not too many weeks when I'm asking myself: "Am I a mechanic or a Sawyer?"
It seems that if I'm working, then something will jam up or break on me.
Loader hydraulics, chainsaws, blowers and planers. There's a million little things that need to be managed.
Folks that are involved in this business or heavy hobby, have moved to the next level . Look at YH, he's jumped in with a very likely answer to what happened to the drive belt. Most of the folks that have operated a mill for a long time would open it up, see what's going on, then call the dealer for confirmation and how to avoid a regen at idle in the future. Also, have they got a drive belt on the shelf that they could offer up at this turn of events?

OGH was making a point of this when he pointed out that true ownership isn't defined by buying, it's about working up the tools, skills and network to operate your equipment with a smile on your face.

You've bought the equivalent of a Steinway piano, one of the best made. Ownership is the first step, being able to tune it as the years go by is the only way to keep on making beautiful music.
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

barbender

 100%, Andries. I feel the OP's frustration on having issues on a brand new machine, but I also know that sawing is as much about being a "millright" and problem solver, as it is making boards.

 Personally, I'd fight through it and keep WM abreast of whatever issues you're having. From my own experience and what I've read from others here, they'll make it right.

 I've experienced the smoked drive belt on my mill once. I have the (bad) habit of starting my engine up on cold winter days and letting it warm up while I do other things. I say bad habit because sometimes there is a problem and I'm not right there to shut it off. Well in this case my belt started dragging for some reason and burned up🤷 I installed a new belt, and even though I didn't change anything it hasn't done it again since. I still don't know the cause.
Too many irons in the fire

Magicman

I have had a new drive belt to fail to properly "crawl" and smoke.  It seems that maybe a new belt is more susceptible because it may not have lost it's oval shape and "rounded" out yet.  
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

barbender

That makes sense Magic, I remember being doubly disappointed by mine getting smoked because I had just done the 50 hour adjustment on it.
Too many irons in the fire

Dave Shepard

Calling your dealer should be the first step now that we are past the holiday weekend. They can't make it right if they don't know about it.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

widetrackman

Quote from: Magicman on May 27, 2024, 04:13:41 PM
Quote from: widetrackman on May 27, 2024, 02:30:09 PMIf I start adjusting the head to bunks
This subject has been discussed many times in the past here on the FF.  My recommendation and also from the other replies, is to NOT make any bed adjustments, and even then, ONLY until you have talked with your selling dealer, Tim.
All bunks where on 15" spec.s except the 3rd which was high. I only adjusted it to the 15" spec. which should not cause any problems, so l think.

widetrackman

Smoke and squeal problem solved. I was surfing YouTube's last night for WM lt 40 drive belt problems when I got a hit with the following tille; Wood Mizer LT 40 Drive Belt-Smokeing, Grabbing at Idle. If you listen to him, it sounds like he is in a WM facility as he says 'they are getting these to tight'.  Look at this YouTube , it's easier than me trying to explain. I adjusted as he advised and no squeal ,no smoke when idling and blade brake stops blade as it should. ffcool

Brad_bb

12 hours on a "new" mill?  To me that's a lot of running time for a new mill.  Was it sold as a demo unit?  12 hours is a lot of cutting.  I'm assuming the hour meter is only running when the engine is running?  

Sounds like a miserable experience when it should be a pleasant one.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Ben Cut-wright

That brake strap adjustment is explained in the "auto clutch linkage" maintenance section (5) of your manual.  If the smoked belt is gonna be used it might pay to check the tension now.  These two adjustments go hand in hand, one affects the other.  Also check the drive belt support.  Instruction for the support adjustment are in the drive belt adjustment section of your manual.

The manual has pictures too.  BG

widetrackman

Section 5 could be clearer as it does not address squealing/smoking drive belt. The YouTube title I posted shows what will cause smoking a belt. Take a look at that YouTube you can tell whether your belt has enough slack with autoclutch off. My Mill had a little over an inch instead of the recommended 3/8-1/4 inch (which appears to be by a WM person). This solved my problem.

YellowHammer

Useful video.

However, you still need to check that your drive belt is ticking over or you will smoke it again.

You also need a main drive belt tension gauge and readjust the belt when engaged, especially on a new one and routinely afterward.  Many cutting and sawing issues are due to an improperly tensioned drive belt. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Southside

Did you verify that the belt has the correct tension using the supplied tool when the clutch is engaged?  If not you will either have a problem with the band slipping while cutting causing poor cutting performance if it's too loose, or you will wipe out the idle side bearing if it's too tight. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Ben Cut-wright

Quote from: widetrackman on May 29, 2024, 02:39:47 AMSection 5 could be clearer as it does not address squealing/smoking drive belt. The YouTube title I posted shows what will cause smoking a belt. Take a look at that YouTube you can tell whether your belt has enough slack with autoclutch off. My Mill had a little over an inch instead of the recommended 3/8-1/4 inch (which appears to be by a WM person). This solved my problem.

Happy that you to find the information you preferred and got your current problem *alleviated.  My intent was to add information and point out factory printed instructions.  There is NO operator or service and repair manual capable of addressing every circumstance.  Your "belt noise and eventual smoking" problem is a long known (cause and effect) entity here at this website. As you read in the replies, there are additional things related to drive belt (slack-tension) to check and/or adjust.

The gentleman in the video appears to have a well equipped shop, but his methods and instructions are not up to WoodMizer standards, IMO.



MartyParsons

Hello
   Drive belt on the 38 Kohler gas. The supplement in the manual Auto Clutch . 
The new belts have Kevlar ( what I am told) the Kevlar fibers take time to stretch. If you let the belt smoke and get hot the fibers can shrink. With new customers that tend to let the engine idle and even seasoned operators don't let this happen! Remove the cover under the lube tank and raise the brake UP so the engine can go down as much as possible, doing this may not let the band brake stop the band, before this adjustment mark the factory location of the brake adjustment. 
Review " loosen brake adjust as needed to get band to stop then do not let engine idle. Once you get about 25-50 hours readjust after the belt gets flexible. 
Remember to check belt adjustment after the first 25 hours.
Hope this helps! 
M
"A pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." -Winston Churchill

widetrackman

Quote from: MartyParsons on May 29, 2024, 01:03:43 PMHello
  Drive belt on the 38 Kohler gas. The supplement in the manual Auto Clutch .
The new belts have Kevlar ( what I am told) the Kevlar fibers take time to stretch. If you let the belt smoke and get hot the fibers can shrink. With new customers that tend to let the engine idle and even seasoned operators don't let this happen! Remove the cover under the lube tank and raise the brake UP so the engine can go down as much as possible, doing this may not let the band brake stop the band, before this adjustment mark the factory location of the brake adjustment.
Review " loosen brake adjust as needed to get band to stop then do not let engine idle. Once you get about 25-50 hours readjust after the belt gets flexible.
Remember to check belt adjustment after the first 25 hours.
Hope this helps!
 No smoking or squealing after adj the brake and getting 3/8"/1/4" at bottom of sliding linkage with autoclutch off. Plenty of slack in belt at idle. Checked belt tension with WD tool and got 20 lbs at 7/16" is this ok for 12 hrs on Mill as should be 18.lbs.
Quote from: MartyParsons on May 29, 2024, 01:03:43 PMHello
  Drive belt on the 38 Kohler gas. The supplement in the manual Auto Clutch .
The new belts have Kevlar ( what I am told) the Kevlar fibers take time to stretch. If you let the belt smoke and get hot the fibers can shrink. With new customers that tend to let the engine idle and even seasoned operators don't let this happen! Remove the cover under the lube tank and raise the brake UP so the engine can go down as much as possible, doing this may not let the band brake stop the band, before this adjustment mark the factory location of the brake adjustment.
Review " loosen brake adjust as needed to get band to stop then do not let engine idle. Once you get about 25-50 hours readjust after the belt gets flexible.
Remember to check belt adjustment after the first 25 hours.
Hope this helps!
M
Quote from: MartyParsons on May 29, 2024, 01:03:43 PMHello
  Drive belt on the 38 Kohler gas. The supplement in the manual Auto Clutch .
The new belts have Kevlar ( what I am told) the Kevlar fibers take time to stretch. If you let the belt smoke and get hot the fibers can shrink. With new customers that tend to let the engine idle and even seasoned operators don't let this happen! Remove the cover under the lube tank and raise the brake UP so the engine can go down as much as possible, doing this may not let the band brake stop the band, before this adjustment mark the factory location of the brake adjustment.
Review " loosen brake adjust as needed to get band to stop then do not let engine idle. Once you get about 25-50 hours readjust after the belt gets flexible.
Remember to check belt adjustment after the first 25 hours.
Hope this helps!


widetrackman

Quote from: Ben Cut-wright on May 29, 2024, 12:27:26 PM
Quote from: widetrackman on May 29, 2024, 02:39:47 AMSection 5 could be clearer as it does not address squealing/smoking drive belt. The YouTube title I posted shows what will cause smoking a belt. Take a look at that YouTube you can tell whether your belt has enough slack with autoclutch off. My Mill had a little over an inch instead of the recommended 3/8-1/4 inch (which appears to be by a WM person). This solved my problem.

Happy that you to find the information you preferred and got your current problem *alleviated.  My intent was to add information and point out factory printed instructions.  There is NO operator or service and repair manual capable of addressing every circumstance.  Your "belt noise and eventual smoking" problem is a long known (cause and effect) entity here at this website. As you read in the replies, there are additional things related to drive belt (slack-tension) to check and/or adjust.

The gentleman in the video appears to have a well equipped shop, but his methods and instructions are not up to WoodMizer standards, IMO.
What is or is not preferred is not a issue, this type of adjustment is not covered in the manual, is common enough that it should be, IMO

widetrackman

A new $60,000 Mill the that is shipped with the problem I had which damaged my belt will generate warranty claims. Seems it would not cost WM much to include 3 or 4 sentences in there manual vs possible warranty claims. Maybe someone could contact WM and see what they say. IMO

Old Greenhorn

I would think that you would be the best person to do this.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

barbender

 If you are looking for help and resources, this is a great place. You've gotten some excellent advice. Did you call and talk to Woodmizer about your situation today or yesterday?
Too many irons in the fire

widetrackman

Well I called about the debarker problem and could not get past a sales or tech person. Maybe some or at least me, have been unable to talk to any managerial personal.. I have been unable to find any phone no.s or email address's of managers. It appears they hide any contact access to customers or the public. Maybe someone like Marty Parsons could address my comments with WM headquarters. I am done with this issue as I have solved my problem.

Ben Cut-wright

Quote from: widetrackman on May 29, 2024, 09:20:35 PMWhat is or is not preferred is not a issue, this type of adjustment is not covered in the manual, is common enough that it should be, IMO

The adjustment the video illustrated and the one you say you performed on your mill IS covered in the manual section I referenced. I was trying to point out that the brake strap, the drive belt, and the autoclutch adjustments can have affect on each other.  If you adjust one you need to at least check the others. 


Marty quoted the procedure in the "autoclutch" *supplement regarding initial drive belt break-in procedures.  If the mill has autoclutch you should have the supplement. If not you can view it at the WoodMizer link. 

Ben Cut-wright

Quote from: widetrackman on May 30, 2024, 01:18:39 AMI have been unable to find any phone no.s or email address's of managers. It appears they hide any contact access to customers or the public.

Don't you have a WoodMizer card with contact phone number and your personal customer number? I've always been impressed at the ease of contacting them.  Their knowledge and service has been top-notch.

Old Greenhorn

Conducting business properly usually means you will contact the dealer you bought the mill from as your first point of contact. This is their job to keep individual customers serviced, supplied and supported. If they can't help you, THEY should be able to refer you to someone further up the ladder at corporate to help with your specific issue. You really need to begin at the dealer. Trying to jump right into the corporate level is a rookie move and rarely works well. Keep in mind that they (your dealer) want to be selling you blades and parts for your equipment for years to come. I assume your machine was purchased from WM Mississippi in Louisville? Their Office Number is 663-803-4332 and you can ask for Kim or Tim Hobby. This information is right on their website home page, not hidden. They are the principals at that dealership. I would explain your issues and concerns calmly, politely, and without any raised voice. Sometimes it helps to be ready with a simple list in front of you with your basic simple points to stay on topic. Don't get tied up in tiny nits, stick to the important stuff.
 I get that you are upset and aggravated and you can tell them that, but keep it polite and simply stated. Leave the passion out of it, there is nothing they can do to solve that issue.
 I had to handle issues like this with new capitol equipment purchases for 4 decades from both sides of the phone, whether it was machines not built to contract specs, poor performance, missing options, or unapproved changes. When you are working in the 6 or 7 digit price ranges, people can get really excited and the original issue can get lost in a non-productive argument leading to lawyers getting involved. None of that solves the problem and gets people to work. Keep it on a professional level to get the best results. Remember your "Sirs" and "Ma'ams".
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

stanmillnc

I am also a relatively new owner of a LT50. Like many have reported with post-COVID build sawmills, I had some minor issues upon startup. The drive belt was way under tensioned, lube-mizer issue, hydraulic leaks, and some other minor adjustments were required. My new mill wasn't test-run by the dealer because it's electric and they don't have three phase power. The WM support team was easily accessible, and supportive to work me through these minor issues. As this is my third WM mill, I was already familiar with operation and maintenance, so this helps. With all three of my WM sawmills I received a consistently high level of customer support - both through my local dealer and the factory. 

SawyerTed

Buying something like a $60k sawmill means a purchaser is entering a long term relationship with the dealer and manufacturer.  That's especially true for things like sawmills, tractors and other machines and equipment.

It's important to keep that relationship working.  That takes communication and persistence.  It's frustrating when the purchaser feels his concerns are being overlooked.  But that's when you talk to whoever you get on the phone.  If that means starting with a technician, do it.  Let them know.

Communicated correctly concerns will work through to who needs to know. 

Keep trying your dealer. 
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Stephen1

I am on my 3rd mill, 1 Norwood and 2 WM. 2 of these mills were old machines that both companies helped me keep running with great service. Most of the problems stemmed from me running them and not knowing how to  service and repair. 
My last mill the 2018, has been great but still lots of little quirks as you learn the mill. Most of my problems have stemmed from operator error. A few were factory problems and all were solved with phone calls to the local dealer and service tech. 
You have bought a machine that you and with help from WM will be the mechanic on. Yes the manual is not the most perfect,, but I have found with reading it over 3-4 times, thinking, patience, and then a call to WM I can solve all the problems. 
Drive Belt and Brake are both related and are very important, and need to be adjusted together. I still check my Drive belt every week , not very often does it need adjusting and then the brake needs adjusting, and then the auto clutch needs adjusting.
Don't let your engine idle for long periods of time as it screws up the drive belt. 

Safety says Don't be working on your mill measuring and adjust the head with the engine running. 

Call WM lots as they will hep you all they can, as Tom says, lots of please and thank you. sugar gets more than vinegar. My contact at WM gave me his personal number so he can help me if I'm down when I am on the road. Lots of little things that WM does to help us keep this machines running. 
Get to making sawdust as soon as you can so you can learn that mill!
Cheers
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

OH logger

Dang I hate to hear all that.  Sounds like brand new mills aren't trouble free like they used to be or SHOULD BE. $60,000 later and there's hyd leaks and other crap that I have  to work on instead of paying for the new machine. Bull crap.  You would think a dealer would have to have either 3 phase or a converter to test new machines so this problem wouldn't come up.    I know everyone blames poor quality, late deadlines and long waits on Covid but quite frankly I think that's just becoming a crutch 
john

Magicman

Sawmills are simple machines but they are also very multifaceted with mechanical, electrical, and hydraulic functions and adjustments.  Since learning and understanding skills vary widely between individuals it is virtually impossible to have a one-size-fits-all Operator/Owner Manual.  Some owners read and understand, some read and do not understand, and then some do not even read.

Marty Parsons detailed a few of the run time intervals and adjustments that are required on a new sawmill, belt replacement, etc.  Reading, understanding, and following through are not just good ideas, they are requirements.  An owners manual, square, and belt tension gauge all need to see regular use.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Southside

Quote from: OH logger on May 30, 2024, 09:19:50 PMI know everyone blames poor quality, late deadlines and long waits on Covid but quite frankly I think that's just becoming a crutch 
There was a significant shift in work ethic and motivation during the Covid period and the fact is things have not returned to normal.  As an employer I see it all the time. Had someone yesterday tell me they want to come and work for me while they "file for their disability" because they "can't do their job anymore" --- umm, nope you aren't going to be on my payroll.  I have no idea what, if anything it will take, to turn this around.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Nealm66

So curious, I have an lt50 ordered, are these adjustments I can expect to have to make before I run the mill? Is this something they will show me how to do when I pick the mill up? When Marty says not to idle is he saying to leave it engaged while bringing the mill back from a cut? Or just to not do any extended idles? I know there's some adjustments that need to be made within the first 50 hours as the belts stretch but is this additional?

widetrackman

I guess I look at things differently from some. I just bought a new $75,000 pick up and if I took it home and had to set the timing and adjust the toe end which I have the shop and tools to do, I would not be happy. I maintain that there's nothing in the manual I got with the Mill nor have been told there was a revision by my Dealer or a WM tech. In fact both the dealer and the WM tech knew nothing about the adjustment I made and both suggested I soap the belt. As to my dealer they are nice people but very small and large cattle farm combined. I will state what the YouTube  suggested and what I did; the drive belt was not effected and had nothing to do with it and after the brake adj. the tension was 19 lbs @ 7/16 inch. What I did was loosen the Brake only so as to get only 3/8-1/4 inch gap at bottom of brake link arm. This lets more slack in drive belt when the autoclutch rotates the engine back to idle. There also seamed no or very little change in blade braking. There may be other ways to stop smoking and squealing of the drive belt but my way could not be simpler. 

widetrackman

Quote from: barbender on May 29, 2024, 10:47:25 PMIf you are looking for help and resources, this is a great place. You've gotten some excellent advice. Did you call and talk to Woodmizer about your situation today or yesterday?

Yes I did talk with WM tech, I did not mention about the brake adjustment. Asked him what to do about smoking belt at idle , he suggested checking the drive belt tension which I told him I had done and in spec. He then suggested soaping the drive belt which was the same advise the Dealer tech said works sometime.

Magicman

Quote from: Nealm66 on May 31, 2024, 12:12:03 AMOr just to not do any extended idles?
There is nothing wrong with idling, just don't let it idle while you eat lunch.  ffsmiley

I kill my engine when I see more than a about 5 minutes or so between operations. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Stephen1

So after 12 hrs of run time, the brake and drive belt adjustments are done, no more trouble with the belt. Expect to do that at 50 hrs and there after, and expect to do a lot more adjustments and repairs, as you break in the mill and learn how to run it. The new breed of tech support still has lots to learn  from guys and girls like us. Next one with your problem will now get told to adjust the brake as long as you call them back to tell how you fixed the problem. 
Thank fully that these mills are built so we can fix them!!! 
And that 75k pick up truck like the one  I bought 2 years ago just cost me $1000 for a new LED Tail light instead of $5 for a 357 bulb. 5 recalls so far on my truck and I expect more. You might be wishing you could adjust the timing instead of having to take it back the dealer all the time because they make them so we can't fix them them or maintain them anymore. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Nealm66

The main reason I chose woodmizer is the dealer support. From what I've gathered, all sawmills, regardless of brand, need constant attention. I feel a lot better knowing I can drop it off at the dealer if it's something I can't figure out. It would be nice if these things were less problematic and I'm sure they have all tried to make them as trouble free as possible but there's always something 

widetrackman

Quote from: Stephen1 on May 31, 2024, 08:02:37 AMSo after 12 hrs of run time, the brake and drive belt adjustments are done, no more trouble with the belt. Expect to do that at 50 hrs and there after, and expect to do a lot more adjustments and repairs, as you break in the mill and learn how to run it. The new breed of tech support still has lots to learn  from guys and girls like us. Next one with your problem will now get told to adjust the brake as long as you call them back to tell how you fixed the problem.
Thank fully that these mills are built so we can fix them!!!
And that 75k pick up truck like the one  I bought 2 years ago just cost me $1000 for a new LED Tail light instead of $5 for a 357 bulb. 5 recalls so far on my truck and I expect more. You might be wishing you could adjust the timing instead of having to take it back the dealer all the time because they make them so we can't fix them them or maintain them anymore.
I would expect to make repairs after warranty but not a $1,000 2 days after receiving a new $75,000 truck. I will say WM has the best customer support out there. I am a little different than most folks. I have a late model Tahoe  that has over 100,000 mi that has never seen the inside of a Chevy dealer as I have scanner/analyzers, tools and a nice shop. 

barbender

 I've has very few brand new machines of my own. Never had a new vehicle. I've been around a lot of brand new Ponsse cut to length machines. There's always something few things that need tightened up on a brand new machine. And some issues, the official solution was rejected for something we figured out worked better in the woods. A few times one of the Ponsse techs would call me and ask, "how did you solve that issue you were having?" and you get to be part of the solution for other folks, just like you are getting from other operators here.

 As I've said before, I'd be frustrated with things not working correctly on a brand new machine, too. I'd press the dealer or factory to make it right, and then get on with it myself.

 One thing to consider with the new pickup  analogy- any model of new pickup is produced in the tens of thousands, or more. Most of the equipment I run is produced in the hundreds and maybe thousands. The more of something is out there, the more feedback the techs and engineers get to be able fix issues as they arise.
Too many irons in the fire

Magicman

It seems that the assumption might be that constant repairs and adjustments are necessary to keep a sawmill sawing.  This simply is not a fact regardless of the manufacturer.  I saw many thousands of bf of lumber while handling hundreds of logs and never tweak anything.  I know that if the engine pulls down on a wide cut and the drive belt does not squeal, there is nothing to tighten.  I may pull out the BGAT every few months to verify what I already know about the blade guides and put the square against the Side Supports.

The sawmill is like what John Cameron Swayze said about a Timex watch; "it takes a licking and keeps on ticking".  It is simply not a high maintenance machine that needs constant massaging.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Ben Cut-wright

Quote from: widetrackman on May 31, 2024, 01:09:30 AMI maintain that there's nothing in the manual I got with the Mill nor have been told there was a revision by my Dealer or a WM tech.

In fact both the dealer and the WM tech knew nothing about the adjustment I made and both suggested I soap the belt.

 I will state what the YouTube  suggested and what I did; the drive belt was not effected and had nothing to do with it and after the brake adj. the tension was 19 lbs @ 7/16 inch. What I did was loosen the Brake only so as to get only 3/8-1/4 inch gap at bottom of brake link arm. This lets more slack in drive belt when the autoclutch rotates the engine back to idle. There also seamed no or very little change in blade braking.

There may be other ways to stop smoking and squealing of the drive belt but my way could not be simpler.

Are you saying your manual does NOT contain instructions for adjusting the blade brake strap?    Or were you expecting to see a notation related to a "smoking drive belt"?

Even the WoodMizer parts people I've talked to were adept in most maintenance and minor adjustment procedures.

Marty provided the factory reasons for adjusting the blade brake to the point it was when you received it. The adjustment you made most assuredly changed the brake strap tension.  The new belt material is longer lasting but does require a careful break-in period.  The upgrade from twin belts to the bonded belt, and then to the new material means longer belt life and less frequent adjustments, and mostly eliminated belts jumping off pulleys. 

No matter how the belt-pulley friction was relieved the supplement instructed to limit running the engine for prolonged periods with the belt disengaged.  The manual, and experienced members here, recommend becoming aware of how the related adjustments affect one another.

AFA vehicle warranty comparisons are concerned:  There was an "air bag" recall on my brand new GM truck that took five years to resolve.  Other than the regular maintenance I do myself the truck has never been in for other repairs of any sort.  My LT40HD has become intimately more, what would you say, *familiar.


widetrackman

Ben, I don't think Marty covered what I am talking about. The manual does not say what is the result is if the 1/16 min gap at the collar on the brake adj is excessive, mine from factory was 1 1/2 and would within 45 or so seconds start smoking the belt. Maybe someone would test a lt40-50 with a new belt with the gap set a 1 1/2" and see what happen's. BTW when the dealer tested the mill he never let it idle for more than a few seconds so no noise or smoking. A owner of a new Mill should not have to know about or make this adj on day one. Again IMO

YellowHammer

45 seconds to smoke the belt would have been pretty obvious when you conducted your test drive of the new mill in front of the company rep, as well as the debarker trip and the bed rail issue.  I'm curious as to why these weren't discovered when you tested the mill at the dealer and you sawed a few logs there at your own speed?

Or when they brought it, and you sawed some logs in front of them, to do a confirmation alignment and operational check?


   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Ben Cut-wright

Quote from: widetrackman on June 01, 2024, 04:11:42 AM(1) Ben, I don't think Marty covered what I am talking about. The manual does not say what is the result is if the 1/16 min gap at the collar on the brake adj is excessive,

(2)mine from factory was 1 1/2 and would within 45 or so seconds start smoking the belt. Maybe someone would test a lt40-50 with a new belt with the gap set a 1 1/2" and see what happen's.

(3)BTW when the dealer tested the mill he never let it idle for more than a few seconds so no noise or smoking. A owner of a new Mill should not have to know about or make this adj on day one. Again IMO

(1)  There are many scenarios that could occur and the manual or expert assistance cannot cover all of them.  The trick is making adjustments to specs in order to prevent bad scenarios and maintain correct operation.

(2) You have a legitimate complaint if you weren't instructed or your WoodMizer supplied literature did not include the auto clutch supplement, IMO. 

(3) Apparently the dealer wasn't aware of the drive belt break-in procedure. You are now aware of it and I'm sure WoodMizer will make you whole in the matter.  Hopefully you can see why it is necessary for the "owner of a new Mill" to be aware of the benefit of proper drive belt break-in? 

No doubt there will be other circumstances where you will need to overcome some operational/maintenance peculiarity after using a new or used WoodMizer sawmill.  Correcting these usually isn't as involved as they first appear. Some are much more difficult than what you presented. A new owner is in the comfort zone with warranty and WoodMizer good will and expert assistance.

widetrackman

Quote from: YellowHammer on June 01, 2024, 08:51:09 AM45 seconds to smoke the belt would have been pretty obvious when you conducted your test drive of the new mill in front of the company rep, as well as the debarker trip and the bed rail issue.  I'm curious as to why these weren't discovered when you tested the mill at the dealer and you sawed a few logs there at your own speed?

Or when they brought it, and you sawed some logs in front of them, to do a confirmation alignment and operational check?


 
No test at Dealer basically. He cranked saw and immediately hit the auto clutch, and moved the head into a log with the deabarker running and immediately the mill threw a circuit breaker. He did this twice and each time tripped a breaker. There was no squealing or smoke and why I don't know. At this point he said he could not fix it that day that so I went home. All this does not really matter,  as when I ran the Mill for the first time the belt smoked. Only after several days of searching in the manual I could not figure out why the belt was smoking. Eventually I found a YouTube that indicated what my problem was; the mill was grossly out of adjustment from the factory. All the how and why are ok but the bottom line is if you get a new lt40-50 check to see if mill is out of adj. The easy way to understand if your mill is out of adj and smoking a belt is to check out the YouTube I referenced. 

TimW

Quote from: Stephen1 on May 31, 2024, 08:02:37 AMAnd that 75k pick up truck like the one  I bought 2 years ago just cost me $1000 for a new LED Tail light instead of $5 for a 357 bulb. 5 recalls so far on my truck and I expect more. You might be wishing you could adjust the timing instead of having to take it back the dealer all the time because they make them so we can't fix them them or maintain them anymore.
That is exactly why I drive a 2003 pickup.
Mahindra 6520 4WD with loader/backhoe and a Caterpiller E70 Excavator.  My mill is a Woodmizer LT40HD Wide 35hp Yanmar Diesel. An old Lull 644D-34 called Bull

Southside

Did the belt jump half out of the drive pulley? 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Magicman

I hate to see Wood-Mizer taking the rap on this situation when it actually falls squarely on the selling dealer's shoulders.  It seems obvious to me that they rushed through the dealer training and made a few cursory cuts instead of taking the time to do the proper training.  Had that been done, the engine would have surely idled for a while and the improperly adjusted components would have made themselves known.

I am reading that the dealer/technician actually ran the sawmill and widetrackman never received any hands on training. 

This is the Mississippi Wood-Mizer dealer and I have never used this dealership for any of my services.  I have only talked with them on the phone one time.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

widetrackman

Quote from: Brad_bb on May 29, 2024, 01:09:36 AM12 hours on a "new" mill?  To me that's a lot of running time for a new mill.  Was it sold as a demo unit?  12 hours is a lot of cutting.  I'm assuming the hour meter is only running when the engine is running? 

Sounds like a miserable experience when it should be a pleasant one.
Miserable is  correct. When I went to get the mill it had been there for a month because of the debarker screw up. When I got there the seat and HP guides were not installed, so while they were installing them I looked over the Mill. It looked brand new no saw dust or any indication it had been run. However I never thought to check the hr meter only when it was delivered and showed 11+ hours. I just figured that the 5 weeks they were trying to get the debarker installed. BTW on the 5 week when they said come and get it. Apon arrivaI asked where was the seat and hp guides? Da , we think there in the shop, turned out they didn't have the guides. So after a hour and half they got the seat on. We then set a log on the Mill and tried to use the Mill and the debarker kept throwing the circuit breaker. I the asked if they tested the debarker before calling me for pick up; the answer was no. They said they would deliver when fixed so I drove 125 miles each way for no Mill. A week later they delivered the Mill with the 11.5 hrs. I have no idea how they got these hrs but I am sure the Mill was new when I was there. I will see if the meter runs when key on only. Sorry to be so long wind'd but thought you might be interested.

SawyerTed

The more I read of this fiasco the more the shortcomings appear to rest with the dealer delivery  procedures.   Maybe Wood-Mizer manufacturing has some responsibility but the dealer is the final check prior to delivery.  

A thorough delivery demo appears to have been bypassed.  A portion of responsibility rests on the customer NOT to accept a machine until it is satisfactorily demonstrated.   

My pickup/delivery  experience with a different dealer is much different.  Both mills I purchased were set up and run before I arrived.  I received about an hour's worth of training and orientation on the mills.

In 2018 we found a major hydraulic leak on the LT35 during the demo and training. The dealer fixed it and delivered the mill two days later. 

With the LT50 delivery, the delivery tech asked if I wanted the full training and orientation since I had already owned a mill.  I told him to do it just like I was a new owner.  We spent time sawing two logs and mostly focused on Accuset 2 operations.

There have been a couple of other threads similar to this one where either a dealer or customer short cut the delivery and training or delivery didn't include a thorough demo.  

Doesn't warranty depend upon the owner participating in the demo and training session on mills above a certain model?  

Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

Hilltop366

This sucks for everyone the manufacture for letting a substandard mill out the door and now has a unhappy costumer and dealer, the dealer being stuck in the middle, they didn't make it but they get stuck trying to fix it and have a unhappy customer,  but especially the buyer who put down a substantial amount of money and expected a fully functioning mill and is now wasting his time trying to make it right but is also at a disadvantage because he has the least amount of experience of the three.

At the very least I would try to have the "unsatisfied costumer" return date deadline countdown changed to start after the mill is made to run properly so you actually have time to use a properly functioning mill to decide.

tule peak timber

I took delivery of my second Woodmizer mill back in 2019. It was an LT70 Wide, along with supporting gear. The dealership in N. CA used it, without my permission, over the weekend, prior to delivery to TPT, to run a bunch of demonstrations and managed to bend the loading arm, one of the hydraulic rams, snapped off some bolts on the head and did various other damages. I paid for one of the technicians to deliver it and he spent 2 days on my dime trying to get it to run. He was unsuccessful because he didn't know the mill and I paid a great deal for that wasted time. So, fast forward a month, Woodmizer is great! They threw a bunch of parts at me and said "here you fix it". We had steady trouble with a number of wiring, tension bag problems and a funny thing that the mill wouldn't open up to 20'. Seems it was "put together wrong at the factory". Fast forward more months; a new joystick control head, wiring harness, nuts and bolts, etc. etc. Never did really get to use the mill and sold it for $20k less than I paid for it. Definitely lacking in customer service and quality.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

John S

TPT, not good!  It is definitely up to the manufacturer and dealer to make things right on a brand new mill. 
2018 LT40HDG38 Wide

doc henderson

I do not own a WM mill.  I have met Marty and I think he is a great guy, and I appreciate that WM is a sponsor.  It is by far and away the most prev. brand of mill represented on this forum.  I stick up for Timberking, also a sponsor, as I have had a great experience with them.  the real test is after the warranty is over and they (specifically Matt) have been great.  the very mechanical, knowledgeable staff have been quite patient helping with a diagnosis and me now being quite proficient with trouble shooting.  I do not owe them anything, and they do not owe me.  I think you have a right to be unhappy, and I would take that up with them.  As well there are lots of WM owners here that help bring a new owner up on the learning curve.  I think you should take advantage of that.  I think you have confirmation that some of the issues may be on the manufacturer.  i would put all your energy on that front towards Wood-mizer.  Many companies have suffered in a post Covid environment, and I am sure they are no different.  I am not here to tell you what to do, but I would go up the chain and demand things are made right.  Given the long history with the company, I would also give a little grace and work to some resolution.  Best regards, and respect, Doc.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

tule peak timber

Yup, well after one of their visits here they went into direct competition with me selling wood , slabs , epoxy technology, etc, etc. My WM dealer is a direct competitor of my business.
  Grace is bowing out, moving on, and doing better than the competition.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

widetrackman

Quote from: TimW on June 01, 2024, 07:56:16 PM
Quote from: Stephen1 on May 31, 2024, 08:02:37 AMAnd that 75k pick up truck like the one  I bought 2 years ago just cost me $1000 for a new LED Tail light instead of $5 for a 357 bulb. 5 recalls so far on my truck and I expect more. You might be wishing you could adjust the timing instead of having to take it back the dealer all the time because they make them so we can't fix them them or maintain them anymore.
That is exactly why I drive a 2003 pickup.
Yes, this is why I drive them till ain't nothing left, last month purchased my first vehicle  in 16 years with all the extended warranty they had; bumper to bumper 6 years/75,000 mi, power train 6 yr./ 100,000 mi. and why, because of all the complex systems. My mileage is 10-12 thousand miles. Reduces for quite awhile me having to make repairs.

widetrackman


widetrackman

Quote from: doc henderson on June 02, 2024, 05:47:02 PMI do not own a WM mill.  I have met Marty and I think he is a great guy, and I appreciate that WM is a sponsor.  It is by far and away the most prev. brand of mill represented on this forum.  I stick up for Timberking, also a sponsor, as I have had a great experience with them.  the real test is after the warranty is over and they (specifically Matt) have been great.  the very mechanical, knowledgeable staff have been quite patient helping with a diagnosis and me now being quite proficient with trouble shooting.  I do not owe them anything, and they do not owe me.  I think you have a right to be unhappy, and I would take that up with them.  As well there are lots of WM owners here that help bring a new owner up on the learning curve.  I think you should take advantage of that.  I think you have confirmation that some of the issues may be on the manufacturer.  i would put all your energy on that front towards Wood-mizer.  Many companies have suffered in a post Covid environment, and I am sure they are no different.  I am not here to tell you what to do, but I would go up the chain and demand things are made right.  Given the long history with the company, I would also give a little grace and work to some resolution.  Best regards, and respect, Doc.
If Marty,s outfit had been handling my purchase I think I would have had a much better outcome. At least based on what comments I have heard on the internet.

Southside

So I had some pretty significant issues with my Super 70 one time and I was not satisfied with how things were being handled so I politely, but firmly, went up the chain of command to the very top and detailed everything that had been done to that point and why I was still not satisfied.  I never made mention of the issue anywhere online as I figured those who made the ultimate call had not yet had the opportunity to address the matter.  At the end of the day WM dropped off a loaner mill for me, brought my mill back to Indy and went through it.  Turns out there was a small but critical electrical wire that had not been connected at the factory, it's nothing I ever would have found over the phone.  They returned my mill to me, went over it from hitch to taillight while it was there and did everything they could to make things right.  

To me, that is real customer service.  Should I have had to go that far to get it addressed?  Not in my opinion, but at the end of the day I went from being a customer who had a quote from another mfg in his hand to one who was happy to get back to work.  

People drop the ball, people don't always make the right call, but if they aren't the ultimate decision maker then there are still avenues available to resolve a problem rather than stewing on it indefinitely. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

doc henderson

I will backtrack a bit.  Everyone has the right to be pithed if you spend money on a new piece of equipment and it has issues.  You should certainly expect the company to make it right, and it should not take hours on the part of the new owner and not take months to get something done.  I maybe should have just stayed out of the conversation, but as usual I did not.   :wacky:� I apologize for that.  I also work in an industry that is struggling in many ways including finding good help.  I also know how it feels to get blamed for national problems that are well beyond my control.  I do try to make folks happy and help them understand that we are still fighting a post covid war.  The national company that I currently work for made all kinds of decisions based on financial losses that have repeatedly shot me in the feet.  They then wanted me to fix problems that they created, and yet not give me the resources.  So, that is where the "give the benefit of the doubt" tact came from.  You all need to do whatever you need to do.  Again, I did not intend to criticize what you are saying or doing.  I would do the same thing.  I also appreciate that they are a sponsor and hope they can get it together.  Regards, Doc.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Bruno of NH

Original Op
Please send me your information 
I might be able to help you out with Woodmizer 
As far as the smoking belt 
I just replaced the drive side bearing assembly, 38hp gas , and had the brake set to tight and smoked my new drive belt.
Please reach out to me .
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

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