PC or Mac

[stumpy]

I am thinking of changing from a PC to a MAC.  Are ther any issues as far as reading and accessing the Forestry Forum, or will I not notice anything different?  Obviously, I don't know much about computers.

[ronwood]

stumpy,

I don't think you will see much different pulling up websites.

Ron

[slowzuki]

99.9% of websites appear fine on my mac, the only ones that don't are ones that need downloads to watch their video feeds like some of the sports networks.

On the bonus side, it shows sights that are standards compliant correctly, unlike IE which buggers up a bunch of those.

Took a while for me to get comfortable after converting but now I love it.  Not one adware or spyware or virus in 2 years and I tend to end up on some sketchy pages digging around for info.

I actually accidentally infected my wife's work machine by mailing her a link to a webpage I had been using.  She opened the link and it killed her machine, she's a computer consultant with a bunch of geeky guys who work with her and they couldn't fix her machine either, had to wipe it clean.

[JimBuis]

First, I'll admit I'm a PC guy, although that should not be interpreted to mean 'politically correct'.  My school is a Mac only institution, so I use a Mac everyday at work. I've been using a Mac at work then for four years now.

Okay, now that I have said that, I am not convinced. There's no way I am going to give up my PC. I have not had a PC infected by a virus or anything of the kind in ten years. I am online everyday of every week for hours at a time and have no problems.

I do not find my Mac at work to be as easy to use, don't find the software or operating system to offer any selling points, I simply do not see the attraction.

I could say a lot more, but don't think it is necessary.

Stumpy, I would ask a question though. Why are you wanting to change from a PC to a Mac?

Jim

[stumpy]

Well, a couple of reasons
1. I'm getting a very good deal on a Mac
2. My nephew is a computer wizard and has tried to convert me for 2 years now
3. I have the worst luck with computers. I have been infected a few times with both virus's and spyware.
4. I can't say definitively that this is a good move, but I'm thinking it is and am almost ready to make the change

[Jeff]

If all your doing is cruising the internet it probably doesn't make that big of a difference. If your like me, using my computer for all kinds of things then I wouldn't change, you will never find what you need for applications.  The only thing I can tell you is, if you have trouble with the mac in regards to the forum, I dont know nuthin about em and cant be of any help.

[Jeff]

If your nephew was a true computer wizard, it wouldnt be a mac he be trying to convert you to...  Only Macwizards do that.

[SwampDonkey]

I can't do what I do on a Mac, the GIS software isn't there. You might get away with running under PC emulation, but might as well get a PC.  :

[Ianab]

A true computer geek would convert you to Linux  :D

I usually run Win XP or 2000, but I came over to my Linux box just to type this. The forum looks subtly different under Firefox / Suse linux, but it's all fully functional. Even running on an old PIII computer  ;D

Cheers

Ian

[ronwood]

Ian,

I run both Windows XP and Linux. The Linux has dual AMD processors and runs quite fast. For most things I prefer Linux. I even had the guts to make a change to the operating system and it worked. One thing that the MAC was always known for was graphics design programs.

Ron

[SwampDonkey]

Heck, I've even posted in here under AmigaOS, now that will curl some eye brows. With the superCPU and Wheels, I could post using the C= 64. :D :D :D

[ronwood]

Swampdonkey,

Now thats a man dedicated to getting on to the forum. Might want to keeep the system if it is yours. Might be worth something in the future.

Ron

[stumpy]

BOY, you guys are getting way over my head!!!!!!!

P.S. But thanks for the help anyway.

[ronwood]

Stumpy,

Sorry did not want to get over your head. I think you would be happy with a Mac

Ron

[stumpy]

No Problem at all.  Thanks for the help.

[JimBuis]

Stumpy,
If you have had virus problems and so forth, that is related to your own knowledge level as much your machine. That is perfectly okay as that is where you are at. If you have close family who are into MACs and will devote some time to help you get acclimated to the MAC's idiosyncrasies, I'd say go for it. Your situation sounds sort of like having a Ford mechanic in the family who's offering you free maintenance if you own a Ford.

My point is that, as much as I dislike Bill Gates and the Microsoft monopoly, the PC situation worldwide is such that there is a never ending supply of top quality software available. For me, this trumps any concerns about viruses and such.  In fact, MACs are not immune to viruses and such. In the past, the malicious people in the world were themselves PC oriented and therefore have targeted this platform. That is beginning to change. The MAC world is corrupted now as well.

Go for it and Good luck,
Jim

[Paschale]

If you want my two cents, from someone who's been told for years how awesome Macs are, and finally bit the bullet and bought one--I regret it, big time.   :(

Everyone talks about how intuitive Macs are.  Not true, especially if you're used to a PC.  The learning curve for me was so immensely frustrating, I was ready to chuck this thing out the nearest window many, many times for the first few months.  And I'm pretty computer savvy. 

I've gotten used to it enough where it doesn't cause me immense amounts of frustration like it once did, but I still wish I had used the money to get a top of the line PC.

My advice:  if you're used to PC's, and not much of a computer guy, and just want things to work the way you expect them to work, then stick with a PC.  (Your nephew won't agree with me on this, at all, and he'll say they're the easiest thing in the world to operate.  For him, and other Mac fans, that might be true.  For people who have used PCs forever, they are insanely frustrating.)  As far as viruses go, as long as you stay updated with a good anti-virus program, you should be alright. The spyware is admittedly a pain in the rear, and it's nice that Macs don't have to worry about either one of those really, so far, but in my book, the disadvantages of a Mac far outweigh any positives.  That's coming from my personal experience, and it's just my opinion, but I'm no fan of Macs, at all.   >:(

[Wyatt]

I have an IMac dual core and you CAN do anything on it you can do on pc and MORE. I have OSX on one "side" of unit and WINXP on other. I use mac side for internet (macs don't get virisus or need spyware) and I use xp side for my CADD program for my business. Works great, and mac has much easier options for photos,music,etc.

[sprucebunny]

This forum works the same. I've had less trouble with the internet with a Mac.

I had a PC for a couple of years and never could do much with it and I didn't understand the names of things. ( Utilities, Applications, Preferences)

Drag-and-drop didn't work at all on my PC. My friend with a Mac kept saying to 'just drag it over there' and I had no clue what she meant !!

As Wyatt says, you can run both OSs, if you want, on the new Macs.

[stumpy]

I see a trend starting here.  The more comfortable you are with computers, the more you will like a Mac.  On the other hand, if you grew up with PC's and are limited in you computer savy, you are better off with a PC

[sprucebunny]

Stumpy, for me it was sort of opposite. In two years with a PC I didn't learn much about the computer. Either what to do with it or how to do it  :-\ When I got a Mac, it was easier to navigate around in and made more sense to me, so I learned more about it and how it operated. I became  comfortable with a computer and confident that I could make it do something.

[SwampDonkey]

I agree with sprucebunny concerning ease of use of the Mac. I know a lot of Amiga users that would prefer to use Amiga if the software and hardware was there and a decent modern browser.

The first economical micro computer used in video production was the Amiga with the NEWTEK Video Toaster. You couldn't even use the Toaster unless you had an Amiga. Now the Toaster is on a card for the PC, along with it's revolutionary Lightwave 3D.

http://www.newtek.com/vt/requirements.php

[Bill]

Used to run nothing but PC's for years ( remember the 8" floppy disks ? ) - even taught myself basic and eventually learned a bit of unix. Over time I grew to distrust MS - it was always buy the newer version to get their stuff to work ( ask me about MS Business Basic ). Wait a minute I paid good money for it to work the first time.

Mac's have their limits - there's not as much software out as there is for PC's yet many  companies have a PC and Mac version - but with these new dual core processor models they can handle both. I still have an old Mac ibook that I use everyday - G3 processor ( they've gone on to g4 g5 now dual core ) - that still runs everything I need to do . MS Ofc ( DanG that B Gates has that locked up ) , photoshop, firefox, imail and I've continued to work while others suffered through blue death screens, viruses, pop ups, spyware, etc etc without a hitch - never having to reboot to fix things - just solid .

When I switched over ( because of a job change ) I had to learn Mac ( os 9 back then ). There were some rough spots in the beginning but they passed and especially once they came out with os x - which is based on my old friend unix.

Just my two cents . . .

[SwampDonkey]

I don't remember the 8" variety. But I do the 5-1/4" ones of the 8-bit era. Before that it was tape drives I used.

[Paschale]

What I've found, is that depending on the way people think, one or the other works better.  For me, PCs make so much more sense in how they organize files, and how files interact with each other.  I've learned to use a Mac, but I don't like it at all.

The conventional wisdom is that Macs are better for graphics and the like, and music.  But as far as I'm concerned, that's only as good as the interface and software.  There's been a lot of hype on TV about how wonderful iPhoto is.  I hate the program, plain and simply.  I think it's slow and clunky, and I don't like the way it organizes my photos at all, so for me, I find my PC to be much better in that regard.  As a musician, I had just as much luck on PCs as I've had on this Mac, and quite frankly, I find iTunes to be absolutely awful as well, which is another cornerstone of Apple's media blitz about Macs. 

Before you take the plunge, see if you can test drive your nephew's computer for awhile.  If I'd had even a week with this thing, I'd have never made the plunge.

And I have to respectfully disagree with the thought that Macs are more user friendly.  It all depends on what you're used to, and how you think.  People are either a Mac person, or a PC person, and I'm decidedly a PC person, who's stuck with a Mac until I can afford a new computer.   I don't find this thing user friendly at all, though I've made it work for me.  I still get annoyed on a nearly daily basis at some of the peculiarities of Macs.   :

[dancan]

if you haven't played with OSX on a mac and are unsure if it's the investment you want to make try to find a used mac and play with it ( that's how i got converted ).
try and stay with a g4 400 or faster , they are not the fastest but will get the job done and are fast enough for the internet/downloading/email .
yes i still find a shortage of some software (ie my gps ) so i still have a couple of pc"s because i don't have an intel base mac but i'll have one sooner or later . 8)
in the end , get what you are most comfortable with .
if you need links for used let me know .

[DWM II]

The biggest difference I see between my pc and my mac is the pc tends to lock up more often. I like both and would not hesitate to encourage you to try the mac.

[JimBuis]

I see a trend starting here.  The more comfortable you are with computers, the more you will like a Mac.  On the other hand, if you grew up with PC's and are limited in you computer savy, you are better off with a PC

Stumpy,
I'm sorry, but you've gotten this one wrong. I bought my first computer in 1985, a Commodore 64, I then got a Laser 128 in 1987(An Apple IIC clone.), then I got my first PC in 1992. I used the Apple IIC clone at home exclusively for 5 years. I began using a PC at work in 1989. I am far from a computer novice. I have been using a MAC now for 4 years at work everyday.  A MAC has absolutely nothing on a PC.

Some say a MAC has no problems, they don't lock up, and their software is superior.  These statements are simply not true. MACs lock up everyday. Software-wise most of us do word processing, spreadsheets, and web browsing primarily.  MAC has nothing to brag about here. In fact, my school has had to go to Microsoft Office to get sufficient office automation capability and to Firefox for web browsing.

I have a very low opinion of Bill Gates. Nonetheless, MS Office sotware is essentially the standard office automation software package. If you don't want to pay the price for it, you don't have to. Go to www.openoffice.com and download free software that provides virtually the same capability as MS Office. I have been using Open Office for several years and it works very well.

So........change to a MAC if you'd like, but do so as a well informed consumer and not based upon an emotional decision.  I have made my choice with over 20 years of daily computer use to my credit, not based upon a lack of experience.

IMHO,
Jim

[stumpy]

Thanks Jim, and all others.  Your comments have all been helpful.  It's funny, this discussion reminds me of the time someone asked "what's better, Chevy or Ford".  I think the bottom line for me is, I have a relatively new PC that works fine, and I have not heard a compelling reason to believe Mac is far superior.  Therefore, it makes sense to stay with what I have.

[SwampDonkey]

I'm with Jim on the notion that Mac's don't lockup or software doesn't crash. I've used Macs also and know they are not perfect. I can remember the appletalk networking on Mac and if you didn't hold your mouth just right computers on the network would freeze unexpectedly and you see this bubble come on the screen with a bomb icon in it and a fault message. Boom, crash :D :D External scsi devices were a treat also, the system would freeze unexspectedly and sometimes when I would be saving something like an update or chart for my thesis.  smiley_argue01

[SwampDonkey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS-NYK-8KL0

;D

[Tom]

I am amazed!!

Where can I find one of those?

[SwampDonkey]

eBay is full of'um. ;D

[Steve]

Neat clip. That was my first computer, in 85 as well. My kids were just starting school and I thought I should have it for them.
At the time pc's were dos/command line operated and to see these multiple graphic windows made it easy if not more expenive choice.
I stay with the Amiga as long as I could but then made the change to Mac when Amiga was sold.
It was an easy switch as they were so much alike.
I have probably purchased a dozen Macs since then and all but a couple have been used. Being a few years old doens't affect performance that much and lowers the cost considereably.

And by the way I have had this laptop for 3 or 4 years now and I bet it hasn't crashed/locked up more than three or four times total.

[slowzuki]

Swampy that sounds like OS 9 which was a POS.  I've had such a positive experience with Macs compared to my PC days its surprising to here those with a negative experience.

I resisted iphoto, I had my way of organizing photos, I finally releted and geez you know it works great.  They stick together in rolls like film cameras but can be organized into albums etc really easily without making multiple copies of them all over your drive.  You can go a grab the photo right off the drive by date bypassing iphoto if you want to as well.

Itunes works the same way, only organizes it all by artist and album automatically on the drive.  I used to spend hours trying to organized my music collections and now its all done for me (30 gigs worth)

I also really enjoy the search on the mac, works similar to the google desktop search on PC but is built in to a lot of the programs.  I use the one in mail all the time.  I used to have terrible issues with the outlook express program on PC and the apple mail program works so much more how I think thinks should work I just really enjoy it.

I could go on and on about how much I've enjoyed it, the only drawbacks are I still miss the tree view in the file managing program, and I miss the Windows 3.1 split pane in filemanager but that has been gone in windows too a long time.

I'm with Jim on the notion that Mac's don't lockup or software doesn't crash. I've used Macs also and know they are not perfect. I can remember the appletalk networking on Mac and if you didn't hold your mouth just right computers on the network would freeze unexpectedly and you see this bubble come on the screen with a bomb icon in it and a fault message. Boom, crash :D :D External scsi devices were a treat also, the system would freeze unexspectedly and sometimes when I would be saving something like an update or chart for my thesis.  smiley_argue01

[SwampDonkey]

Slowzuki, I believe it was OS 6.x and 7.x. 9 wasn't out yet and I think early versions of 8.0 was the last for MC68000 cpu's on the Mac. Later versions were written for the PowerPC 603 and up. OS 7.6.1 was run emulated (of the MC68040) on Power Macs. I never used the Power Mac at University, wasn't out. I can run OS 7.6.1 on my Amiga, no problem, SCSI's, CD's the works. Photos in this forum somewhere.  : Removable SCSI media behave just like the Mac, would hang unexpectedly at any time. I mount them as fixed drives, so they don't eject and freeze the OS.

[slowzuki]

yikes, my first experience on a Mac was one of those old os's.  Made me a hater for 15 years until I messed with OSx 10.4 a bit in a store with a 3 button scroll mouse.  I was really blown away.
Ken

Slowzuki, I believe it was OS 6.x and 7.x. 9 wasn't out yet and I think early versions of 8.0 was the last for MC68000 cpu's on the Mac. Later versions were written for the PowerPC 603 and up. OS 7.6.1 was run emulated (of the MC68040) on Power Macs. I never used the Power Mac at University, wasn't out. I can run OS 7.6.1 on my Amiga, no problem, SCSI's, CD's the works. Photos in this forum somewhere.  : Removable SCSI media behave just like the Mac, would hang unexpectedly at any time. I mount them as fixed drives, so they don't eject and freeze the OS.

[PineNut]

I got my first computer around 1977. Was looking at an apple but then they dumped all of the small dealers that supported them and decided to go big time. So I went another direction. I had a Digital Group computer. Had to build it up from component pieces, like stuff and solder up the boards. The company didn't survive for many years but it was a learning experience for me. Had to program at first in machine language. My son who was in the sixth grade at the time became the chief programmer. Sure glad we have more options now.

Now I use the PC, not because I like Microsoft but because it is more of a standard. I like having multiple sources as much as possible. I would like to get away from Windows but unfortunately; too many of the application programs we run are only written for Windows. 

[SwampDonkey]

In the early days of C= you had to do that to Pinenut. The last C= 8 bit (I think) was the C128 or 128D and on the startup screen it makes reference to a 1977 © Microsoft Corporation. It used Microsoft Basic V 7 I think. The companion disk drive could read MSDOS and CP/M 3.0. There is a nifty book on the Rise and Fall of the company. The company started out selling office furniture and typewriters. I found an old C= filing cabinet in a camp/office out on the Queen Charlotte Islands, of all places. :D

[PineNut]

My first computer was pre disc drive. Had to use audio tapes in a cassette player. Then upgraded to cassette tapes in a digital recorder. After that came the 8-inch disc and then the 5-inch disc. Each one was an improvement over the other. Seems like it took forever to read in a 500 byte OS. Total RAM on that first one was only 2KB. Very limited in what you could do so I will let the good old days rest in peace.

I think I still have parts of the old system in the junk pile somewhere.

[SwampDonkey]

Yeah, mine first computer had a datasette recorder, just regular audio tapes. It had 16 colors and a 320x256 pixel display, 20 kb and a 3 voice sound chip. You could plug in cartridges in the back that had programs on them. It was also quite limited, and was the precursor to the C=64. Boys with about 38 kb free out of 64kb, you could sure do quite a bit on those. Although, it was terrible slow with 5-1/4" floppies.

[Raphael]

  Gotta be real careful what you say about OS9 around me... ;)  MAC System 9 may be a POS (dunno all my MAC iron is running system 7.x) but OS9 was the most powerful operating system you could buy back in 1980 (it's the only OS I've run that didn't lock up) and without it's big brothers (OS9000 etc.) many of the products you buy would be more expensive and/or more prone to defects...
  There's been a disturbing trend towards putting Windoze on laboratory equipment, at this point one guy with a root kit sitting half way around the world could put us back to about the year 1920.  "Well doctor his serum is kinda yellow so he may have a viral infection, or be going into multiple organ failure or maybe he took a multivitamin this morning."  :
  Sorry I spent three hours rebooting a stupid XP based PC and recalibrating my chemistry analyzer last night while they screamed in my ear about turn around times on the STATs.

  NitrOS9 (a continuosly updated version of OS9) running on a Radio Shack Color Computer with a 1 megahertz clock will run rings around PCs (Personal Computers) with four times the clock speed and memory with zero timing errors.  If I ever get moved into the new office I'll finally get around to setting up my multi-platform network I'll check in on this thread from my CoCo3.  :D

  I do like IBM PC based iron because it's cheap, I have more options when it comes to the OS and software plus they are simple to build and upgrade.  My 128k CoCo3 is actually the only computer I ever purchased new.  Thre last three complete PCs I purchased cost $25 each for the first two and the third got thrown in free.

[Tom Sawyer]

I converted to Mac a bit less than 2 years ago.  I will NEVER buy another PC.  Although it is true that Macs have their problems and the idea that they are immune to viruses, etc. is not completely true, I spend no time or money keeping the bad stuff off and have not been infected once.  I defy any PC owner to be able to say that 2 weeks after pulling a PC out of the box, let alone 2 years.  In fact, my last PC came out of the box infected with a spyware program that Microsoft put in with Internet Explorer!

I believe that for most people who want to use a computer for email and internet, but don't want to spend a lot of time learning techno jargon, the Mac is infinitely superior.

My $.02

Tom

[beenthere]

The discussions remind me of similar ones years back over 8 track vs cassette audio tapes, and Beta vs VHS video tapes. One wins, the other loses, and its just a matter of time. Doesn't seem to be how good the quality is either.
I ain't changin, fer sur   ;D   

[SwampDonkey]

Mines better'n yours.  ;D :D :D :D

[slowzuki]

Swampy you sound like you're itches to get a COD load of Timex sinclair gear mailed to you  8) 8)

Mines better'n yours.  ;D :D :D :D

[Raphael]

  Although it is true that Macs have their problems and the idea that they are immune to viruses, etc. is not completely true, I spend no time or money keeping the bad stuff off and have not been infected once.  I defy any PC owner to be able to say that 2 weeks after pulling a PC out of the box, let alone 2 years.  In fact, my last PC came out of the box infected with a spyware program that Microsoft put in with Internet Explorer!

  These days Windoze is a spyware program...  I've had exactly one virus infect a system in 21+ years of running IBM PC based iron and that one I launched myself just to see what it would do (it didn't match anything I could find documentation on)... What a mess.  :
  I also had one spyware program running for a couple of months because it was the only free program I could find that would do the job.  I just denied it acces to a port so it couldn't report the information it was gathering, eventually the clicking it created as it went from directory to directory drove me batty so I got rid of it and took a crowbar to my wallet.
  With either platform the most important thing is to know the weaknesses of the system you are running and check the source when adding anything to it.  The things I liked most about a MAC were the controls for allocation of CPU time/memory to various programs and being able to control which extensions were loaded when I rebooted, do they still do that?.  After all why bog down the machine with a bunch of stuff you aren't going to use.  :

[SwampDonkey]

Never seen that in Mac, but I have seen what you describe in Amiga OS. You could set priority and how much CPU horsepower to a particular program. This was part of the multi tasking environment of the OS. In Windows it was task swapping, not really multitasking until more recent versions of the OS were released. It was nice to be rendering digital scenery in one program and at the same time be running a MOD player and also surfing the net.