Should I buy my first mill new or used?

[gjgauthier]

Guys - I need some sage advice so I'm not kicking myself later. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on my first mill. I've got a couple models that will fit my application. I'm down to a WMLT40SH or TK2000. The question now is; new or used? I can see both sides. If I buy used I save thousands and likely get extra parts and accessories thrown in but I've got to assess the condition which I don't have the experience to do. If I buy new I pay more but have the security that comes with knowing that everything is new, it has the latest features and mods built in and I have the factory's interest in seeing that I'm a satisfied customer. What would you say to a rookie?

The second question is gas or diesel? Would I regret buying a little bigger engine package and is it worth jumping up to the diesel option? My inclination is to buy a little more now and be happier later. I just don't know if that could back-fire on me anywhere or if I'm trowing cash at something that may never show a financial return.

What do you think?

[Chuck White]

Congratulations on stepping up to the plate!

Many of us have had good fortune going with a used mill.
I suppose there are a few that just don't pan out.
My suggestion would be to look for used and if you find something you're interested in, go and watch it saw a few logs.
Check the quality of the lumber that comes off the mill.
Ask questions.
I would think that on average you could expect to save around 1/3 by buying used.
When I bought my mill, it was 13 years old and only had 487 hours on it!
I went right to work running it on mobile sawjobs.
It didn't need anything done to it.

[red oaks lumber]

if your planning on sawing more than partime, go new and go diesel. you can get new with all the bells and whistles and still spend alot less than a new pickup costs  and make money with the mill.










i see orange in your future :D

[Nomad]

     Welcome to the Forum, gjgauthier.  You're planning to step into the high cotton right off the bat! 
     Either mill is a great piece of machinery, and neither one is cheap.  It's up to you whether or not your decision backfires on you.  Are you sure this is a step you want to make?  Good mills hold their value, true.  But there is still some depreciation on a new mill. 
     Buying new has it's advantages; the warranty being the biggest in my opinion.
     Diesel or gas?  Personal preference.  Me, I'd go for a diesel hands down.  But that's just one man's personal opinion.
     Red Oaks replied while I was typing.  I guess I just echoed his opinion, too.

[Ohio_Bill]

Sold my LT 40 which I bought new in 2001 and had all intensions of buying a new LT40 hyd. I found a used LT40 super with remote on Woodmizers  Web site for sale by the owner , was able to buy way more mill than I could have been able to afford if I bought new .

[Brucer]

Used mills can be very, very good, or they can be a complete disaster. The couple who bought my first mill got a terrific deal. The mill was in excellent condition, maintained by the book, and selling for about $1000 less than it was worth (just because I needed to sell it and upgrade fast). Best of all it still had a year on the warranty.

I saw one for sale a few years back that would need at least $1500 dollars worth of parts just to make it cut accurately. I'd hate to see a novice buy that one.

There are some clues to give you an idea of what you're getting. Ask to see the manuals. If they can't be supplied, walk away from it. You have no clue how well the machine was maintained )and neither does the owner).

If the manual's available, look to see if there is a log of repairs in it (Wood-Mizer manuals have a checklist for recording routine maintenance). See if the owner has listed all the routine maintenance activities. Of course some people maintain by the book but don't bother to record it. Others don't bother to do the maintenance.

Ask the owner about repairs an maintenance. If the person is offhand about it, or doesn't want to talk about it, walk away. If the person explains everything and even shows you how to deal with the tricky bits, then you're probably looking at a well-maintained mill.

Just talking about maintenance with the owner will give you a sense of how he/she felt about maintenance. Your intuition about the person is an excellent guide.

[bandmiller2]

I've never heard anyone say they wished they bought a smaller mill with less power.A good mill looks like a good mill,beware of a freash paint job. Frank C.

[MHineman]

  New or used, Wood-Mizer wants you to succeed.  They offer unbelievable support and I've never been unhappy with their techs. 

  I bought my 1999 LT40 used in 2004.  The previous owner lived less than 2 miles from me and gave me help getting started.  I never did go to Wood-Mizer for new owner training.  I should have done that and saved me some time getting my knowledge level to where it needed to be.

  I not even sure if Wood-Mizer charges for new owner training.

[Cutting Edge]

I had full intensions of building my first mill, but I had a deal fall in my lap.  More HP, hydraullics,low hrs, and mobile for a little bit more than building a nice manual mill. 

I say the same on maintenance...a persons attitude about an oil can and grease gun will show fast.  On their face, and on the mill too.  And insist on sawing with it...if they drag their feet about it....Yes, walk away.

[colinofthewoods]

Because you are looking at a good sized mill to begin with, I would suggest new.

If it was the difference of buying a small new mill or a larger used one,  I would go with the latter, providing it is in good shape.

good luck with your purchase

Wish I was in your position !

[stavebuyer]

The "financial return" will be negative on a new mill unless your business plan works..depreciation on a new mill is "real".... you won't be able to re-sell a new mill for what you paid for it. A used mill bought in this market may actually increase in value while you "depreciate it" on your books. Be sure to include the capital and operating costs of any support equipment(trucks,trailers,edger,loader etc.) if your planning on selling lumber or sawing at a fixed location. I'd go with used unless I was confident of having adequate profitable orders. New or used the bells & whistles(hydraulics,setworks,debarker,log turner) are worth the cost.

[ladylake]

If your going to saw a lot get the diesel, you'll save enough on fuel in 2500 hours plus better resale .   Steve

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

First off Welcome to The Forum Gjgauthier  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) Well Jesi and I  at the stage of buying a mill and I am am coming onto 20yrs of sawing next year and I have done alot of sawing on alot of different types of mills  This will be my 8th sawmill in that time and We are buying Nomads Norwood Lumber Mate 2000  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) the main reasons being that I want to get a mill without any debt but also keep as much cash as we can in the bank to make everything work and set ourselves up as smoothly as possible as the only other its of equipment I will be getting for a start will be a Crane Truck <26000lbs and chainsaws and most likely a lewis winch to pull logs out to where I can load them onto the truck or mill ;)

Ill add for me this will be a test bed to see which way we will be going with the Business if we are doing alot of mobile custom work it will be either a Hyd Band or Lucas Mill if its looking like we will be doing more Production orientated work We will be getting Circular mill ;) 8) 8) Now that being said there is no reason but yourself that can hold you back for making $75k Plus Pa Turnover with a Manual Band you just have to keep that saw in the wood like on any mill ;) ;D 8) 8)

With what you have planned for the mill is it mostly personal or for production custom milling and I take it that you would like hyd to lessen the log handling load on your body which is a fine reason  ;) you wouldnt realy need the super for a start as you could get the 40HD with the 35 Diesel and a few options for under $30K and still have a very productive mill  ;)  New verses Used it all depends with me and it all comes down to little things with me which I wont bother going into  ;) :D Used mills can offer great value but if your a novice at sawmilling some issues induced buy the previous owner ( or maby even yourself at times :D ) may have you scratching your head but thats what everyone here on The Forum  are here for  ;) ;D ;D 8) as long as it is a good machine for the price ;) hell I have put machines together out of a pile of rusty parts which is fine as long s they are not flogged out thats where its better to buy new parts and build the rest yourself  ;)

Its your decision in the end and you have to make a choice your happy with Mate  ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) 8)

Regards Chris

[paul case]

Because you are looking at a good sized mill to begin with, I would suggest new.

If it was the difference of buying a small new mill or a larger used one,  I would go with the latter, providing it is in good shape.

good luck with your purchase

Wish I was in your position !

Welcome colinofthewoods,to the forestry forum.
Tell us a little about yourself. PC

[MotorSeven]

The market on all used equipment is down. I would take advantage of that and buy used(but in good condition). That way if you ever do decide to sell you won't take a beating.

Someday I want to upgrade to a LT35HD, but they are so new, used one's have not hit the market yet. I hope to pick one up in a year or two, but I will not be buying new.

[Kansas]

I would look hard for a used one. Can't say about a Timberking, but on Woodmizer, definitely. Here are a couple of reasons why.

Any bandmill is one you will have to learn how to service and repair. From electrical to mechanical, its going to happen. That warranty might pay for a part you need, but you still have to put it on, as far as I know. There is a reason that most seasoned sawyers that saw full or serious part time have an extensive parts collection; they been there, done that. As stated, Woodmizer has wonderful technical support. I never owned a Timberking sawmill, but did own one of their first talon edgers and their support was outstanding as well.

The second reason is what you are planning on doing. You going to sell lumber? Custom cut? Cut for yourself? It takes a learning curve. You may as well  saw into the dogs of a used mill rather than a new one. Believe me, if its been used at all, its already happened. Getting used to the right blade, right hook angle, kerf, takes time. Plus a sawyer needs to understand his mill. You might saw a little faster and have less downtime with a new mill. But the other stuff will be much more critical for your output. Why make big payments or have a lot of capital tied up during the learning faze. You buy a used mill, learn it, and if a few years down the line, you want more or faster, you will recover more of your money on selling that and getting a new mill.

[Magicman]

I was able to find and buy a used LT40SH/Diesel and there are no regrets.  That was over 10 years ago and the sawmill is worth every penny now that I paid for it.  When I drive up to a saw job, I know that I can easily handle any log that the customer has.  A couple of weeks it was a 45" butt Cypress.  This past week it was a 38" Poplar.  Bigger is better and there will be no reason for a future upgrade.   

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, colinofthewoods.   

[colinofthewoods]

thanks for the welcome fella's.

I have a little wood salvage business on the west coast of Vancouver Island.
Until now all my business has been in hand split materials, rails , planks and pickets from old growth cedar.  Just picked up a little mill and a crane truck so things are on the up and up.

,  already wishing I had taken the plunge and bought something much bigger and pro grade . As it is now I will probably have to upgrade as soon as I sell a bit more wood.