Steep hourly charge in MA and looking for thoughts

[red oaks lumber]

have the second mill do your sawing ,it sounds like a set price. far as wondering if your getting what you want out of the logs or on a cut list, you have to trust us (sawyers) we are professional at what we do.looking at your pictures of the logs they have been laying for awhile so your quality is deminishing spending less money on those logs looks the better way to go. just my opinion. ;)

[metalspinner]

I heard the previous owner of this land sometimes put nails in trees just so they would never be sawed.

What kind of an *^$%@&*(  does that?!? >:(  You would be well advised to invest in a metal detector.  If  you mentioned this to your sawyers, they may be inflating their price to accomodate the expected down time due to nail damage.  With the added machinery costs the $100 guy has, his price is coming more it line, IMHO.

[thecfarm]

If he really did that,I hope he did not,worse comes to worse you would lose about 8-9 feet of every butt log. Would be better than hitting nails on every butt log. I doubt he carried a step ladder around to each tree, But who knows.

[danf26]

Well, I'm not sure if the previous owner did that or not. The folks with the land next to our would know better than anyone. I'll see if I run into them today. I didnt mention this to either sawyer, as I never saw any nails myself, and only vaguely remember hearing this. I might be totally off.

Im leaning towards the stationary mill. I'll just make sure I have as accurate of a lumber list as I can get. I'll go double check all my logs this morning.

Thanks all

[isawlogs]

I would be giving Peter a call.

[Magicman]

Dan,  I'm in CT, about 60 miles from you.   Contact me if you'd like to see if we can come to an agreement.  Peter

I agree with isawlogs.   

[pa_of_6]

danf26

I should get paid as a fortune teller...

In your last post asking for people's opinions as to whether the area was too small, I posted a reply that stated that you wouldn't be happy with the price that fellow gave you...

And I was right....this is too funny!

Now you have a new thread complaining about cost...I don't think you will ever be happy.

Buy some weiners and have a weinie roast with them logs....

[SwampDonkey]

They look like old logs with bark slipped off and stained sapwood and black ends. You going for the spalt look? Maybe the sawyer wants a slice of the gold inside. ;D

[danf26]

I should get paid as a fortune teller...

In your last post asking for people's opinions as to whether the area was too small, I posted a reply that stated that you wouldn't be happy with the price that fellow gave you...

A wiener roast sounds great. You misunderstand though pa_of_6, this fellow is not coming to my site and milling on my site as I was trying to figure out in my last post. His rate I'm 'complaining' about is what he charges for me to come to him. For me to haul him my logs and us mill at his site.

The above-mentioned sawyer is a great guy. I no longer am wondering if hes trying to rip me off, this is just his price.

I'm not trying to complain here, just figure some things out . . .

[pa_of_6]

I should get paid as a fortune teller...

In your last post asking for people's opinions as to whether the area was too small, I posted a reply that stated that you wouldn't be happy with the price that fellow gave you...

A wiener roast sounds great. You misunderstand though pa_of_6, this fellow is not coming to my site and milling on my site as I was trying to figure out in my last post. His rate I'm 'complaining' about is what he charges for me to come to him. For me to haul him my logs and us mill at his site.

The above-mentioned sawyer is a great guy. I no longer am wondering if hes trying to rip me off, this is just his price.

I'm not trying to complain here, just figure some things out . . .

wieners or sausage and whether you want marshmellows after!

I think that is all you have to figure out....JMO

[Magicman]

wieners or sausage and whether you want marshmellows after!

I think that is all you have to figure out....JMO 

That was not nice.   :-\

[beenthere]

........Im leaning towards the stationary mill. I'll just make sure I have as accurate of a lumber list as I can get. I'll go double check all my logs this morning.

Thanks all

It appears you have the cut list of materials expected marked on the ends of the logs. Is that what we are seeing in the pics?
Is that list to be followed by the sawyer and is expected to be cut from each log?

[LeeB]

I suspect Dan came looking for help with a subject he knows little about. I'm pretty sure he didn't come looking for antagonism and ridicule. I for one, tend to agree with him on the feeling that $100/hr is high. I'm not there to see what the actual situation is, therefore cannot offer a truly informed opinion. I do think giving Peter a call would be a good idea if only to get info from another sawyer.  

[Tom]

Danf26, Your cut list should be on paper and arranged such as the sawyer can understand what you want.  Using a cut list means that he will need the quantities and sizes/lengths arranged in a form that he can determine where he stands at any given moment in time.  (Make him a part of creating it)

Unless you have a tree that means a lot to you and you want to use it in a special place, don't try to read the logs for the sawyer.  Reading logs is a sawyer's job and there is more to it than fitting the sizes into the circumference of the little end.   Sawyers train themselves to read logs and to be turned into nothing more than a machine operator is almost a slap in the face.   

It's OK to mark a few and say I would like a 12"x12" x 20' if you think you can get it.  It was planted by my granddaddy and I want to use it in the living room.   But to mark you entire cut list on the ends of each log is telling him that you know more about sawing than he does. 

If it is important to you to know what is made from each log, by all means be there and discuss it with the sawyer.  You might change your mind in mid-stream.  A good custom sawyer won't mind as long as you don't slow him down too much.  Remember that he is trying to make a buck and has a head full of figures as he cuts each log.  He must keep in mind what he is cutting, where he is on each run, what he has done on the other side of the log, where his target is located, what he has removed and what he has left.  That is just the math and he is counting backwards and trying to remember all of that.  On top of that is the reading of the log.  There is the sweep, the knots, the holes and rot, the pith, checking (splits), grain, growth tension and forever having to refer to the cut list. Much of your list might come from the jacket wood on the outside of the log and there will, undoubtedly be lumber created that you never dreamed was in the log.  You should be prepared to pay him for those overages.  They are a sign of a good sawyer as much as just being able to produce what you think you want. 

Most folks find that they never have enough wood for a project anyway.  You might be glad that you don't box yourself in too tightly.

[isawlogs]

wieners or sausage and whether you want marshmellows after!

I think that is all you have to figure out....JMO

Sir, if I had anything to do with it you would be sitting near a certain shed with those wieners.  >:(
It sure was not called for nor appreciated to have an honest question and good advise this thread it would of been better off with out your sorry imput.

[Banjo picker]

I have been keeping up with this post and the only thing I might add would be that  you may be getting charged extra for the 21 footers...and if you told the sawyer about the nails they might have jacked the price up for that as others have said....You should expect to pay a little more for the longer cuts....I can cut up to 24 foot and I had to pay for the prividlege up front when I ordered the mill....I hope you have a good experience with the cutting what ever you do....Tim

[customsawyer]

I will have to through my hat into this ring.
My rates are pretty simple.
You bring the logs to me.    .25 cents per bf
I bring the mill to you.        .30 cents per bf
It don't matter to me, all I am looking for is enough extra to cover the expense of moving equipment. When I move the equipment I bring the mill, tractor and edger with all that equipment if all I made was a $100.00 per hour I would lose my shirt.
The point to this is that if the portable man is bringing all this extra equipment than he has to be able to offset those cost.

[sweetfarm]

I think you are miss reading the post.  For that price he has take the logs to his yard and mill.  The extra equipment is in his own yard.
As for tree huggers putting nails in all the trees, well that's what I would tell people if I was a tree hugger and didn't want the trees cut!.

[WH_Conley]

I believe the extra equipment had it's own charge too. If I read right the $100.00 was just for a LT40HD and sawyer, no off bearer.

[woodsteach]

Have you guys priced a plumber lately???

If you charge XX/bd ft and are happy then great!

I charge $85/hour and both  my customers and I are happy judging by my repeat customers.

For instance:  Here is the cut-list I just milled up 1x7 1/4x12', 1 1/4x6 1/2x10',2 3/4x2 3/4x10', 1x12x16', 5x3 1/2x 16' etc.... white oak

Now where could the customer purchase such odd sizes?

During this order I've unloaded 3 "loads" of logs (time not charged), loaded and helped bind down the load (time not charged), spent at least 2 hrs on the phone at night helping this customer decide what to do (tnc)

Yes that is all part of the job but now my 85/hr breaks down to the 40/hr range. And I've still got a mill shed to clean up!

I love it when the customer stays and helps make decisions as to what to do with the problems that might arise but most of my customers leave it up to me.

Back to the plumber... got to go I've got a leaking pipe!

woods

[windy hill farm]

Hey Dan, have you thought about buying a small mill Lt10 for around $3000. Then  you would have the mill to use for future projects. I don't know if this was a one shot deal, but it sure would be nice to have the mill around for future use. Kevin

[paul case]

Hey Dan, have you thought about buying a small mill Lt10 for around $3000. Then  you would have the mill to use for future projects. I don't know if this was a one shot deal, but it sure would be nice to have the mill around for future use. Kevin

this is what i did. well not an lt 10 but and ez boardwalk. i purchased my mill to cut out a house with. the framing lumber alone would have cost me as much as the mill. i cut out and built the house in about 4 months and i have been sawing for someone else or a market ever since. brand aside, if you are spending the money and want more bang for your buck, buy a mill. it is easy to learn if you have the time. i knew nothing about a bandmill when i bought mine and i have been milling for 2 1/2 years now and it has been a good part time or better income for me.
you could certianly saw them right along your road there and if you could saw 600 bdft per day according to your figures you would be done pretty quick. the extra costs wouldnt be too much. probably only 10 gallons of gas and 1 sharpening on 6 or 8 blades. this is a very viable option.

i wouldnt borrow money to do it but if its yours to spend it deserves some thought. pc

[danf26]

Hey all,

Wow, lots of good ideas. Buying a mill isnt in my cards right now, unfortunately, but I think those of you who suggested that are on the right track. Maybe a few years down the road. With this project right now, I'm deciding to go with the fixed sawyer. He's charging 0.33/BF, and can haul the logs himself and haul back the finished lumber. I'll still be there while the milling is going on.

I dont know about the nails. I still havent been able to ask what they would charge if they hit one (this aint no bandsaw, I suspect it will be much more than $30).

I talked to the $100/hr guy yesterday and I dont feel like hes trying to rip me off, thats just his price. Some people may not have read the whole thread, and $100 an hour is for me to haul the logs to him. For his tractor and forwarder, thats another $150. The $100/hr is for him and one other man (news to me, I didnt know that before). A problem I feel with the per hour charge is if he is sawing so many BF an hour, his price might be comparable to other places. He just cant guarantee that, and then I could find myself feeling way overcharged.

Hes a good guy though, and he wants me to find the best deal I can, whether its with him or not.

Here's pictures of the pile from yesterday. Not the prettiest of piles, but *DanG Im proud:

[danf26]

All the trees are salvaged from a tornado that came thru in 2006. That oak sure hold up well. Not veneer and without its "defects", but surely a part of the (recent) story of this place.

[york]

Hey Dan,better talk to mill operator,about few logs may be "spiked"tree huggers never use box nails -could cost more money,than the spiked log,itself is worth...good luck
Bert