Steep hourly charge in MA and looking for thoughts

[Magicman]

The spiked tree story sound like the watermelon story.  The farmer  posted a sign that said "One Watermelon has been Poisoned".  The next day he saw where someone had One Two.  Now who is eating watermelons  ???

No doubt he may have put the story out, but it would be very doubtful that he actually spiked a tree.

[vfauto]

Im in western Mass. Out in Wendell.

How far is that from Springfield Ma?

[spencerhenry]

i mill sometimes for high end jobs in Aspen, where everything is expensive. the drive to the job is 50 miles one way. i have charged as high as $125/hr plus a helper, but including blades. i had to start telling them that i had a 6 hour minimum at that location. i made a lot of money on that job, but did all the work they said would take me 6 months, in just over 1 month. i have an lt40 super and was milling up to 35 foot timbers out of logs taken out of a log house. i ocassionally hit a nail, or bolt or something, but that was my helpers fault that was his primary job to denail the logs. the last job i did for the same people on a guest house was at the same location, i charged $85 plus blades and helper. i dont think it was enough, but in this market i wanted to make sure they were happy.
my woodmizer is an lt40 super, and if milling 2x or thicker with good logs and an offbearer i think 400 bf an hour would not be hard at all. if he is including blades in that it could get ugly for him in a hurry. back in your neck of the woods that might be really high, but here it is a fair price if including blades and he is coming to you.
if his mill is NOT a super with some horsepower and setworks then i would say it is too high a price for here and way to high for there. the setworks really improves consistency and greatly improves production when cutting 1x or 2x.

[pnyberg]

Im in western Mass. Out in Wendell.

How far is that from Springfield Ma?

45.7 miles.  Google Maps is your friend.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Springfield,+MA&daddr=Wendell,+MA&hl=en&geocode=FetqggIdDV6s-ykfuOQILObmiTG9qrlB2ggYHQ%3BFa87iQIdMFCv-ym92gwS4DbhiTGDFti1kTvpkw&mra=ls&sll=42.101483,-72.589811&sspn=0.205313,0.303154&ie=UTF8&z=10

--Peter

[Jim_Rogers]

I'm on the eastern side of MA and I get paid by the bdft of lumber produced. The only time I charge by the hour is when I'm re-sawing something else other than logs, like salvage timbers.

Sawing by the hour, in my opinion, isn't the best for either the sawyer or the customer. It isn't best for the sawyer, as the customer can stand there and say "hurry up"......I don't want to hear that at all. It isn't best for the customer as the sawyer has to "hurry up" and that can lead to mistakes and bad cuts. And if the sawyer saws slow he feels like he isn't getting his monies worth.

Sawing by the bdft is better as the sawyer can take his time to try and fill the "stock list" prepared by the customer. It doesn't matter to me if I make 6 cuts to get a board/plank or timber or 16 cuts, it's all bdft.
Sawing a mixed list, meaning boards, planks, and timbers, means different handling. Boards and planks can be carried off the mill by hand. But getting timbers off the mill usually means you have to use a fork lift for something to move them out of the way. If I was sawing by the hour then that time would be standard time, not an extra fee added.

Sawing dirty "skidded out" logs takes longer as you have to either clean the logs or if you have a de-barker on your mill, run it on every outside cut.

Years ago, there was a stationary circular sawmill near me; that I used to sell logs to when I was hauling logs with my log truck. They charged $2.50 a tooth, and $9 per shank for metal damage to their blades.
You should check with them as to what they will charge back to you if they hit any "foreign objects". If they don't have a de-barker then they may charge you for "dirty" logs. I would imagine that they do have a de-barker on their rig.

If someone brings there logs to me to be milled here in my yard, I don't usually charge them for unloading their truck or trailer. Unless it is a salvage timber job and then everything is by the hour.
I don't charge them for re-load finished lumber onto their truck or trailer, either.

I do charge for extra long lengths over 16' as I have to pay for my bed extension.
And I do charge for damaged blades.

I also offer a "scanning service" to scan each log for nails. That is by the hour, but no minimum. What I do is start a stop watch and scan and then stop the watch. Whatever time adds up at the end of the job is the "scanning fee". I get $75 per hour for that, and that includes pulling nails found or hit.

A while ago, I used to get $60 per hour for sawing, by the hour. But I did go up to $75 when the price of gas started going up. I may go up again.

Good luck with your milling of your logs. I hope all goes well for you.

Jim Rogers

[Magicman]

I also offer a "scanning service" to scan each log for nails. That is by the hour, but no minimum. What I do is start a stop watch and scan and then stop the watch. Whatever time adds up at the end of the job is the "scanning fee". I get $75 per hour for that, and that includes pulling nails found or hit.  Jim Rogers 

???  Then I would assume that after paying a scanning fee, the customer has no responsibility for nails, etc.  By charging to find and remove them, you have shifted that responsibility to yourself.   ???

[isawlogs]

I have a metal detector here that they can use , but if they ' forget ' any nails or shrapnal inside a log they are still responsable for the blade.

[spencerhenry]

hourly only. i often get asked to resaw a timber, and end up with a 12x12. the timber i start with may be 14x14, but has an inch of twist, and an inch of bow. i cant get what he wants out of the timber, no way no how. people continually want me to get more out of a log or timber than is possible. when i hit a nail, i charge for the blade, and being hourly i dont lose money (time) to change it out. it is in the customers best interest to denail the wood before it gets to me. i charge $20 per blade, which is *DanG near what  a NEW blade costs. i used to charge $15 figuring that i was going to send it off to get sharpened and that only cost about $7. what i found was that some times the metal that i hit ruined the blade, or after the nail the blade got too hot and was now no good. i got some blades back that were sharp, but wouldnt cut for beans. a mill owner has to figure in for all the time behind the scenes, oil changes, parts, keeping the mill adjusted, disposing of slabs, disposing of sawdust, etc... it all adds up and i have found that maintaining the mill and keeping up with waste takes a fair amount of time. then there is the ownership tax, and license plates. the total registration on just my edger is about $150 per year. for each customer that i actually cut for, i have probably 2 or 3 phone calls, maybe an email or 2, some want to come see my operation first, all said i probably have an hour or two into the job before the customer even shows up. then when they show up, their trailer cant be loaded with forks because it has side rails or fenders, then i end up giving them enough stickers to get the load high enough off the deck to load with forks. now i have to make more stickers.
if the guy quoted a price and you dont like it, find someone else.

[Magicman]

I have a metal detector here that they can use , but if they ' forget ' any nails or shrapnal inside a log they are still responsable for the blade.

I operate the same way.  It's their nails and their responsibility.   I went up from $20 to $25 this year to cover my time changing the blade.

Actually, I hit very few nails per year, and it's mostly in ERC. 



Even the best detectors won't find rocks.  This one was in a crotch.

[Banjo picker]

Magicman if they would invent one that would find rocks...I wouldn't get to mill very much..as I would be out looking for arrowheads  Tim

[Magicman]

I guess that it would also need a "picture taker" hooked to it so you could see the shape.  ;D

[Jim_Rogers]

I also offer a "scanning service" to scan each log for nails. That is by the hour, but no minimum. What I do is start a stop watch and scan and then stop the watch. Whatever time adds up at the end of the job is the "scanning fee". I get $75 per hour for that, and that includes pulling nails found or hit.  Jim Rogers 

???  Then I would assume that after paying a scanning fee, the customer has no responsibility for nails, etc.  By charging to find and remove them, you have shifted that responsibility to yourself.   ???

No, they still have to pay if I hit an interior nail. But this usually is ok with the customer.

[Magicman]

The main thing is that all is understood between the sawyer and customer before sawing begins.