I am finally wrapping up the final details on my Nyle L53 Kiln. I used 2 x 6" for the wall studs over an insulated slab. I used R19 batting between the studs. Then added 2" of blue foam, 1" of aluminum covered foam, and finally 1/2" of CDX plywood. The ceiling was trusses with batting, then the same two foams and the CDX Plywood. I'll be making a rail system to guide the cart in and out of the kiln.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/Front_of_Kiln.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/Outside_of_Kiln.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/Inside_Kiln.jpg)
Glenn1,
Why did you choose the L53 over a solar Kiln?
Baron
I've got way to many trees on my property and would only get 3-4 hours of sunlight at best. Plus, I'd like to be able to turn out kd lumber every 7-10 days (after air drying).
Glenn
Hey Glenn, I like your kiln. Keep the pics coming. Did you put plywood over the blue stryofoam to protect it from being damaged when loading.
I'm trying to decide which way to go and I wish I could use the L53 in addition to or attached to a solar kiln.
Yes, keep the pics coming. It's looking fun.
On top of the blue 2" foam, I will put 1" of Dow Thermax which has an aluminum face. Then 6 mil of plastic as a vapor barrier and finally 1/2" of outdoor plywood. I am using stainless steel screws to limit any rust problems in the future and then use an aluminum roofing compound to completely cover the plywood.
Glenn
Glenn,
Looks like that you are doing an excellent job.
Good looking build, won't be long now.
YH
Thanks guys. It is taking longer than I anticipated with some backorders slowing the process. Also the weather has me behind schedule a bit but I hope to have it running by mid March. I've got one door finished and the second one should be finished today. I have 4 -12" hinges for each door and I need every inch of the hinge as these doors are heavy!
Here are a couple more photos of my L53. So far, there is 6 inching of batting between the studs, then 2" of Dow Insulation Board, and now 1" of Dow Thermax. Next will be the 6 mil vapor barrier, and the 1/2" CDX. The final treatment will be an aluminum roofing coating to handle the heat. Also 1 1/2 doors are now finished.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/Thermax_2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/Thermax_Insulation~0.jpg)
Roof coating on the inside? Wont that make a mess.
I've been told from very good authorities that I will need to use aluminum mobile home roof paint to coat the plywood. I guess will just have to be careful. :D
I know this has got to be a dumb question but why waste the money on the plywood since your not going to touch the walls with anything. I've seen kiln with sprayed in foam and they don't cover the foam up. Seems to me that adding plywood begs moisture problems.
Baron
I encourage you to skip the coating. You will create an envelop effect where any water that gets into the plywood cannot get out...plastic vapor barrier on one side and the coating on the other. Decay expected and other fungi.
You are also doing the same thing with the foil insulation...a double vapor barrier. If using poly, then perforate the aluminum.
Looks real good. I'm no expert by no means but I agree with Gene 2 vapor barriers could be a problem.I looks like you have done a good job fitting every thing and sealing the joints. I also think I would skip the roof coating. I used some once on a mobile home roof and I think it never gets hard. Kiln temps. might make it slide off the walls and roof. That would not be be good. JMHO. Keep the pics coming. Dean 3D Lumber
The aluminum roofing paint works fine. No issues with heat. A little messy to put on, but dries. The Nyle kiln plan for the L53 calls for the final coat of aluminum paint.
x2
Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on February 07, 2015, 11:41:37 PM
I encourage you to skip the coating. You will create an envelop effect where any water that gets into the plywood cannot get out...plastic vapor barrier on one side and the coating on the other. Decay expected and other fungi.
You are also doing the same thing with the foil insulation...a double vapor barrier. If using poly, then perforate the aluminum.
Since the Thermax has an aluminum backing on both sides, can I skip the vapor barrier?
Glenn
Are we talking about aluminum paint or roof coating? There is a big difference . Imo paint could breathe better than roof coating.
Glenn,
No. Put the vapor barrier (poly) over the foil backed insulation, then add the pressure treated plywood, then the aluminum roofing paint.
Just wondering if you have your kiln finished. If so send some pics.
I'm getting closer. The 1/2 CDX has been installed and I need to put up 2x4 around the inside of the kiln to work with the baffles. The doors are on but I still need to put the aluminum siding on the front of the kiln.
I have been working on a separate control booth that houses the Nyle controls. I will be putting aluminum siding on it too to make sure that it is waterproof (using spray foam in any gaps for added security. Also, there is a waterproof foam strip that fits just inside the door on all sides to keep it water tight.
I'll try to post pictures later this week.
Glenn
The kiln controller unit is not supposed to be exposed to freezing temps. At least that is what the manual says.
WDH, I was planning on having a light bulb on 24/7 during cold weather. If that is not correct, what would you suggest?
Glenn,
I do the light bulb thing, too.
Thanks WDH. I always appreciate your input.
Glenn
WDH, I don't want to overheat the controller so I am wondering what wattage bulb you are using. Is it an incandescent or a halogen?
Glenn
I use a 60 watt incandescent.
You could use a temperature controlled outlet for that light. We use them in well pump houses for small space heaters. About the size of a pack of cigarettes. You plug it into any outlet, then plug your heater, or in your case light, into it. Set the temperature for 40 degrees or so and the light comes on when temps drop below and off when they go above whatever you set it for. They sell them at our lumber yard, or certainly any home improvement store.
Thanks Jim, I went ahead and ordered one from Amazon. The temperature of the air needs to be 80 degrees or more for the compressor to work. This should do the job with the light bulb.
I believe that the 80 degree temp is the dry bulb (air temp) that you must reach inside the kiln chamber for the compressor to operate. The kiln controller is located outside the chamber, and the manual says that the controller needs to be kept above freezing as the kiln operates.
WDH, Thanks for the clarification.....my mistake. ;D
I bolted a fold down door, weatherproof truck toolbox to the outside of my kiln, and it houses the controller, scales for weighing samples, moisture meter, pens, an EMC chart, etc, and a light socket and bare incandescent bulb. The bulb keeps everything nice and warm, and doubles as a, well, as a light ;D so I can see when I check my kilns at night, which is most of the time in the winter. I leave the light bulb on 24/7 during the winter months.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~98.jpg)
Even though the compressor will operate down to 70F air temp in the chamber, the controller won't initially close the compressor relay until it measures at least 80F in the chamber. Below that temperature, the controller will only engage the heat strips and wait until 80F is attained, at which point the strips are turned off and compressor is automatically started. I use 2kW of halogen interior chamber lights to significantly shorten the preheat cycle by many hours, as the unit only has a single 1 kW heater pack.
Also, in order test the compressor function in temps below 80F, place the temperature probe in front of a halogen light to warm it up, or hold it in your hands, to trick the controller to turn the compressor on. This is not a recommended practice as it will cause pressure issues in the compressor if run too long, but sooner or later you, or your HVAC guy, will need to use this trick to debug or field test the equipment.
YH
Glenn are you drying lumber yet?
WDH, could you put on some pics of your l53 kiln, got at least another week of recovery before going back to work. Trying to get kiln plans figured out. Thank you .
Hi Dean,
I wish I was finished. Still need to run 125 feet of cable from the house to the kiln and then wire up the units. From there, I should be able to run my first load of air dried walnut. I also need to fabricate my steel kiln cart since I have an end loader.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/0301151044a.jpg)
Hi Glenn looks good, thanks for the pics, be glad when I can go back to work. Then I also get back to work on my mill/ kiln site. I wish I was as far along as you. Between working till dark snow rain and surgery I am really behind. But God willing I can get back on it soon. Dean
Dean,
What type of surgery sidelined you?
Dean,
Here are a few pics. My kiln is a front load kiln. I make 320 BF pallets and pre-dry-air-dry the lumber, although I have dried 7 or 8 loads from green. Better to let nature do some of the heavy work before going into the kiln. I can stack 3 pallets high, so that is a maximum load of 960 BF. For all species of wood that is air dried to 30% or less, I can dry 960 BF. I can also dry 960 BF of green oak. However, for fast drying species like pine and yellow poplar, you can only dry about 400 BF if the wood is green. About 600 BF for green medium drying wood like walnut and cherry. So air drying beforehand allows you to maximize the kiln's capacity.
Floor is 2x9 joists on a concrete carport. There is a treated plywood bottom under the joists, and the floor is sitting on treated 2x4 sleepers that are laying flat on the concrete to create a 1.5" air space between the bottom of the kiln chamber floor and the concrete. The concrete has been sealed to minimize moisture from the concrete. The joist bays are filled with 9" fiberglass insulation (R-30) with no vapor barrier. Then, there is a layer of 2" rigid foam, then a poly vapor barrier, then treated plywood for floor.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/025~0.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/027.JPG)
Walls are a full 2x6 with 9" of fiberglass, then topped with 2" of rigid foam, then a layer of 1/2" foil backed foam board, then poly vapor barrier, then 1/2" treated plywood. Wall and ceiling are R-45.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/032~0.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/037.JPG)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/046.JPG)
Doors are 12' wide, 6' to the side. A trailer cam-door lock latches the door and pushes it tight against the seals.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/052.JPG)
The kiln Controller is located in a box on the backside of the kiln. The light bulb is for heat when the temps are below freezing so that the kiln controller does not freeze.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/055.JPG)
The inside of the kiln is painted with aluminum roofing paint, and all the joints are sealed with foam and high temp silicon. The dehumidification unit sits on a table in the back. The top of the unit sits above a shelf that runs across the back of the chamber. That is where the two fans are located, and blow out at 45 degrees. I put two additional fans in the corners to supplement air flow. Since, then, I have added two more, one on each side between the corner fans and the unit fans. Total of 5100 CFM's of air flow.
Here is the finished chamber. The door seals are a kit from Nyle.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/Kiln_1.JPG)
Here is the first load of green pine. The baffles are 1" rigid foam panels. Much much lighter than the plywood that is called for in the Nyle plans.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/060.JPG)
Thanks to Yellowhammer for letting me pick his brain and use his experience to build the chamber. I think that three things are very important.
1). Make the chamber big enough to hold up to 1000 BF of lumber with a foot on either side of the load (for a front load kiln), with 2 feet between the back of the load and the Unit, and 2 feet between the door and the front of the load. My side space is limited because of the width of the carport that the chamber is built under. I wish there was more room on each side of the load. I can dry up to 10.5' long lumber.
2). Make it easy to load with equipment. You do not want to be hand stacking and unstacking the boards in the chamber.
3). Don't skimp on insulation.
Those are excellent photos and a very helpful tutorial...
How are you doing Glenn, hernia surgery, I go back to doc thur. Hope he let's me go back to work.
Hi WDH the pics are great . That is a good looking kiln . Thanks also for the explanations . I am setting by the studying them right now, the walls are closing in on me. Be glad when I can get back to work.
Thanks for your concern Glenn and your info / pics WDH
Dean
Glenn, would you care if I would stop by sometimes and take a look? What side of WS are you on? Ricky
You are more than welcome to come and visit. PM has been sent.
When using light bulbs for heat, I would recommend using two bulbs wired in series. The life span for one bulb is measure in weeks for continuous operation while the life span for two bulbs in series will be measured in years. Both bulbs should be the same size (watts). They will not be as near as bright but when you want heat, that doesn't make any difference.
Here are a couple of my completed kiln pictures:
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/0410151920a.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/37307/download~0.jpg)
Looks great!
Looks good Glenn, good idea on the lights. Was it not getting hot enough without the lights.
What are triangle boxes on the shelf. It looks like you decided not to put the roof coating on the walls.
I've learned alot from WDH and Yellow Hammer. I added the halogens to speed it the heating process and to raise the heat during the sterilization cycle.
There are currently 3 triangle boxes housing fans with one more to come. The two fans that they supply really don't give enough air circulation so I have individual toggles on them to add as needed.
I got lazy and did not put the roof coating on the plywood. I'll see how it goes without it.
The extra fans really help, thanks to Yellowhammer.
X2 smiley_thumbsup_grin
Pinenut, could you explain what you mean with wiring 2 lights together so they last longer ? Thanks! Awesome kiln! Great wealth of knowledge on here