is it that holds it leaves during the winter.
Red oak holds it leaves, red oak has pointed leaves and white or burr oak has rounded leaves. Steve
Still green or dead? Liveoak is somewhat evergreen in that it doesn't drop it's leaves until spring.
I think the oaks in my area just wait for a frost/freeze to start dropping and if we don't get a good one then the new leaves push the old ones off.
In our yard it's white oak that holds some leaves the longest, northern red's all drop off quickly.
Not right. I could put a pic up of red oak trees in my front yard with the leaves still on. looking at them right now and it's been a cold winter. White oak leaves are gone long . Steve
If the leaves are still green, then it is live oak, of which there are several different species. If the leaves are brown but have not dropped, then there are a few species of red oak that do not drop all their leaves in the fall.
I have a white oak in the yard that holds it's leaves all winter. The neighbors when they first came here thought my tree was dead that first winter. My red oaks, I have several, all drop leaves in the fall. The white oak has red foliage and is much prettier than the reds. The reds will go yellow and quickly turn dead brown then drop in the fall winds.
I think some have red and white oak mixed up. If it has pointy leaves it's red oak, look it up. Steve
I really don't think they are mixed up at all. In fact I'm 100 % certain this one isn't mixed up. :D
Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 08, 2014, 04:38:39 PM
I have a white oak in the yard that holds it's leaves all winter. The neighbors when they first came here thought my tree was dead that first winter. My red oaks, I have several, all drop leaves in the fall. The white oak has red foliage and is much prettier than the reds. The reds will go yellow and quickly turn dead brown then drop in the fall winds.
Exactly opposite . Red oak trees have the really red leaves in the fall when they turn and there still a reddish tint now (I'm looking at them), white oak are way more pale tan or brown and are gone a long time now. Steve
There are some cultivars of red oak that do have red fall foliage, I have a few, but they came from a camp ground and I'm not sure of the origins. But the local ones in my area like on Mars Hill, Oak mountain and Oakland all go yellow then brown. They are red oak 100 %. Those hills are all bald as a billiard. All of them including the red foliage ones are bare here in the yard and always blow away in November winds. My white oak still has leaves and they will drop in about May just before bud break. The red foliaged red oak have a bit different leaf shape, still bristle tipped, so they could be black oak maybe. Not sure. If anyone wants to come up this October, I'll show ya yellow red oak leaves, and in fact there will be brown already showing up as soon as they go yellow. They are the least colorful of any tree around. A pin cherry, now there is some red for ya, take your eyeballs out they're so bright red. I've traveled in the western part of VA in October before and those hills are yellow and brown with red oaks. Ask anyone who lives there.
The only oak in my woods that holds leaves all winter until the new leaves push them off is what I have always known as a "post" oak. I don't know which of the other oaks it is a cousin to but red oaks here do not hold very many leaves through the winter. White oaks leaves last a little longer than reds but only the post oak leaves last all winter. My terminology could be wrong about what I know as a post oak.
My white oak here is from Exitor, NH. It's a native white oak down there. Up here we have some towns that plant English white oak, but not this tree. Our native white oak in NB is actually bur oak and is very rare here. You won't even see it on most range maps, except 'Native Trees of Canada' will show it around Grand Lake.
For what it's worth,
http://treenotes.blogspot.com/2009/02/nine-native-trees-that-hold-leaves-in.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcescence
If it's on the Internet, it has to be true ;D
I didn't know any of this till I looked it up. Other than I always thought it was the white oak that held its leaves over winter.
Live Oak
I have a Red Oak in my back yard that drops all of the leaves from the upper portion in the Fall. The one lowest limb holds the brown leaves until Spring. The other Red Oaks in the yard drop them all in the Fall.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/2410/DSCN1238.JPG)
This one is the same every year. The upper leaves fall and the lower leaves stay.
The leaves fall off the tree because of a layer of cells that forms and closes off the end where the leaf was attached; this protects the tree from drying out, entry by fungi, etc. when the leaf separates and falls off. This separation region is called the abscission layer or zone. This layer of cells often is not very strong, and so the leaf separates from the tree easily (slight wind or gravity) and safely (that attachment spot is sealed by the abscission zone cells).
Many trees form this zone in the early fall, and then the leaves drop off. In some trees, this abscission zone does not always form in the early fall season, but may form later in the fall or even in the spring. (Some scientist say that the zone actually forms in the fall but it is very strong and that is why the leaves stay attached for a long time.) This delay in the formation of abscission zone, or its high strength, is more common in younger trees, or the lower branches of older trees. With their lower branches holding leaves, they are feeding some of the four-legged wild animals that need food, but could not reach under the snow or reach if the leaves were too high. It is amazing that Creation has so many examples of this symbiotic relationship between two different organic species.
Anyway, some oaks (especially post oak and white oak which are in the white oak group; pin oak, northern red oak and Schumard oak which are in the red oak group), American beech (especially younger trees) and hop hornbeam are well know species that keep their brown, dead leaves for a while. Note that the leaves in this instance are brown. If the leaves were green, then we would call it an evergreen (even though evergreens loose their leaves or needles in the springtime); both tan oak and live oak are evergreens.
NOTE TO ALL FF READERS--The following will be on the quiz that will be given next week: This retention of dead leaves in the wintertime is known as marcescence (mahr-ses-uhns).
Thank you Gene for explaining why the lower limb on my Red Oak always keeps it's brown leaves until Spring. Now I know that it is nonsense marcescence. :D
Marcescence. I like it.
Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on March 08, 2014, 09:09:25 PM
NOTE TO ALL FF READERS--The following will be on the quiz that will be given next week: This retention of dead leaves in the wintertime is known as marcescence (mahr-ses-uhnt).
Haven't been tested on this subject since I was sitting in Doug Wilkerson's class some thirty years ago, ;D
WDH...somehow, I just knew that you would dig that word... ;) ;D ;D That is almost as good as "Deliquescence".
Quote from: WDH on October 17, 2012, 09:17:56 PM
Hey, I am vindicated... If he had mentioned deliquescent branching habits in oak or maple or rhytidomes in the inner bark of some elms, then I would have been worried :-\.
This is interesting regarding the oak leaves. all the oaks in my area are bare by January, except for a few pin oaks. I have a patch of high bush blueberries that are leafless, with the exception of two, which have retained all their fall foliage. they do this every year, and only lose them is the following spring when new growth pushes them off.
Although softwood generally shed needles in the spring, they are retained 7-10 years in eastern spruce and balsam fir. White pine for 2 -3 years and are shed also at the end of the growing season or beginning of the next. That has earned it the name 'dirty pine' in camp yards because it's dropping needles more frequently. ;D Having the needles retained at the end of the season for those growing Christmas trees is a good trait, as people don't want a mess of needles in the den. Some still drop because of drying and handling of course. ;)
I have had friends ask me this same question about oaks keeping their leaves. Not that I am an expert by any means, but my daughters have tagged my wife and I as "bird nerds" and "tree geeks". I have tried to find some kind of answer for them and myself. Having the same tree having leaves that fall and some that don't has been very confusing. Now thanks to The Forestry Forum Center for Genius Activities I now have a new word to sport about.
For those of us in the "Grits Belt" States, we have about 15 different species of oak separated into the white and red oak families. On my piece of the south, I have 5.
Quote from: DeepWoods on March 08, 2014, 08:12:14 PM
For what it's worth,
http://treenotes.blogspot.com/2009/02/nine-native-trees-that-hold-leaves-in.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcescence
If it's on the Internet, it has to be true ;D
I didn't know any of this till I looked it up. Other than I always thought it was the white oak that held its leaves over winter.
This is it, I just could not remember the name, upon spring the leaves will fall, then regenerate, we have a mix of these in so. mo.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/28428/DSCN3230.JPG) LIVE OAK.
Let's see. On my place I have pin oak, red oak, post oak, chinkapin oak, black oak, shingle oak, white oak, bur oak. Additionally we planted swamp white oak, shumard oak, scarlet oak and willow oak. That's a lot of happy oaks. ;D
The further south you go, the more different oaks you get, at least until you get to Central America. Even in the SW deserts, you find many oaks, especially at the middle and upper elevations. Arizona has 12 or 13 species, depending upon whose terminology you believe. All but one of these are evergreen types. When you get into the mountains of Mexico there are bunches of different, mostly evergreen oaks. 8) 8) 8)
My Mississippi Trees book that serves me as a tree identification guide list 35 different Oak varieties. :o
We have 2 in NB, it's much easier, since one is rare. :D
This thread is one reason I like Forestry Forum so much.
David L.