iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Allthread in log walls/securing roof.

Started by Coastallogger, October 07, 2021, 02:18:53 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Coastallogger

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on October 09, 2021, 01:12:49 PM
Quote from: Coastallogger on October 08, 2021, 05:46:46 PM
Quote from: Don P on October 08, 2021, 08:23:22 AM
It's been awhile since I checked priced but lags to structural screws was not a big material cost advantage, it was labor. When we did that for a living the structural screws were coming in towards the end. I would stock a few boxes of lags when we started those jobs. The withdrawal strength of a lag, its ability to pull ornery logs and timbers around, was higher than structural screws. If the log screws wouldn't pill things tight we would break out the lags.

On hanging up, divergent fastener angles, a trim nail, caulk on the vertical trim is an adhesive. Twist, binding log to fastener. Friction. Just remember shrinkage and settlement are 2 different things, hopefully related, but alas, not necessarily :D.

What are the issues with getting to frost depth and coming out of the dirt with masonry? Untreated foundation with a little flamethrower treatment and some fungi food applied is no match for soil borne rotters. You'll be revisiting that within a decade, probably with internal galleries up into the main structure.

I can't remember which of you was mentioning using bubble wrap. I had a client fall for that once, unfortunately on a million dollar home. If you feel warming going on it is because that thing is bleeding btu's. Only after the fact did I learn of the Federal Trade Commission's issues with their claims. Bubble wrap, foil or not, is a packaging material. It is a poor insulator and reflective barriers do have caveats with them.

Do remember when looking at alternatives that builders run in a competitive environment. If it is cheaper, easier, or works better for the buck you will see them adopting.  

Wow, that was a downer, well, better I guess to have the good and bad in mind. Gotta go unload a fridge so we can move it and drop a floor out from under it, the bugs had a party.
I made a reply to this earlier but it didn't show up here so forgive me if I am missing it and repeating myself.
Do I understand you right that the screws will lose their tension with shrinkage/settlement? In that case they won't make a replacement for allthread at the corners for transferring tension all the way to the bottom logs.
I think you have me sold on structural screw for keeping the courses in line, and the larger lag screws if those strip on a particularly twisted log as those have more biting power I hear.
The issues with going below frost line with masonry is the frost line is pretty deep where I am 6.5 feet or so. Which makes for a huge volume of masonry. Since I know little about masonry, and I am roughing it until I can move into my build, the extra time and money will be a buzzkill. Plus if I get something wrong, it's a much bigger headache to fix than floating "piers" where if I get ten years out of em before replacing, I will still probably have saved time and money by the time I die compared to masonry, even if I got it right. I am concerned about creating a "ladder" to the sill logs for soil-borne decomposers, but thought a capillary break on the top would be an effective barrier against that. I am reading borate works against fungi as well, but really mixed reviews on Shou Sugi Ban. But really it doesn't have to last forever since it will be so easy to jack a corner and slip a new one in. Would take a guy an afternoon.
It is me considering the bubble wrap. I am interested to hear what issues your client had with it and how it was put on. My plan was to put it in a continuous sheet between the log joists and subfloor, or between the subfloor and finish flooring. That would give a vapor barrier and provide protection against radiant heat escape. Then if that proves to be not enough insulation, the joists would be spaced 22 1/2 apart, so I can crawl under and put in rock wool sized for 24 OC joists, then cover it up with plywood and/or hardware cloth.
Then if the bubble wrap turned out to not be great at keeping me warm, at least it still serves as a vapor barrier and thermal break to help with thermal bridging of the joists.
The issues I hear of people who use fiberglass and similar under their log cabins is that critters and bugs love to nest in it. And it can be difficult to seal your insulation cavities perfectly since logs are constantly changing shape and size.
I hear what you are saying on best practices being best practices for a reason, but conventional best practices are formed in conventional builds, which is not at what I am doing. Also, being in the forest, there are more critters and bugs to contend with compared to a more sterile suburban site. A lot of log cabin owners complain that bugs and critters love fluffy insulation and steal it to make nests, or just take up residence there and eat away at your floor joists. The bubble wrap apparently critters want nothing to do with, which is a plus.
I understand as well that industry code and energy efficiency standards largely ignores the effect of radiant heat. It focuses more on the air temperature itself, but ignores that you can be much more comfortable in a cooler air temperature if you have radiant heat is being reflected at your body. This is why incandescent bulbs can actually save energy in a cool climate even though they burn more energy per lumen than LED. They slightly warm your body when you are near them with radiant heat, allowing you to be more comfy in cooler air. But they got banned. But I digress.
But certainly combining the radiant properties of the bubble wrap and making use of it as a vapor barrier/thermal bridge, plus using stuff with r-value like rockwool might be good.
All depending on your client's particular issues with the stuff which I am keen to hear.
Radiant barrier only works if ther is an air gap on at least one side of the barrier.  If the barrier only is reflective on one side the air gap HAS to be on that side.  If it is reflective on both sides the gap can be on either side.  If the gap is on the hot or cold side doesn't matter a whole lot.  But do you research to see which is better.  The gap is recommended to be at least 1 inch.
If there is no gap the heat loss is by conduction rather than radiation so the radiant barrier no longer works, and since it may be a good conductor it may cause more heat loss.
Huh... that... makes a lot of sense. The dude who convinced me he is having good luck stapled it underneath his joists after the floor was in. There is his air gap you are talking about. Makes sense that any radiant reflective qualities would be negated by the higher conductive qualities of the shiny stuff if it's touching a surface you want to keep warm.
I could leave enough space below for rockwool later if I need it.
Don't know if it would serve as an effective vapor barrier if it's stapled to the sides of the joist though. And tape on green wood I don't trust. May need a continuous overlapped and taped layer of polyethylene on top of the joists for good measure for a VB considering plywood subfloors are out of the question at the moment.
Building 20X20 dovetail log cabin off grid.

Thank You Sponsors!