Hemlock Shake?

[Mattjohndeere2]

Maple flats, I'm over just east of Rome, and have very similar land to yours, with a bunch of hemlock. I sawed a little bit, haven't run into any serious shake but like the previous post to mine I did run into half my trees having a couple feet of rot at the butt end. I'm not really sure what the growth rate of hemlock is supposed to be, but a lot of my trees are north of 100 years old and are barely 2 feet in diameter, if that, at the base. Seems like slow growth on this flat wet land of mine, could contribute to the center butt rot, but not sure, I'm no tree expert.
You can see some rot in this pic below

My hemlocks are in Upper Michigan but I've noticed a similar growth pattern with mine, slow growth with tight rings. The logs are about 20-22" dbh and are just around 140 years old. The slow growth makes for nice lumber when the shake stays away. They've been passed over a few times and provide a look at the history of the property. I've counted the rings on a few logs marking the photos with 10 year intervals (it's easier to count the tiny rings by enlarging the digital photo). According to these trees it would seem the last big cut was in the 1940s (likely the hardwood stand surrounding the hemlocks) as the widest rings happened in the 1950s and 60s as the forest filled back in. In the early 1970s this land was subdivided into hundreds of 10 and 20 acre parcels, much of it not seeing another harvest despite the mature woods.
This one was cut and milled in 2019:



This one was cut and milled in 2018, you can also see there the shake appears at the base of the butt log:

That is awesome. I'm going to have to do some analysis like that on the next tree I cut. I know they cleared a lot of land when moving in in the late 1700s here, I'm guessing this place got used for farming till about late 1800s and then it was able to regrow. Really not any big old trees back in my woods.

[Mattjohndeere2]

The pictures roundhouse posted are nearly identical to what I found in trees cut in Alberta. I needed 20 ' 6x12 rafters logs where cut at 25'. I cut 2x12 24' rafters off the outside and tried to cut off any shake. This meant not all my rafters had the heart boxed. Cutting off the remaining 5 feet on the 6x12 allowed me to remove any remaking shake. The shaky slabs I sold bundled as campfire wood to a local campground. They could not get enough. Rafters came out awesome. Despite having to work around the shake hemlock is beautiful. I need to find some more to build my loft floor beams.

 

Those are some beautiful beams. What did you use for the ceiling boards on top of the rafter beams? Bought tongue and groove or did you make them?

[Edvantage]

I picked up red pine logs for free. Milled 500 2x6s. I had them planed. I joined edges and cut grooves on both edges. Used 3/8 plywood for tongues. The rafters are hemlock the column and beams are red pine. 

[Mattjohndeere2]

That's awesome. Looks great! Fiance and I are working on finalizing what we want for our house. Leaning towards a timber frame style, stick built (sawn hemlock) and spray foamed, maybe sips for the roof. Just trying to do a budget and see what we feel like tackling ourselves. If I had an infinite amount of time I'd build the place with only lumber from my property, but that just isn't practical. 

I have a lot of maple, hemlock, and poplar. I'm hoping I can finish some poplar for siding some of the interior, other than that it's just junk wood to me

[John Mc]

this photo showing shake would appear as if woodpeckers caused the shake. I think the bacteria that attacks a hemlock also attracts insects which brings the woodpeckers. This would make it appear the woodpeckers caused the shake.

Woodpeckers would not be bothering the tree if there were not already bugs in it.

[Edvantage]

I probably miss worded what I wrote. People see shake similar to my photo and blame woodpeckers. They are only there for the bugs brought on by the bacteria which was causing the shake. 

[John Mc]

I probably miss worded what I wrote. People see shake similar to my photo and blame woodpeckers. They are only there for the bugs brought on by the bacteria which was causing the shake.

I'd guess it' more likely I just misread it. When I went back and read it again, it's clear to me what you were saying.

[mike_belben]

Ive not sawn very many trees with birdpeck rings but have some on the stump.  Is there no chance they can produce useable lumber?  Would you guys cull them right away?

[mudfarmer]

In the pic posted earlier those look like rings of sap sucker holes, which my limited understanding means they were feeding on the sap, bugs attracted to sap, bast and cambium. Don't think they care at all if there are bugs already in the tree so is it the chicken or the egg, do they attack hemlock with shake already present or does the bacteria get in after the holes are punched?

We have a lot of hemlock with sap sucker rings and in the interest of science I'll go get saw and wife and cut one or a few small ones down and see what there is to see.

Mike like the others said often can buck up the log a bit to get rid of shake or have just turned some 10ft boards into 8ft. The sap sucker holes don't go deep but if the tree heals over and keeps going like pic posted earlier seems like could be a pretty serious defect, or a big money maker  ;D

[mike_belben]

That sap ring plot on page 1 is pretty sweet.  The sudden boom in the 1950s thru 60s really illustrates what release can do for growth rates.  

[Roundhouse]

The pictures roundhouse posted are nearly identical to what I found in trees cut in Alberta.

That sounds right, these trees were just over 10 miles from Alberta as the crow flies, good chance they are on nearly the same cycle of fire, cutting and weather. I love seeing the great results you're getting from hemlock, nice work. I have plenty of building I want to do with it. On the 10 acres where my mill is I was counting the hemlocks I had and didn't want to cut them all for aesthetic reasons. 3 years ago I found a good deal on another 10 acres 3 miles from my mill with more nice mature hemlock on it, then last year 10 acres a half mile from my mill where I'll be making my camp and you guessed it, more hemlocks. I finally feel like I have enough to no longer agonize over getting the maximum out of each tree. Having been passed over multiple times as not desirable they now make some nice old growth lumber.

[thecfarm]

Mine kinda grow in groves. I built a horse run in from hemlock. No shake, no nothing but good logs. Than I went back to the same area about 10 years later and cut some more. Had a lot of shake. Around the knots was black. I knew I was in trouble when I was limbing the trees. I only have a tractor, but did have my land logged 3 times. I told him to leave that area alone and he did. Yes, he cut up to it, but not in it.

[moodnacreek]

I wonder what happens when a nice softwood lot is selective cut, the tall small dia. left to fight the wind. A lot of them blow over. What about the ones that make it? I once bought a load of these tall thin survivors [w. pine] and they all had ring shake. If they hade been hemlock?  I have more than once been told that the wind does not cause shake but it must be one of the causes.

[mudfarmer]

Cut two suppressed hemlocks with moderate to severe sap sucker damage yesterday, cookies are drying out at home to see if we get any ring separation. Lots of old healed damage and not much new but some. Tree #2 data: 36' height, single leader, straight pole, 4.5" DBH. Will need to dry and sand the cookie to get exact age because the rings are tight and my eyes not great, maybe need to use magnifier but based on bad MS Paint skills looks to be maybe ~54 years old?



 

 

Will keep getting and recording data as I thin because why not? :P

[maple flats]

You say shake often extends to the top? On the only shake I've ever found in the past it was just in about 5 or 6- 2x4's and 2x6's. It didn't show up until after I had built my sugarhouse. I have no idea where it came from in the tree(s). Those were sawn by a neighbor with a Wood Mizer, before I bought my Peterson, I didn't saw them. By the time my mill came in I had finished all framing on the sugarhouse, all I cut for it was purlins and the board & batten. Then I cut some dimensional lumber for platforms to hold the head tank and pump platforms. Those have since been replaced with PT lumber.
If and when I get to cut and build my shop extension, it will be my first time cutting muck of my own hemlock. For about 8-10 years I did take my Peterson and cut for others, on their logs. The last 6 years, I've quit that.