Blades suitable for swingmill?

[Satamax]

Hi everybody.

Would thoses stelite tipped blades be suitable for a swinger? Well, i mean, i have a dividing table, a mill drill, access to a lathe. So i can machine. I know they have many teeth, but is it real bad? They're meant for a twin saw, to make boxed heart beams, both of theses are 70cm diameter,  and can cut something like 12 deep without a glitch in their original machine.



I can get the two brand new ones plus 3 spare to resharpen ones for 295 dols aproximately.

Thanks.

Max.

[Ron Wenrich]

How much power do you think you'll need for all those teeth?  Most swing mills have very few teeth in the saws, and I always assumed it was a power related thing.

Something with replaceable teeth would probably be easier to service, and last a lot longer.  My edger saws have replaceable teeth, and I've run millions of bf of lumber through those saws. 

I'm sure a swinger will give you the real answer.   ;)

[Jeff]

Would thoses stelite tipped blades be suitable for a swinger?

I'd say, Nope for the reasons Ron brought up related to power.

[Satamax]

Ok guys.

Well, it gonna be electric, may be even direct drive. I have a 7.5kw. But can easily find 15, even 20 or more. So power shouldn't be too much of a prob. Depending on funds, i might just give it a try.

Thanks guys.

[beenthere]

Just might be related to needing a large gullet to carry large chips out of the cut.
Small sized sawdust could spill along the sides of the blade, bind, and cause heat.

As mentioned, there is a reason. You should search for what it is.

Maybe some trial and error so you are satisfied these blades will or won't work for you.

[Satamax]

Thabks Beenthere.

Anyway i can't find a 70cm blade for my purposes for less than 735 dols. Or a lucas blade for less than 480 dols. Too expensive for prototyping imho.

Plus, how come thoses wouldn't throw the sawdust away, since they're sawmill blades. Don't know how the machine is called, but it's like a multi rip saw, with only two blades, for cuting two sides to a small tree (remember the depth of cut is more than 12inch) previous to feed it to a multiblade either band or alternative saw. Or it can be used for making beams and posts by turning the piece of wood once the two first faces are cut.

Thanks a lot and best regards.

Max.

[Ron Wenrich]

Seems like you're at a crossroads.  You have 2 choices.  You can go with the proven technology of the more expensive blade or you can go with the unproven technology of the cheaper blade.  One of those choices will prove to be cheaper in the long run.

If you go with the cheap blades and they don't work, then you'll be out $295 plus the cost of the proven blade.  If it does work, then you'll be ahead.  But, seems to me that others would have tried it. 

I had one mill owner that was putting in a hydraulic system that run off the power unit.  He found a bearing that saved him money, but it only used a 3/4" shaft.  The pulley used 4 belts.  The only problem was that the shaft kept on breaking.  He stubbornly felt it was a problem with the steel.  The bearing wasn't the problem.

I took that part to a machine shop many times.  Machinist told me it wouldn't work because it was too light.  The mill owner felt he was right.  It cost him thousands of dollars in downtime, and machine upgrades just to save the $35 on a bearing. 

You're now at the same crossroads.  You'll save money on some blades in the short run.  If they work, fine.  If they don't, then you'll be out there wasting time and money trying to get them to work. 

[Satamax]

Thanks a lot Ron, for the reply.

Well, it's nothing like it's my day job, and i need it to keep runing. I work as a chairlift atendant in the winter, and as a roofer/carpenter the rest of the year.  So this is spare time prototyping, and i'm not too bothered to lose a bit of my time. Nor dough. If it works, fine, and if it doesn't tough! :D I'll do something else with the parts.

[eastberkshirecustoms]

Hey Satamax, have you abandoned your bandmill project? I was kind of hoping to see that parallelogram lift come to life!

[shelbycharger400]

somewhere i read you need 1 to 2 hp for each tooth in the cut for circle blades.   so you have 2 blades running, so theirs 4 hp x 20 teeth?    you can tell us the tooth count but   your going to need 100 hp+ to make it work.
the belsaw with a 40 in blade, they recomend minimum of 30 hp range,  people running it say they need 50hp + for ONE BLADE!
Double set blades in the big mills have gobbs of hp ... belt driven by steam

[Satamax]

Hi Shelby.

Well, 39 teeth on a blade, only 1/4 of theses cutting, since there's only 1/2 of the blade in the wood, and half of thoses have gone past the furthest cutting point. So let's say ten HP. I'm not using the two blades at the same time. It is for a swing mill.

Following this site. http://www.sawdesigner.com/powcalc.php

I get 10HP (i have a 7.5KW electric three phase motor)

With a gulley surface of one square inch, which i'm not absolutely sure about, and a feed speed of 6fpm.

[Jeff]

6 feet per minute feed would be about right for 10 horsepower I'd guess.

Look at this attachment from the forest service.

[Ianab]

I suspect the problem you are going to have is that when you slow down the feed each tooth still has to cut through all the wood fibres, and that take almost the same amount of power. But one cuts a chip that 0.1", the other makes dust that's 0.01". Cutting the thinner dust takes almost as much power as the larger chip.

A conventional swingmill blade has 4 to 8 cutters, and 2 or 3 hp per cutter. Only one might actually be in the wood at any one time. That means you have the power feed at a decent rate and throw large chips, similar to a full size circle mill. OK, maybe only  1/10 the speed, but the way the individual cutters are working is very similar.

The 6 fpm may be correct, but that's pretty slow sawing. A high power swing mill might go though a 12 ft long in 15-20sec? Faster on a shallower cut.

Ian

Ian