Speaking of urban logs. A repeat customer called last week and said he had some logs to saw. Well I get there and most of the logs look like they have been dragged and pushed around in the mud and gravel :o :o not to mention a few nails to boot :o :o. I think I'm going to have to leave the dirtiest logs with him. Tried to saw a couple today and even after cleaning them off the best I could, I think the blade dulled faster than if I'd cut a few nails.
What have or would you do in this situation ??? ::) ??? ::) ??? ???
Tony 8)
Tell him/ her to get a pressure washer and clean them up before you can get started.
Ironwood
That's what the debarker is for. I don't worry about dirt. :)
Tom
I charge by the hour, and the rate is the same if i'm sawing, or pealing off bark.
Tom,
With all due respect, not every mill HAS a debarker, I am w/ Footer. Put the ball in their court and things will get straightened out if they know it is coming out of their pocket.
Ironwood
Quote from: Ironwood on June 12, 2008, 12:58:53 AM
Tom,
With all due respect, not every mill HAS a debarker, I am w/ Footer. Put the ball in their court and things will get straightened out if they know it is coming out of their pocket.
Ironwood
Ironwood,
Sorry if what I said sounded disrespectful, I did not intend that. ::) I also charge by the hour for the same reasons. However, having cut with a debarker and without one, I consider a debarker an absolute necessity. This is about enhancing my service to my customers. If they don't have to worry about washing the logs then they are happier.
I also tell my customers that if I hit metal or other debris in their logs and wreck a blade I will charge them $20 for the blade, but if the blade is not destroyed and I can resharpen it I don't charge this fee. I can't charge someone $20 for a blade that cost me $25 that has already cut 2500 bft and will likely cut another 2500 after I sharpen it. I know of another mill owner (has several WM mills) who charges $50 for that $25 blade when he hits metal. I don't know how he can sleep at night.
Tom
Besides blade replacement costs, the charge for damaged blades is to give the customer an incentive to have clean logs free of nails.
I bought a $500 cedar chest off of a good customer to donate to our woodland association. Never questioned his price. A few months ago he calls for some peeled posts. Says I am too high. Havnt' heard from him since. We are busier than ever so prices for most people are not an issue. Customers are fickle. Treat them all with fairness, but there are no guarantees.
My point is that you should charge enough to make a good living now and so that you have money to invest in your pension for the future. Charging for damaged blades whether out of the box or on the last pass should be the same. Making money for your hard work should not make you feel guilty.
That was very well put by Cedarman. My EXACT thoughts ;D ;D ;D ;D
Milling is hard work, especially after my heart attack. If a guy wants to pay $20.00 a blade to quarter saw a log that WE KNOW has metal in it, who am I to argue with him and his $100.00 :D :D :D :D
I was just figgerin' my last two saw jobs. Lots of crotches and crooked logs, gas is high, I broke some linkage, had to do a lot of chain sawin' and it was hot and humid. At the last job the wind changed and blew directly in my face >:( >:( >:(
Then to find out that I made about 6 Bucks an hour really made me ask myself if it was really worth it ??? ??? ???
Then I think I should just charge more, but most people complain about the price now >:( >:( >:(
i will wash a log before i saw it, if it is muddy. the mud dulls me pretty quick but it is the small gravel that deals me the most misery.
most customers are very cordial and they pay me more than i ask of them because they say i am too cheep.
and i do tend to grade their lumber that i saw alittle on the light side, like i will call a 1x6 a 1x4 if it has too much of a flaw.i know its not my fault but i do give folks a break from time to time.
but with those hardnose customers i sell them what they bring me to cut,good bad or indifferent. alot of times its their attitude that costs them the most.
Quote"......but most people complain about the price now."
Custome Sawing is a Labour of Love, eh?
I'm practicing my Canadian? ;D
Quote from: Tom on June 12, 2008, 05:32:40 PM
Quote"......but most people complain about the price now."
Custome Sawing is a Labour of Love, eh?
I'm practicing my Canadian? ;D
That must be it :D :D :D
Quote from: Cedarman on June 12, 2008, 08:32:04 AM
Besides blade replacement costs, the charge for damaged blades is to give the customer an incentive to have clean logs free of nails.
I bought a $500 cedar chest off of a good customer to donate to our woodland association. Never questioned his price. A few months ago he calls for some peeled posts. Says I am too high. Havnt' heard from him since. We are busier than ever so prices for most people are not an issue. Customers are fickle. Treat them all with fairness, but there are no guarantees.
My point is that you should charge enough to make a good living now and so that you have money to invest in your pension for the future. Charging for damaged blades whether out of the box or on the last pass should be the same. Making money for your hard work should not make you feel guilty.
This is one of the best posts on this subject that I have read yet. Well said !!! I am (obviously) in complete agreement. I have yet to see a discount isle at the grocery store for sawyers who didn't charge enough....
cheers
Quote from: Cedarman on June 12, 2008, 08:32:04 AM
Charging for damaged blades whether out of the box or on the last pass should be the same. Making money for your hard work should not make you feel guilty.
Nope, but charging $20 for minor nail damage on a blade that will only take a couple of extra passes on the grinder to fix should.
I understand the fairness of not charging full boat for blade that is worn out. I make some seat-of-the-pants decisions along those lines myself. It's good for business and builds good will. It also lets you sleep at night. :)
A brand new blade that hits a nail might, with a little cleaning up, may finish the log or even several. Sometimes the set isn't even disrupted very much. I may not charge full boat for that. If you send a band away to get it sharpened and set, it will cost you $6 to $9. So charging that much is fair.
If a band has been damaged before and gets destroyed on a nail. I may charge $5 or $10 for it.
IF a band has normal wear and has been through several sharpenings, I may charge $10 for it, if I believe it has/had some life left.
If it is a new blade, or one with only a couple of sharpenings and it gets hurt bad, I charge $20.
How I justify it to the customer is telling them, up front, that I charge up to $20 for damaged blades. I will itemize each one on their bill. I may not say why it is less, but I will put a dollar figure on each damaged blade.
Don't be afraid to charge for the blade. It's not only the blade that they are paying for, it's the time lost. It takes time to change blades and to get started sawing again. Even if you lose only 5 minutes and are cutting 200 feet an hour, that is 16 feet times your footage charge. That is over $3 @ .20 a foot, just in time alone. I think my arithmetic is right.
So, while I agree with your philosophy, don't sell yourself short. :)
Quote from: Tom on June 12, 2008, 07:28:45 PM
Don't be afraid to charge for the blade. It's not only the blade that they are paying for, it's the time lost. It takes time to change blades and to get started sawing again. Even if you lose only 5 minutes and are cutting 200 feet an hour, that is 16 feet times your footage charge. That is over $3 @ .20 a foot, just in time alone. I think my arithmetic is right.
So, while I agree with your philosophy, don't sell yourself short. :)
The time isn't a factor for me because I charge by the hour. If throughout the course of a day I spend 1 hour changing blades (and digging metal out of a log), I still get paid the same as if I was sawing for that hour. This is a good example of why I charge by the hour and not by the board foot.
Tom