Prices to dry wood in kiln

[woodweasel]

 I know this is a very broad area but,,,,,  would like to get some prices for what you guys charge to dry lumber in kilns for customers. I been reading all sorts of information ( introduction to dehumidification lumber drying). Gonna get me KD150 soon. Im in Central Texas, but would be interested in prices per board ft. from all areas!   ??? :P  Woodweasel

[scsmith42]

It depends upon the drying time, which in turn depends upon the species, thickness and initial moisture content going into the kiln.

Typically for 5/4 oak we charge .75 bd ft.  4/4 pine is a lot less.

Lumber that has been air dried and only needs a 2 - 3 day sterilization / finish off run is usually around .16 bd ft.

Gene Wengert once recommended that we charge $25.00 per day per 1K bd ft.  I've found it a good number to use, but we frequently add an hourly handling charge for stacking and stickering (and sometimes loading the kiln if the customer's lumber is a variety of thickness and lengths.)

[xlogger]

So far I've only had one outside load in my kiln. I charger him $50 the first day and $20 each day after that. He had to load his lumber and use my stickers on one of my pallets and I put the wood in the kiln with my forklift. I did no labor other than baffling (not sure on spelling there) the load.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Indeed, I do think $25 per day per MBF is a good starting point.  You can add $20 per MBF for handling.  This means that air drying is essential for most hardwoods, and you do not charge for this.

More important than the fee is documenting the wood quality when you receive the wood, especially surface and end checking, using the tests on p. 101 of DRYING HARDWOOD LUMBER and other visual observations that you record. Any defects at the end of drying are often thought (incorrectly) to be kiln drying defects, so the customer wants huge compensation.

[Den Socling]

When documenting checks and warp, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[woodweasel]

Thanks guys!!!

[5quarter]

When documenting checks and warp, a picture is worth a thousand words.

X2

[Den Socling]

I run vac kilns. I know what they can make drying baseball bats. Big bucks! I use that dollar per day to determine what kiln time is worth. Custom drying, which I am always turning down, pays that amount per day. Full charge or not.

[dustintheblood]

Love my ICS dehumidification kiln - a lot.  But I miss using it since hydro rates have increased about 200% over the past 10 years (no exaggeration).  I'm further ahead money wise just leaving it sit.  It's heated from the outdoor wood boiler, and works like a charm, but the cost for energy for the fans just doesn't make it pay.

Sometime in the future I may recommission it for real high end jobs with my own wood, but as far as custom drying, or even drying wood for sale, it's simply not economic sense.

New government please....

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

The key to successful and profitable drying is to dry any species and thickness that will increase its value by at least $200 per MBF between air dried and kiln dried prices.  Even at your increased hydro rates, which are similar to US rates, kiln drying air-dried will use about 300 kWh, or under $60 electricity (under $30 in some cases) in an insulated building with a good compressor like NYLE.  This means you still have $150 per MBF for profit and operating expenses per MBF.

[Peter Drouin]

.15 a BF for profit to dry lumber?

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Profit is 15 cents, Minimum, with the conditions mentioned.  With FAS 4/4 red oak, for example, it can be much more,,,over 20 cents.  But remember that you can dry all day but you do not make money until you sell the wood.

[YellowHammer]

Profit is 15 cents, Minimum, with the conditions mentioned.  With FAS 4/4 red oak, for example, it can be much more,,,over 20 cents.  But remember that you can dry all day but you do not make money until you sell the wood.

As Gene says, profit is dependent upon sales, but also upon availability.  There are a lot of sawmills in this area so everybody has green wood, but few operate kilns for very long because of the technical challenges and financial risk of killing a load of somebody else's wood.  After butchering up a few $5,000 or more loads of customer wood, most folks give up kiln contract drying pretty quick.  I've heard horror stories from customers who got burned badly by other not so good kiln operators in the area.  One recently where a customers 7,000 Bdft order of hard to come by sassafras got honeycombed by a kiln operator a couple hours away.  Ugly....

Also, since we sell retail kiln dried wood, it doesn't make financial sense for us to contract dry for customers as more than once in the past I've seen wood that I dried for a customer sold on the internet, advertised at just under my retail price, low balling me, in direct competition, in a situation I created because I dried their wood! >:(. So we have adopted a strict policy of not drying anybody's wood (except close friends who won't screw with my business.)



So there are many factors involved when pricing kiln drying for other people....

[WV Sawmiller]

YH,

   Sounds to me like if you had prior customers get you to dry their lumber then undercut your lumber prices when they sold it then you did not charge enough for your KD services. If you had charged enough more they could not afford to beat your selling prices. :D

[YellowHammer]

YH,

   Sounds to me like if you had prior customers get you to dry their lumber then undercut your lumber prices when they sold it then you did not charge enough for your KD services. If you had charged enough more they could not afford to beat your selling prices. :D

Yes, my price for contract drying lumber is just shy of astonomical now.. ;D
Live and learn.

[Peter Drouin]

The kiln thing is good. But what I see is it's not enough.
What YH and WDH dose is where it's at, cut, dry,plane, and straight line rip.
The lumber is ready to use. Now A man can make $2.00 + a BF over what he has into it.
:christmas:

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

Many "custom" kiln dryers do not charge enough for their services, as they do not have a good handle on their costs and risks.  Even more do not have a good idea of the proper, profitable drying techniques for various species and thicknesses.  Many do not know the precise quality that a customer expects.    The incoming lumber needs to be carefully inspected for quality, both before and after air drying and then again after kiln drying.  In short, custom drying is really tough...not every load, but many.  So, $.25 for stacking, handling and unstacking, extra cost for storage over three days, clear specifications on MC with appropriate increases for tight specs, $.25 per day in the kiln, etc.  who pays of there is a fire, wind storm, flood, theft, etc. of lumber when under your control?  Every customer delivers perfect wood, so you need to confirm this and also not be responsible for defects that are natural, like side bend. Who pays when drying takes longer than expected, due to rainy weather, kiln breakdown, etc.?  If they do not pick the lumber up right away, how much are your storage costs and how long before you can legally seize it?  Make sure you get paid before the lumber leaves your premises.  You do not want to be a non-profit organization.

[scsmith42]

Many "custom" kiln dryers do not charge enough for their services, as they do not have a good handle on their costs and risks.  Even more do not have a good idea of the proper, profitable drying techniques for various species and thicknesses.  Many do not know the precise quality that a customer expects.    The incoming lumber needs to be carefully inspected for quality, both before and after air drying and then again after kiln drying.  In short, custom drying is really tough...not every load, but many.  So, $.25 for stacking, handling and unstacking, extra cost for storage over three days, clear specifications on MC with appropriate increases for tight specs, $.25 per day in the kiln, etc.  who pays of there is a fire, wind storm, flood, theft, etc. of lumber when under your control?  Every customer delivers perfect wood, so you need to confirm this and also not be responsible for defects that are natural, like side bend. Who pays when drying takes longer than expected, due to rainy weather, kiln breakdown, etc.?  If they do not pick the lumber up right away, how much are your storage costs and how long before you can legally seize it?  Make sure you get paid before the lumber leaves your premises.  You do not want to be a non-profit organization.

GREAT post Gene, and I concur.

We do a lot of custom drying for others; typically it's a sterilization run on air dried or reclaimed lumber; sometimes it's drying from green.

This year we built three additional solar kilns and are using them extensively to dry customer owned lumber.  Next year I'm planning to put a second Nyle L200 into service which will bring us up to 7,400 bd ft of solar capacity (4/4 oak) and 8K bd ft of Nyle capacity.  A good portion of this is custom drying for others.

To be profitable though, you have to factor in handling costs.  Stacking and stickering lumber is not cheap, and if we use our kiln sticks we have to unstack the lumber before the customer leaves, otherwise it costs too much in labor and lost production to make replacement stickers.

Usually we will get a deposit up front.  There has been times that I sat on a customer's lumber for months (I still have some 16/4 BW that we sterilized 8 month ago awaiting pickup).

[woodweasel]

 *DanG, you fellows are scaring me. I got the kd 150 coming next month. Planning to do some personal and custom drying :P :P

[Den Socling]

Have potential customers sign a liability waver. If they refuse, you refuse. I have one written by a fancy lawyer. If you want a copy, email me at dsocling@vacdry.com.