new member

hiya · February 16, 2003, 12:38:34 PM

Just joined, Been looking for some time. I'm buoilding my own band mill. had it going last summer then blew the motor(18 hp lawn mower) Thought big was better put on a 3 cyc. 48 hp car motor. Now all kinds of trouble with belts. As soon as the weather gets nice I will get a clutch &trans for it.Was thinking hyd. but the cost is more than I can handle now. I can get my logs free. so that helps.

dan-l-b · February 16, 2003, 01:14:33 PM

Welcome HiYa, Lots of guys building thier own mills. New thread right below yours by Dave_Fullmer, He is building his own, and check out Fla_deadheaders threads. He built a really nice mill. Great stuff and great guys here on the forum. Have fun. Dan

Fla._Deadheader · February 16, 2003, 01:38:05 PM

Hiya, Hiya. Got pics ?? Maybe you could explain what kind of engine to belt hookup you have and someone here may come up with some advice. Welcome aboard

hiya · February 16, 2003, 04:13:02 PM

I don't have picsyet. I was using v-belts, but at an idle the motor has too much stuff it would wear the belts in a short time.I'm going to use a cluch and trans then use chain drive to the shaft. I'm using car axels and wheels.Before with the 18hp I used motorcycle wheels with a v-belt pulley bolted to one.But the alum wheels didn't take the power. so I rebuilt the head.I had cut enough lumber to build a 12x12 building to bucher pastured poultry (we raise about 400 to sell and use). I have learned alot from this board the last while.Almost like going to school.

woodbeard · February 16, 2003, 04:25:42 PM

Exactly what did you learn about poultry on this forum, except that it can be bartered for sawmilling services? :D
Your homebrewed bandmill sounds like an interesting adventure, I hope you keep us updated and find a way to post some pics.
Good luck,
George

EZ · February 16, 2003, 04:30:05 PM

Hiya,
Welcome to the funny farm. Just kidding, these guys are great.
EZ

Fla._Deadheader · February 16, 2003, 05:05:47 PM

Hiya, I am using a 4 cyl. Porsche engine with 1 drive belt. It works fine and I can pull down the revs if I try to push the saw. What brand blade are you using. I tried Woodmizer, but, Timberwolf works MUCH better for me, with much less blade tension.

Frank_Pender · February 16, 2003, 08:39:09 PM

Welcome a board, Hiya. It is not a funny farm but a tree farm. Jeff grows trees for us based on how much we share or fertilize around here. Your progress on your mill sounds challenging. There is a deep pile of experience and thought here, so share and we can give it back as well. 8)

dail_h · February 16, 2003, 09:32:57 PM

Welcome HIYA,lota info,lotsa fun,lotsa ,,,,,,,,,,wellanyway glad to have ya here.You never knowwhat a guy is interested in,am also looking at pastured poultry to help get me out of GP. Good luck with mill.

ARKANSAWYER · February 17, 2003, 05:09:27 AM

HIYA
Welcome and we like photos and fried chicken. Southern fried that is.
ARKANSAWYER

Dave_Fullmer · February 17, 2003, 07:56:10 PM

Welcome Hya,
Just don't ask questions about smileys and such or these guys get all side tracked from giving us new guys info on how to build our mills. Just kidding guys. It was all my fault.

Harold,
what are you using for your clutch on your 40 HP Porche? I went back to page 12 or 14 or so and looked at all your posts but that didn't seem to come up. Is this the pancake engine that was in the Porche car? I am tossed between buying a centrifigal clutch or building a tilt engine type like the WM. The engine I bought is a Linamar built by Onan. 18 HP. It has a 1 18th in drive shaft and the cheapest clutch I have found so far is $250 What kind of advice would you give me based on your experience?

Dave

Fla._Deadheader · February 17, 2003, 08:44:57 PM

Hi Dave. I just got a short bellhousing and mounted a flange bearing on it and used the original trans shaft. I welded it up and turned it on my lathe, so the bearing would stay tight on the shaft. Then I put a pillow block bearing at the end of the shaft, to support the shaft. The pulley is in between. I just used the original clutch.
I think there are centrifugal clutches that would work on the 1 1/8th shaft?? There would be no need for a belt tightener with a centrifugal. I don't slow my engine when giging back, so, don't bother with the clutch until I want to start up or shut down.

I couldn't quite get the belt to clear the housing where it goes down to the wheel drive pulley, so, I made a spring loaded belt tightener lever with a large ball bearing that runs against the belt and holds it away from the housing. You might rig that up instead of lifting the engine.??

Dave_Fullmer · February 19, 2003, 04:18:26 AM

Yeah Harold, I can get a centrifigal clutch. Linn Lumber hasn't given me a firm price yet but about $250. I was trying to find ways to trim cost. Already, I've exceeded the cost that I saw you posted somewhere. However, I still think I can get mine built for about $3000. This is with a 4 ft wide deck, 50 inches center to center between the saw wheels, a hydraulic log dog system, log loader and toe boards. If I can just learn how to weld square quick enough.

Some of the posts I have read makes me think that the belt (or belts) might not wear if I use an idler tightener for the clutch. I know WM uses a flat belt belt about 1 in wide for their system. Haven't looked up any pulleys like that yet. I would think that belt would wear better that V belts. What do you think?

Surplus Center had a Centrifigal clutch that bolted to a flange on industrial engines. My engine has the bolt up feature. But the Surplus Center discription said "2/3 V belt" Any one know what that means?

Thanks,
Dave

Minnesota_boy · February 19, 2003, 05:01:06 AM

Dave,
The trick to reducing wear on a v-belt when it is not engaged is to provide a couple of support pins just outside the drive pulley. If these aren't there to keep the belt floating on the pulley, it tends to grab a bit and wear. My belt on the Woomizer (double v-belt, not flat) lasted over 500,000 bd-ft and still has useable wear in it.

The centrifugal clutch you are looking at has 3 V's and can be used with either a double or triple v-belt.

Woodmizer has an electric clutch available. You could call them and get a price on that too, for comparison. I think it will be more than you will want to spend, but you won't know without asking.

Fla._Deadheader · February 19, 2003, 05:23:27 AM

Dave. I'll get some close-ups of the clutch linkage and bearing idler. I'm changing the bearing idler today, to a flanged car alternator belt tightener type. The belt runs on either half, but, won't stay centered. The bearing is not quite as wide as the belt.
  I use a Kevlar belt from Grainger. It won't tear up as quick as a regular belt, and is supposed to transfer 20% more power than a regular belt. Seems to do it. It pulls the 4 cyl. down.
  What width belt ya usin?? I'm usin 5L's or "B" section or 5/8ths inch. Can't use the cheap 4L's. They won't take the strain.
1 trick to square welds is, tack a square piece on the inside corner or on top of a joint, THEN, spot weld the piece in place and then remove the square piece. If you try to weld one side completely first, the heat will "draw" the piece toward the bead side. Tack on opposite sides when possible , just like relieving tension in a cant, by flippin the cant 180 degres after each cut. Clamping doesn't always work. Ya gotta keep the square and straight edge REAL handy.
  Sounds like you got the cost down real reasonable. I had a bunch of stuff laying around that I used. Being a "packrat" has it's advantages !!

Fla._Deadheader · February 19, 2003, 04:03:53 PM

Dave, here's yer pics. The first is the belt tightener bearing with spring tension.

This one is the original clutch with the linkage I made for it. It comes down to the handle being right near the control panel.

hiya · February 19, 2003, 04:25:16 PM

Harold, I Got my blades from cooks They seem to work ok. But than I never used any other. The reason I was wearihg belts out so fast I was using a tightner on one as a clutch. I had trouble with long belts coming off when I let up on the tightner.So I put a jack shaft on and used 2 shorter belts.As soon as some of this snow melts (24") I will go get a clutch & trans. I like your idea of just using the shaft not the whole trans. Would make less weight
.Richard

Fla._Deadheader · February 19, 2003, 04:31:02 PM

All I did was put a plate on the back of the bell housing, for support, and bolt on a flange bearing to keep the shaft from whipping in the clutch spline. The Pillow block bearing carries most of the strain.

Dave_Fullmer · February 19, 2003, 08:32:21 PM

Minnesotal,
Thanks for the info. I'll have to look into that Surplus Center clutch. They priced it at $79 and it was listed good up to 20 HP engine. Mine is only 18 HP so that should work. I thought maybe it might have been like you say but I didn't know. Guess I should call them and find out what size width belt it will take. Then I'll need to find the 14 or 15 inch pulley for the drive wheel. Any good reason I should consider using more than one belt to drive the saw?

Harold, you are using only one belt. And since you say it is pulling the engine down, I guess it isn't slipping any. What do you say about using more than one belt?

As you can see, I haven't decided what width belt to use yet. I am still looking at the options.

I do have some steel laying around. The factory I worked at 4 years ago had an employee sealed bid sale on any thing that was being stored out side. They were trying to clean up the yard. AI bid on a hyd bearing press and a couple of other things and then I noticed the piles of steel that was taken down from various jobs that had been done. Included was a couple of 16 in I beams about 12 feet long, several 10 foot 6 in I beams, several paint hanger stand 8 ft long made out of 6
X 2 channel iron and a bunch of angle and 4 inch channell. I bid $25 and I don't thing any of the other maintenance guys even thought about it. At any rate I got it and had to bring my 20 foot tri-axle to the plant twice to get it all home. Some of this is going into my mill but I don't have much else to use except a trailer house axle to use to make it mobile.

I have a new 3 1/2 HP horz engine from the lawn mower factory that I retired from last year but I don't think it's big enough to power the hydraulics.

Are you using DC from your Porche to power your hydraulics?

Dave

PS Thanks for the pics

Fla._Deadheader · February 20, 2003, 04:41:03 AM

Hi Dave. I messed up using 13 inch trailer wheels for the blade. I am thinking about making a few sawheads, for sale, and gauging them to use 12 inch wheels and tires. That would allow room for a 2 sheave drive pulley. I only get to use 1 and 2 would be MUCH better.
I am using a starter motor for the hydraulic drive motor. I used too large of hydraulic hoses and the motor wants to stall. I will install a reducer plate in the hose connection and that would take care of the problem. Trick with hydraulics is, slow oil feed into the cylinder equals MORE power at a slower rate of movement.
The 3.5 HP gas should handle the hydraulics just fine. Just gear it so you get the slower steady movement. I didn't want to listen to another engine running, or, not have it start when I needed it !! :