For the large sawmill user, according to your experience, what is the best blade on the market? (Type and model)
Theo
This is a strange request since your profile indicates that you are a KASCO dealer ??? Are you asking for the profile and blade specifications or the brand name?
I know,,, Sorry no body is perfect...
I like the opinion of users, more than that of a seller ... :-X
OK, I use Wood-Mizer Resharp so obviously I use their blades in 4°, 7° Turbo, and I still have some 10°'s.
All I used so far is Kasco and junkyard blades so I guess I can't comment.
The Kasco that I have used seem to work good.
I used Lexon and Kasco blades. I don't have but two years sawing, but for my mill, the Kasco blades have been better. Using 7 degree, but would love to try a couple 4 degree Kasco blades. I just don't want to order 15 blades and find that I don't like them.
Dodge. :D
Opteco 990 series ATB: Like a hot knife through butter
It was an open question :D
Michonne from The Walking Dead definitely had the most durable blade. That sucker never got dull.
Kasco are good but I can't buy 15 at once so I buy some other bands
In my busy season milling I will buy 3 a week to stock up
Quote from: Bruno of NH on April 11, 2017, 05:23:04 PM
Kasco are good but I can't buy 15 at once so I buy some other bands
In my busy season milling I will buy 3 a week to stock up
Is the shipping free or something? Seems to me like if you buy 15blades and pay for shipping once, you'll save more $ in the long run than paying for shipping 5x on the same amount of blades.
The Wood-Mizer 10° Double Hard is a good all-round blade!
I use them exclusively!
Quote from: longtime lurker on April 11, 2017, 03:43:22 PM
Opteco 990 series ATB: Like a hot knife through butter
It was an open question :D
Times 2, Opteco for the Lucas
D
Woodmizer 10s for the past 6 years and worked very well. May try some 4 or 7 to see how they work.
Woodmizer had a winter special going I ordered. Assortment of 3-4 different blades totalling 10. Well of course I've went threw several 100 blades but the guy I got my mill from hooked me up with this ripper blade dealer. Long story short I've never even known my blade length. Didn't need to dealer always new what I had. So I guessed I was standard length.. well my tk standard and woodmizer ain't the same. I'm to embarassed to return them so I now a guy near here runnin a lt40. He is going to get an early christmas. There 158 mine are 150in I beleive. O well back to ripper I guess..
The ripper in7• is a good band
I have used woodmizer doublehards for years and they are good bands. I have been using kasco 7's lately that i get from form member ,cutting edge . They are similar but i like the price.
Quote from: dgdrls on April 11, 2017, 09:00:08 PM
Quote from: longtime lurker on April 11, 2017, 03:43:22 PM
Opteco 990 series ATB: Like a hot knife through butter
It was an open question :D
Times 2, Opteco for the Lucas
D
They also make a bit bigger then saws for a Lucas, out to about 75" I believe.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/32746/IMG_2784.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1492000682)
I have used a couple of sample Kasco with good results but I hate sharpening so now use WM blades and resharp.
Have also used Cooks and Suffolk all worked OK.
Since your website says that "All orders should be placed online" and you don't carry my blade length on your website, I purchase my blades from other FF site sponsors Menominee Saw (Simonds) or Cooks. You might want to add a custom length setting to you site, you might get more business. I have read good things about your blades, but I guess I will never know.
Geoff
I have been using WM double hard 7 deg turbo blades and Kasco 7 deg blades. In the next few weeks I will hopefully be using Kasco blades exclusively. The over all quality control of WM blades in the last 2 yrs has been extremely poor. It does not seem to be improving. Years ago WM blades were second to none. This can no longer be stated. The quality control of Kasco blades is very consistent.
Im a fan of the turbo tall tooth Woodmizer blades. Specifically the 13 degree and the 7 degree blades. You need a mill with hormones to run these but if you got the ponies, these are the blades IMO.
Have not tried Kasco. I've used most of the others and always go back to WM. Got any samples?
Perhaps I lack sophistication but I have a hard time telling the difference between the half dozen brands I've tried. They have all given me good service. In A lineup I would choose Suffolk Timberwolf. Most of them likely get their band stock from the same steel mill or at least the same specs. Its all in how well they are set and ground, of course after the first sharpening the ball is in my court. Frank C.
I have only used WM and of them I prefer the 4d. I tried a Kasco sample blade once but hit a nail in the first pass, so I can not give an opinion on that brand.
WM and their resharp. I have tried 4,7, 10 and turbo 7 blades. I use the 10s in poplar but 4s in most everything else even pine and spruce to prevent wave at the knots. As I phase out my 7s I am replacing with 4s and may eventually just settle on 4s for everything. I'm not trying to break any speed records which seems to be the main reason for the blades with more angle.
I like WM auto refill and auto replace to keep the same number of blades in my pool and replacements come at the discount/quantity purchase price.
I've have been really happy using Cook's Super Sharp DuraTooth Blades 8 degree.. they stay sharp and can take being pushed.. extra tension.. no problem. I like them even more because I have a new Cat's Claw sharpener and setter.. gloves are not optional.. man are they sharp.
You'll like that Cat Claw sharpener, Ken!
I usually use the Wood-Mizer 10° bands, but once in a while I'll resharpen one or two of them to 8° when I get into Spruce or certain of the hardwoods!
Making that adjustment on the Cat Claw sharpener only takes a couple of minutes!
I keep one blue rock profiled to 10°, and one profiled to 8°, and marked accordingly!
Thanks Chuck! I had struggled w/ the shipping/sharpening cost vs buying a new blade. I'd always buy a box of 20.. try to get the free shipping deals.. I had small fortune of once used blades so that was my Christmas/Bday present to myself. Once I thought I knew what I was doing.. just sharpened 3 blades.. and on the 4th I forgot to tighten the blade down. That sharpener will grind a tooth down to a nub as fast as it would sharpen it.. we live and learn. ;D
Ken, there is a learning curve sharpening and setting bands. Every time you sharpen a band its putting money back in your pocket. You will find you won't run bands as long between sharpening's. Frank C.
Quote from: bandmiller2 on April 17, 2017, 08:12:31 AMYou will find you won't run bands as long between sharpening's. Frank C.
So are you saying that if someone uses Resharp that they will run bands longer? Duller? Certainly
not so for me because I change the band at the least sign of dullness. Resharpening is a very small expense of sawing and the cost is recouped in the sawing fees just like fuel and traveling.
I took it to mean one may pull it sooner as to keep the band in better sharpening condition? Not because bad performance .
Is there a difference between "better sharpening condition" and "bad performance"?
I realize that we are splitting hairs (old saying), because a blade is never sharper than when it is first installed. Any blade that is not sharp is in the beginning stages of dull and the sawyer determines when not sharp is dull.
Blades are similar to us: The moment that we begin to live, that moment also we begin to die.
My question/comment to bandmiller2 was directed toward economics since he replied to kensfarm's reply regarding the economics of resharpening.
I can see it from both perspectives...kinda. I'm not sure which direction is more economical, and I think it depends on the individual's situation.
If I sawed as much as MM does, then the LAST THING I would want to do is spend more time sharpening/setting bandsaw blades. UGH. JMO.
But I can see where sharpening your own blades can be beneficial in other situations. I run a low HP manual mill and do not have much experience with any other sawmill other than my 13hp mill, so I can only comment based on what I know. My little sawmill obviously doesn't have a debarker, and I've often wondered how much that would extend the life of my blade before becoming dull. A sharp blade will literally pull itself through the log for a while, then you find yourself slightly urging the carriage down the track, then there comes a time when although the blade is still cutting straight, you notice that you are pushing the blade through. That's when I know it is time to change blades. Since I've finally got my blade guides properly adjusted and everything aligned properly, I believe I could keep on sawing straight until the blade broke. I don't know how far I could actually push the blade before it failed. These are just my thoughts--with a hydraulic mill, you aren't pushing the carriage down the track, so you don't know that more force is required to push the blade through the log as the blade begins to "dull". Obviously MM is correct about the blade gradually becoming dull--never as sharp as when you first put it on the mill. I've often wondered how long I could push the blade on my mill before it is actually being pushed too far...I mean, the darn thing is usually still cutting straight when I pull it, but it's just not as "eager" go pull itself along. It's something that gradually happens, and because of this, I don't realize the difference until I slap a fresh blade on. Does this make sense to you guys?
The sharpener costs a lot of money, so I don't know which way is the most economical. It takes time to sharpen/set them.
Quote from: bandmiller2 on April 17, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
Ken, there is a learning curve sharpening and setting bands. Every time you sharpen a band its putting money back in your pocket. You will find you won't run bands as long between sharpening's. Frank C.
To add a little to what Frank is saying, here goes!
When you have your own sharpening equipment, you are not quite so pressed into getting all you can out of one sharpening, so therefore you pull the blade as soon as you see that it's slowing down in the cut!
If you send your blades out to be resharpened, you would seem to have the tendency to get all you can out of it before pulling it!
If the blade is pulled as soon as it shows signs of getting dull, it might only take a light pass on the sharpener and it may be as good as new!
Hope this clarifies things a little!
One of my best customers used to have a mill that sawed for him that used resharp, he said that operator would leave the blade on the mill for 700bf no matter how it was sawing. I had to resaw quite a bit of his lumber if it was thicker, my customer said he had to throw some away as it wouldn't plane out to 3/4". Steve
Quote from: Deese on April 17, 2017, 11:35:50 AM
A sharp blade will literally pull itself through the log for a while, then you find yourself slightly urging the carriage down the track, then there comes a time when although the blade is still cutting straight, you notice that you are pushing the blade through. That's when I know it is time to change blades. Since I've finally got my blade guides properly adjusted and everything aligned properly, I believe I could keep on sawing straight until the blade broke. I don't know how far I could actually push the blade before it failed. These are just my thoughts--with a hydraulic mill, you aren't pushing the carriage down the track, so you don't know that more force is required to push the blade through the log as the blade begins to "dull".
Actually not totally true. I tend to lean on the control console a little and slightly push as the mill saws along even though it has power feed. I can tell when the blade is dulling. You also learn how much to turn the speed control and you notice that you have to turn it more as the blade get's duller. Kinda like manual brakes and power brakes. You develop a feel for either one.
Quote from: Chuck White on April 17, 2017, 11:39:53 AM
When you have your own sharpening equipment, you are not quite so pressed into getting all you can out of one sharpening, so therefore you pull the blade as soon as you see that it's slowing down in the cut!
If you send your blades out to be resharpened, you would seem to have the tendency to get all you can out of it before pulling it!
Absolutely not true, (at least in my case) but I can not speak for others. Blade resharpening cost should never be a factor regarding changing blades. If the blade is showing signs of dullness, either visually or lumber quality, then the blade needs changing.
As Steve pointed out, anyone that is set on getting maximum (and beyond) from each blade is sawing less than quality lumber. He needs more than a blade change. He needs a mentality change or he is out of business.
Without question (from me anyway) the economics heavily favor doing your own sharpening/setting. Also, being able to fine tune the set for different species and sawing conditions weighs heavily toward self sharpening.
My personal business decision regarding resharpening is based on the fact that I consider and always have considered my business as part time and when I am not sawing, I am not resharpening, I am off.
LeeB, yes sir that makes sense. I was just thinking out loud, and I should have rephrased that statement in the form of a question since I have no experience with power feed. Assumptions can often times get us in a mess! ::) :D
Actually we each have our niche and sawing market. I tend to answer questions and make statements that are true for me and may not fit some other sawyers experience with the same situation.
This is the beauty of the Forestry Forum. Glean what fits your situation, discard the chafe, and tuck the remainder away for future reference.
I FINALLY finished sawing the last of a man's pine logs Saturday evening. You could tell they were drug out of the woods. All the bark was compacted with sand. I spent just as much time hacking the bark off with a hatchet as I did sawing. It was purely awful. Even though I removed the bark and swept them "clean", there was obviously still sand because blade life was not what it should have been. Man, that was a tough lesson that will stick with me! We had already agreed on price and I didn't inquire about the condition of his logs beforehand. I just said, "Sure! Bring'em On Over!". This was from the same whack of logs that I was whining about a few weeks ago...about how small they were. But I stuck with it until the end. I've chalked this up to just being one of those things that you must learn through experience. I won't do that again! :D I should have ordered one of those Wood Wizard debarker thingamajigs :o
It just occurred to me that my last post was not directly related to this thread's topic. My apologies headscratch smiley_goofy_face
Quote from: Deese on April 17, 2017, 01:34:59 PM
I FINALLY finished sawing the last of a man's pine logs Saturday evening. You could tell they were drug out of the woods. All the bark was compacted with sand. I spent just as much time hacking the bark off with a hatchet as I did sawing. It was purely awful. Even though I removed the bark and swept them "clean", there was obviously still sand because blade life was not what it should have been. Man, that was a tough lesson that will stick with me! We had already agreed on price and I didn't inquire about the condition of his logs beforehand. I just said, "Sure! Bring'em On Over!". This was from the same whack of logs that I was whining about a few weeks ago...about how small they were. But I stuck with it until the end. I've chalked this up to just being one of those things that you must learn through experience. I won't do that again! :D I should have ordered one of those Wood Wizard debarker thingamajigs :o
Not sure if it'd be quicker, but maybe next time you could use a dedicated blade to take the slabs off and maybe octagon it so you get all the bark off, then put on a sharp blade to saw the cant. Not sure if that would be worthwhile or not, I like to experiment constantly to find what works and what don't
Deese, An Amish sharpener sold at an auction a couple weeks ago for 115.00. Not the best but working (no motor) some are selling drag sharpeners fairly cheap and they still work. Just need to keep looking.
Quote from: Magicman on April 17, 2017, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: Chuck White on April 17, 2017, 11:39:53 AM
When you have your own sharpening equipment, you are not quite so pressed into getting all you can out of one sharpening, so therefore you pull the blade as soon as you see that it's slowing down in the cut!
If you send your blades out to be resharpened, you would seem to have the tendency to get all you can out of it before pulling it!
Absolutely not true, (at least in my case) but I can not speak for others. Blade resharpening cost should never be a factor regarding changing blades. If the blade is showing signs of dullness, either visually or lumber quality, then the blade needs changing.
I know what you are saying and agree the cost shouldn't enter the equation, but it does sometimes, there are a couple of sawyers in this area that send their blades to WM Resharp, they weigh in the cost of the shipping & Resharp and they push their blades and get every cut that they can out of them before pulling them.
Some of their old customers are my new customers! ;)
Quote from: Chuck White on April 18, 2017, 07:44:19 AM
Some of their old customers are my new customers! ;)
Yup, I have some of those too. There are two sawmills that are now virtually parked in my area and they were the "go to" sawyers when I bought my sawmill. I have had new customers say that they were hesitant to ever have logs sawn again because of previous poor quality lumber.
A sharp blade is more important than sawmill engine fuel. ;D
Quote from: tacks Y on April 18, 2017, 07:31:24 AM
Deese, An Amish sharpener sold at an auction a couple weeks ago for 115.00. Not the best but working (no motor) some are selling drag sharpeners fairly cheap and they still work. Just need to keep looking.
I've got a Cooks Cat Claw sharpener.
I can't speak to best blade as Simmonds, Lennox, and Kasco are all common in this area.
As for grinders, I prefer drag over plunge though I wouldn't say no to a Lorach CNC band grinder.