Sawmill Battery Died

[Magicman]

Yup, two years and another died.  I have always used Auto Zone Duralast batteries.  I know that WM now recommends the AGM battery, but since I did not want to loose my sawing day tomorrow, I just got what was available.


 
The WM recommended NAPA 7237 battery.

[redbeard]

That one should last you, I have had good luck with dura last deep cycle marine battery. I believe its 3 yrs old.

[woodmills1]

I had an older case tracked shovel dozer

the batteries would go bad early

I heard it was due to vibration , but my battery boxes were not big enough for the batteries that had the plates glued both top and bottem


been pretty lucky so far with my mizers but always wondered

[customsawyer]

If you can find a place that sells the Interstate batteries they will work the best. I think the number is a 31mp, but not sure.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Yup, two years and another died.  I have always used Auto Zone Duralast batteries.  I know that WM now recommends the AGM battery, but since I did not want to loose my sawing day tomorrow, I just got what was available.

Magic, if I'm not mistaken...the battery you got was recalled due to going dead over night.  :D

[kenlt30]

I agree with customsawyer, Interstate is the best I have used, lots of reserve amps for the limited battery box size.
I used to have trouble with the hydraulics draining the system.

[batteryman]

New to the forum.  But here is my two cents.  I run a battery specialty store in VA.  The yellow top optima or Deka intimidator battery would be my choice.   Both are Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries.   They will take more vibration and can be cycled with out damaging the battery.  Also, they have the ability to charge back faster due to there construction.  They are a bit pricey but in certain application they are worth it.  I personally think a sawmill would be a perfect application.  I recently bought a used Timberking B-20 for personal use.  And one of the upgrades was to add a yellow top Optima.  On side note have enjoyed the forum very much.  Have learned a lot and have a lot more to learn.

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Welcome to the forum, Batteryman. Your reply was very educational. Why? Because I don't know GRITS about batteries.
But I've learned something now!  8)

Thanks and again, Welcome.

David

[batteryman]

Forgot to mention they are sealed.  No acid leaking and less corrosion.

[Magicman]

Yup to all of the above.  WM first recommends the AGM and that is what they now ship in new sawmills.  After that, their recommendations are Deka 1231, Interstate 31P, Napa 7231, and Carquest 31HDP30.  My only short notice source was the Napa.

I could have had most of the others tomorrow, but it would have cost me a day sawing.   :-\

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, batteryman, and thanks for the input.  We will enjoy hearing more about your sawing interest.   

[thecfarm]

batteryman,you can teach us about batteries we'll teach you about sawmills.  :D  welcome to the forum. What are you sawing for wood? What are you building? Buying logs or your own?

[batteryman]

Don't want to get to far off topic.   But my dad has always been fascinated with lumber and I have always been fascinated with portable bandsaws and making sawdust.   After having 50 mbf ( I think I used that right that is 50000)cut on bandmills over the last 10 yrs.  Thought it was time to buy a mill.   I am blessed to have 500 acres of mt land in highland co Va and 200 in fort sibert WVA. Needles to say we have a lot of trees.   Getting ready to saw 20,000 bf of hemlock mainly 2 in. stuff but some weather boarding. Think I will start a new thread getting way off topic.

[thecfarm]

No big deal about way off topic. We don't get too worked up about little things on this forum. Most topics goes to food anyways.  :D

[tcsmpsi]

No big deal about way off topic. We don't get too worked up about little things on this forum. Most topics goes to food anyways.  :D

Well, that is only natural.  We can't do any of this stuff without it for very long. 

And, as we have long known, it is "thecfarm" brand grits, most desireable.   ;)   :D

[WDH]

Those "thecfarm" brand grits with put a jingle in your volt  ;D.

[bandmiller2]

Welcome Batteryguy, I was a fire service mechanic for over 30 yrs. and batteries were my nemisis,before battery conditioners it was a constant battle.Would any sort of shock mount help bandmill batteries.? Frank C.

[thecfarm]

I see this thread hasn't  turned to food yet.   :D

[bandmiller2]

CFarm breakfast will be served shortly. Frank c.

[Magicman]

Don't want to get to far off topic. 

The battery was simply a distraction.  The real subject is always sawmilling.  Well maybe it will drift off to food, or grits, but it will work it's way back around to the OP subject before it drifts off again.

I think technically the M for 1,000bf should be capitalized since it is a Roman numeral.  ;)

Yes, it sounds like you have plenty of sawing opportunity and we will enjoy hearing about your sawing adventures.   

[Cypressstump]

I run Blue top Optimas in my bass boat, 2 deep cycle for the trolling motor and a blut top starter battery.  Sadly, I must say I am having to replace them before the next use of the boat. These 3 Blue tops are only 7 years old,,,,, and are just now failing to hold a charge.

I was told that the older Optimas were better quality verusus the newer ones, due to some company buy out and current quality control type issues ? ? I read that on a couple baoting sites..

[batteryman]

The quality of the optma seems to be back. I wonder if part of the problem with them holding up is not because of them using more recycled lead in them.  Lead is very high right now.  Recycled lead is not as pure as mined lead.  We have noticed a decrease in the life of batteries over the past four years.  All battery companies are doing this.   And seven years is pretty good life.

On the vibration question.  Anything you can do to cut vibration will help the battery.  The two things I think with mills are.  First depending on the mill and charging set up from the engine.  Some set ups barely provide enough charge to keep the battery up and if you add elec over hyd the demands could increase.  Another thing I have noticed is the relatively small wire used on a lot mills.  This can lead to voltage drop over longer distances. 

The other problem would be if u don't run your mill much.  A battery just sitting loses some charge all the time. Not much but over weeks or months it adds up.  So if it was going to sit for sometime.  I would put a maintainer on it elec or solar.   

[Jim_Rogers]

One thing the electrical guy at WM told me was to check the voltage at each point where the wire (circuit) is joined. What I mean is the wire comes from the battery to the fuse box. The circuit is joined at the first point/post where the fuse bolts on. Then there is the other side of the fuse. Then the next point in the circuit. On and on.

So when you check the voltage at the battery (with everything turned off) the meter should read, let's say 12 volts. Now you check it at the first stud of the fuse and it reads 11.8 volts. That means it lost point 2 volts due to that break/joint in the circuit. Something is wrong at that point. It shouldn't drop point 2 volts.
The is corrosion at the stud where the wire hooks on. Take it apart and clean the connections, both sides and put it back together again.

If you check the voltage along it's way to the starter and you see a voltage drop of point 2 volts or more then there is corrosion at the junction in the wire/circuit.

If there is a voltage drop then the full power is not going to be put back in due to the same corrosion.

I think I have said it the best I can to explain what he explained to me.

I have used this system to find places in the circuit where there was some corrosion and after I cleaned up the terminals things were better.

Another point, they told me when I was trained on my mill at the dealer's place in NY, to never run the hydraulics without the engine running to replace the voltage used to make them work.

Jim Rogers

[Cypressstump]

   And seven years is pretty good life.

I meant to put a smily face behing that sentence,, ;D ;D,, I am stoked at the life of those batteries, especially since the first 6 years of their life was spent in the deserts of Albuquerque New Mexico where the dry extended heat seasons kills batteries quicker it seems.

[Magicman]

I sawed a little peanut job this morning and made the cost of the battery, so I am back even again.   ;D

Regarding battery life, I had always gotten 3 years from the Duralast batteries, but this last one only went 2.   :-\  I had my alternator rebuilt last year and it is pumping out 14+ volts.

[Banjo picker]

Welcome Batteryman...Good to have expertise in a new field ...   Banjo

[opticsguy]

In regards to Optima batteries.  One of two batteries in my Ford Deisel died and made the big step towards an Optima.  The optima died in 2 years and the other battery which is now about 8-9 years old is just fine.  In fact the optima had the shortest life of any battery I have ever owned, so for me, I cannot bring my self to spend 50% or more for a battery that gives only 25%.   Not bashing, just my experience.

[wwsjr]

I have been using NAPA on my mill for the last few years primarily due to a good friend being the local dealer, he also sells and services Stihl. I get about 2 to 2 1/2 years before replacement. I do not run hyd unless engine is running. I am a good battery customer with mill, Ford dually diesel, Tacoma pickup, 2 knucklebooms mounted on trucks, tractor, two lawn mowers, and my wife's car. 11 batteries to keep going.

[clww]

Don't want to get to far off topic.   But my dad has always been fascinated with lumber and I have always been fascinated with portable bandsaws and making sawdust.   After having 50 mbf ( I think I used that right that is 50000)cut on bandmills over the last 10 yrs.  Thought it was time to buy a mill.   I am blessed to have 500 acres of mt land in highland co Va and 200 in fort sibert WVA. Needles to say we have a lot of trees.   Getting ready to saw 20,000 bf of hemlock mainly 2 in. stuff but some weather boarding. Think I will start a new thread getting way off topic.

You and I really should meet, soon! Read my profile address. Welcome to the Forestry Forum, neighbor.

[Don_Papenburg]

I have had good luck with my optimas
the ones in my pickup were going on 12 years when i parked it to replace king pins when i had time :D.  last year the air compressor would not start ,just click so i ordered a new one and got the same response .  I thought thart I would clean up the old batt and put it back in saving the new one for something else.  anyway the date was 11 years and a few months .  So that one is going strong at twelve years plus and counting , I would hate to have to replace it in two years .
I was always told to never replace only one battery in a set of two or more because it shortens the life of both batteries .

[batteryman]

The rule we use in my shop is we do not like to mix batteries that are more than a yr old.  We have had bad luck doing this.  Also, the AGM seem to really shine in extreme applications.  We have found in normal application not worth the difference in price. 

[Magicman]

WM pdf on batteries and alternators.

[Jim_Rogers]

MM:
Thanks for posting that pdf file.
Jim Rogers

[hackberry jake]

My mill just has a lawnmower battery... And I thought that was a pretty big improvement over the string with a handle.  ;)

[Bogue Chitto]

I just had to put two of those in my truck MM.  $180.00  :'(

[Magicman]

Yup, I just had to put one in my old Oliver backhoe, "Fat Albert".

[Jeff]

Looks like I have to go buy a battery now too. :-\ Mine is one of those long skinny ones.

[Brad_bb]

I have heard of problem with some Red Top Optimas 8+ to 10+ years ago, but have not had a problem myself.  I am running 6 Optima 12V redtops right now in my 2 daily drivers, my two mowing tractors, and 2 classic cars.  5 of them are 6+ years old.  Having one last 7 years is doing well in my opinion.  I've had one fail, that was 6 years old.  I had one that I was at fault for- I accidentally let it completely discharge and didn't notice it for a long time.  It could not be saved.  I am definitely an advocate of Optima Red tops.  I use Battery Tenders on all my vehicles that are not daily drivers.

Why would you choose a Yellow Top(deep cycle) in a mill and not a red top(starter)?

[Cypressstump]

Humm,,, the three in my boat are all blue tops, 2 troller deep cycles and the starter is blue as well. Pehaps they have changed up their color schemes. or,,, I'm not color blind , am I. ;)


alos, the optimas are finicky about what chargers are used on them I was told. I use a digital trickle down to maintain 3 bank Pro Mariner that the Optima rep sid was compatible.

[Magicman]

Maybe batteryman will give us a rundown about the Red, Yellow, and Blue tops  ???

[DouginUtah]

Jeff, if I remember correctly that is an E3 battery.

Let me tell a story about batteries and Jeff's mill. When I owned it the battery died and I bought a new one but didn't install it right away. It sat on the concrete garage floor for a few weeks.

Jeff later told me that that new battery died shortly after he bought the mill from me. I was surprised. Now he needs a new battery after, what is it Jeff, six years?

Since I bought that new battery I have been told that you should never leave a battery sitting on a concrete floor as it will ruin it. I don't understand why that would be.  ???

[hackberry jake]

I have heard the same thing about concrete.

[shelbycharger400]

the battery sitting on the concrete is a myth.   plastic is an awsome insulator
the only way a battery will discharge is dirt and water on the outside of the battery to make a connection.
the other KNOWN thing is batterys Will freeze if not fully charged,  happens a lot on a cold garage wall.

seems around here in the arctic , reg car batterys, if you can make them last 2 years your doing good.   the best ones are the ones the car leaves the factory with.   trust me i have replaced a lot of them back working for chrysler.     walmart neverstarts..  about 2 to 3 yrs is all their good for.  made by exide i believe.

those napa batterys...  buddys brother had one of those agm napa's,  it lasted about 10 years.  they completely dead killed it several times by leaving it hooked up in a car.
well.. they hooked up 2 or 3 batterys in parallel,  put the HD battery charger on it,  usually it was overnight.. all were fully charged, good to go

want a contact number for a battery manufacturer
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm

[Magicman]

Since I bought that new battery I have been told that you should never leave a battery sitting on a concrete floor as it will ruin it. I don't understand why that would be.  ??? 

It doesn't be.  There is no current flowing from the inside of the battery, through the battery case, and to concrete, the metal battery box, or anywhere else.  Current (electrons) flow from one pole to the other and both poles are inside of the battery.

[batteryman]

Jeff if your battery is about 19 in long and 4 in wide.  It is either a 3EH 6 volt or 3ET 12 volt.   I would guess a 3 ET.


The differences between the optma's are yellow and blue are basically the same battery.  The yellow has side and top post and the blue has top and stud post.  They are both deep cycle batteries.  This means they can be pulled down and charged back without damaging them.   The are designed this way.  The red is a cranking battery meant to be used in regular applications.  Like a car or truck without big draws like a stereo system or winch.  Reds are normally cheaper because they don't have as much lead in them.  All are great batteries when used in the proper applications

[batteryman]

The concrete I feel is a myth.  Here is my explanation.  A battery becomes less efficient the colder it gets.  If memory serves me right a battery at 32 degrees only has 60 percent of it power.   So a battery sitting on concrete is going to be colder than one on a shelf making it less powerful.  Also as a battery gets colder it loses charge faster.  Once a battery gets so low in charge damage starts to be done.   Back to keep your batteries charged up if you want them to last.  At are shop we leave batteries on concrete all the time no problems.

A couple tricks if you have a dead battery.  Tricks don't work all the time.  First if battery is weak try to start twice in a row then wait two to five minutes try again.  The first try will jolt the battery and it may recover enough charge to get you started.   If it is cold out side and it won't start.   Try warming the battery up.  No open flames or sparks may cause an explosion.

[Delawhere Jack]

It doesn't be.

Grammatically abhorent, but consice, and to the point. I like it!  :D

[Magicman]

On here, one never knows.  We just go with the flow.   

[hackberry jake]

On here, one never knows.  We just go with the flow.   

Of electrons!  :D