Just though I would ask a dumb question of all you mill owners. A few years back I built my house and cleared my lot. I cut down about a hundred mixed pine, spruce and balsom trees in the process. Needing a few out buildings I thought I would hire a good miller we use in the area. He was in his sixties at the time. Being a carpenter and used to using inch and a half lumber at work, as well as using air nailers for the assembly, I asked him to cut all the lumber at one and a half inches instead of two inches. The two inch doesnt work very well with the nailers as the nails are only three and a quarter long. When I asked him this question he just plainly stated no, it would screw up his scale and that was that. My theory was I was only using it for out buildings and wasnt going to plane it, as well as I would get more lumber. I just chalked it up to him being older and set in his ways. Maybe his math was bad. Anyway just thought I would ask if anyone cuts this size or why not if it is not being planed down to a finished size. Just a dumb question. ;D
I will cut it any dimension the customer wants. It's not uncommon at all to cut 1-1/2" lumber. Must have not had a real defined ruler scale on his mill or was too set in his ways.
I've seen old circle mills with a paw and ratchet system that would limit to maybe 1/8" increment but could saw close to any practical dimension.
I do it all the time.
I bill by the quarter inch but clients can specify the thickness in increments as small as 1/16" on my mill. First board off we'll check it with a caliper and adjust if they wish. For 6/4 most want 1 1/2" but if they want 1 5/8" or 1 9/16" its no problem. Love setworks. smiley_thumbsup
Quote from: francismilker on April 03, 2013, 10:28:26 PM
Must have not had a real defined ruler scale on his mill or was too set in his ways.
I think Francis got it right.
I've sawn quite a bit of lumber using the 6/4 scale.
It's quite possible your sawyer didn't know how to use the "quarters scale", it does take a little thought when you first try to use it!
When I get done, I bill it as: 1.5 x width x length = board footage!
Special orders don't upset us,with the scale and pointer on my bandmill I can cut whatever the bloak wants.1 1/2" oak is very handy for trailer decks it fits under lips and gives more stregnth than 1" without 2" weight.I'd change sawyers. Frank C.
If you saw it proud by 1/8" thick and wide, and the air dry it, it will shrink pretty close to the same dimension as store bought lumber except that it won't have been planed smooth. The big pine sawmills in the South saw green at about 1.75" maybe just a shade less, kiln dry it to 19% in one day, and plane it.
You never said what type of mill this guy used, circular or portable band mill.
When I was helping a real sawyer some years ago, a customer dropped some large SYP logs for sawing. He presented a cut list that included 10 pieces 2"x14"x16'. My sawyer flatly refused to saw the 14" boards, stating that "Nobody needs a 2x14". We cut them to 2x12. Later, the customer came back and thanked us for not sawing the 14" stuff. He said the 12" stuff was almost too heavy to use, and the 14" boards would have been impossible. The old boys knew their business. Regards, Clark
I refused to saw 1.5" 10' long once, but only because the logs were 8'6" ;D
X2 what Chuck said :)
He had a woodmiser bandmill, probably about a mid 90s model. It was fully hydraulic. He wasnt the best around, but he was the cheapest and cut a lot of lumber in a day. As the lumber was just for outbuildings, I wasnt too concerned if the wood was off a bit. Unfortunately, he past away recently. I guess there might be a little extra work around as he cut full time.
With a Woodmizer I would think there should be no excuse. Mine is a 1990 model and it has a 6/4 scale on it, along with 4/4, 5/4, and 8/4. Besides all this, it is easy to make 3/4 by following the 1 inch marks on down (making 7/8 inch lumber). A customer asked me this week for some 1 3/4" lumber, so that's what I made, even though I didn't have a scale for it. I figured up what the inch marks were I would need and wrote them on the goal post of the headrig with permanent marker, and also marked beside the ruler with the marker. If anybody cares to know, it goes like:
1 ¾
3 5/8
5 ½
7 3/8
9 ¼
11 1/8
13
14 7/8
16 ¾
18 5/8
20 ½
22 3/8
24 ¼
OR, to make them an 1/8 thicker than that, simply go every 2 inches down the ruler.
Makes sense to me. The only reason I let it go was he was a nice guy and he worked hard. He was in his late sixties and he could really pour the coals to a couple young fellows helping him.
Okra, did you figure in for blade thickness?
On my WM 1 inch scale, I start at 8 1/2 inches. when I get to my very last board it will be 1 inch along with the other 7 boards.
Looking at your chart again, it looks like you've figured 1/8" for the blade.
With help from reading this Forum, I made this chart for my LT10, which is based on a 1/8" kerth. I have to set the head height manually and if I read the ruler correctly, then the thickness of the board is correct (or close enough to suit me). I can mill any thickness. I recently cut a cherry log for a guy who wanted 7/8" thick, which was not problem. The only problem was I wanted $25 and all the guy had was twenties, so all i got was $20. Somebody already posted on the Forum to keep plenty of change for the guys who pack big bills. LOL
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25201/Chart_Sawmill.jpg)
Mills are different and so are blades. I add 1/16" for my blade thickness. It works every time on my mill.
Seems like my actual kerf is between 1/16th and 1/8th at 3/32nds. I just figure 1/8.
Quote from: WDH on April 04, 2013, 09:52:10 PM
Seems like my actual kerf is between 1/16th and 1/8th at 3/32nds. I just figure 1/8.
That's in Georgia though. You're closer to the Equator.
Yes, continental drift.
WDH...I concur. If your using .042" blades, and its not fluttering like a banjo string, it is almost exactly 3/32". ;)
Quote from: 5quarter on April 04, 2013, 10:20:13 PM
WDH...I concur. If your using .042" blades, and its not fluttering like a banjo string, it is almost exactly 3/32". ;)
Your right 5quarter.....there are and will be the vibration effect. That's just part of life. ;D
Quote from: WDH on April 04, 2013, 09:52:10 PM
Seems like my actual kerf is between 1/16th and 1/8th at 3/32nds. I just figure 1/8.
I figure 1/8 for the kerf. So far none of my customers have complained about an extra 1/32 of wood. It also makes up for the crummy operator not always managing to stop the headrig exactly on the mark. Not only that, but I think my blade tends to cut closer to 1/8 than 1/16 anyway, possibly from it being an old mill, and not always entirely ship-shape. And the operator/maintenance man being both too cheap and too broke to fix something that functions. . . . :-\
I can't complain, I've had a good week and I haven't even started on Friday yet. 8)
Ironically this post came up today. Yes I saved Sixacresand's chart. LOL I started building a small building to store wood in,Hmmm Found out it was pretty expensive to get 3.5" nails for my nailer all I had was 3.25" and bookoo's of 3". That being said. All I had was some dead oak logs and a few black walnut. so I cut out 35 6/4x16/4 oak studs and no I still have the black walnut log 8) but ended up being pretty easy other than off loading by my self. :D I have photo cell setworks but was to set on leaving then set at 1" due to thats what I cut most for other's mabey tomorrow I will set at 1.5" If I need more Did like the oak studs.
I figure my kerf like this:
I use .045" thickness bands and set at .025", so:
.045 + .025 set left + .025 set right = .095 total kerf.
So rounded off, kerf = 1/10".
Quote from: Chuck White on April 05, 2013, 07:14:07 AM
I figure my kerf like this:
I use .045" thickness bands and set at .025", so:
.045 + .025 set left + .025 set right = .095 total kerf.
So rounded off, kerf = 1/10".
You're closer to me than the rest, Chuck.
Quote from: Sixacresand on April 04, 2013, 09:05:46 PM
With help from reading this Forum, I made this chart for my LT10, which is based on a 1/8" kerth. I have to set the head height manually and if I read the ruler correctly, then the thickness of the board is correct (or close enough to suit me). I can mill any thickness. I recently cut a cherry log for a guy who wanted 7/8" thick, which was not problem. The only problem was I wanted $25 and all the guy had was twenties, so all i got was $20. Somebody already posted on the Forum to keep plenty of change for the guys who pack big bills. LOL
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/25201/Chart_Sawmill.jpg)
Pretty handy chart sixacresand. I have every scale I have ever used scribbled on the walls of my sawshed.
I cut to whatever thickness the customer asks for. Two years ago I was cutting 5/16" material.
My business cards say "custom sawing", and that's what I do.
For one customer I sawed some 64/4 x 64/4 out of hard maple. For the same customer I sawed some 5/32" and 5/16" thick material for shaker boxes. For two other customers I sawed 1/2" material for paneling. Sawed some 3/4" thick NWC for bird houses. My mill has 16 set points and I have a different thickness set in all of them. The kerf is set at 1/8" in the computer. I have never used the scales supplied with the mill and if I had to I'd have to take the books out and go to school. Gerald
QuoteFor one customer I sawed some 64/4 x 64/4 out of hard maple
Is 64/4 a 16" ? or a typo and is 6/4?
Quote from: WDH on April 04, 2013, 08:58:29 AM
If you saw it proud by 1/8" thick and wide, and the air dry it, it will shrink pretty close to the same dimension as store bought lumber except that it won't have been planed smooth. The big pine sawmills in the South saw green at about 1.75" maybe just a shade less, kiln dry it to 19% in one day, and plane it.
does that hold true with timbers as well?
for instance, if I cut 6x6 or 12x12 out of green logs, I would add 1/8" to have them dry close to the right size?
The wider and thicker, the more shrinkage. 1/8" is probably not enough allowance for shrinkage for a 12" wide timber. There are shrinkage calculators that you can use to estimate the amount of shrinkage based on dimensions.
I also figure in 1/8" for kerf even though it is under that, it's just easier to figure when cutting. Here is a chart I use when cutting nominal size lumber. As discussed earlier in another thread, sometimes the lumber shrinks more or less but I haven't had anyone complain and have had several repeat customers.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/23842/Nominal_thickness%7E1.jpg)
Beenthere: It was not a typo 64/4 x 64/4 or 16" x 16". The pieces were heavy. Also had to start with fair size tree to get this size beams without wane. Gerald
I run the .45s and my kerf seems to run around the 1/8 mark also.
I swiped this card off my brother the tool maker.
im workn on a set of calipers also from him.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/31588/image%7E68.jpg)
Fishpimp, two questions, how many ponds have you snuck into? ;D and why did it take you so long to post that handy chart ;D all things considered, folks with accuset or similar setworks have a "Lil" advantage in my opinion. I usually set for 1-5/8 for 2x's and add an 1/8th for the according width for dimesional lumber. the main consideration I have always stuck with is consistancy throughout the build, or matching the existing lumber. david
Quote from: drobertson on April 08, 2013, 09:43:29 PM
Fishpimp, two questions, how many ponds have you snuck into? ;D and why did it take you so long to post that handy chart ;D all things considered, folks with accuset or similar setworks have a "Lil" advantage in my opinion. I usually set for 1-5/8 for 2x's and add an 1/8th for the according width for dimesional lumber. the main consideration I have always stuck with is consistancy throughout the build, or matching the existing lumber. david
answer # 1
I learnt from my older brother mistakes. Lets just say i can run faster. Hahahahah a large uniform guy took dads favorite feeshn pole home with him!!!
#2
Long day sawin , haulin, and stacking .my backyard is lookin like my buddies boat. Complete disaster . I'm like a antique hoarder when comes to slabs and unique pieces of wood.
My wife called me a tree hugger today ....
My mill has accuset 2 itself. Absolutely awesome if u ask me . Auto down is my best friend . Although my first board in auto down mode is a little bit light.
I hardly ever use my scale . It will probably come back and bite me like that 40" musky did !!!
I've been milling pine 2X6's today. Just using the 6/4 scale. I hope that's ok. I made a few that were 8/4, and the customer decided to go smaller. Framing a small barn here, and it will probably be over-kill as it is. I am making them a whole 6" wide.
Quote from: rmack on April 07, 2013, 09:38:22 PM
for instance, if I cut 6x6 or 12x12 out of green logs, I would add 1/8" to have them dry close to the right size?
For flat-sawn Douglas-Fir I see about 1/2" shrinkage per foot of width. For edge grain it's about 1/4" per foot of width. That's air-drying from green wood to 10% moisture content.
A boxed-heart timber will shrink about 1/2" per foot of width, assuming checking is approximately equal on all 4 faces.
Quote from: Brucer on April 09, 2013, 02:07:14 AM
Quote from: rmack on April 07, 2013, 09:38:22 PM
for instance, if I cut 6x6 or 12x12 out of green logs, I would add 1/8" to have them dry close to the right size?
For flat-sawn Douglas-Fir I see about 1/2" shrinkage per foot of width. For edge grain it's about 1/4" per foot of width. That's air-drying from green wood to 10% moisture content.
A boxed-heart timber will shrink about 1/2" per foot of width, assuming checking is approximately equal on all 4 faces.
Thanks Bruce, I'm guessing edge grain is same as quarter sawn. that's good to know... it would be awful embarrassing to cut timbers that ended up being under sized. :D
Edit; took over night to sink in, but I think I got it, shrinkage will be different depending which direction relative to the grain. :)