Getting started

[Ianab]

Really nice photos, Ian!

Is that a winch you're using on the front of that 4x4?  I imagine it is because that duty would be mighty tough on the drivetrain.  My 4x4  weighs almost 9000 lbs, with a Cummins Turbo Diesel, and I would't try that one.  :D

Good on ya,
Bill

It's not as bad as it looks, in the 4x4 picture we are dragging logs downhill to saw them on the track where the Toyota is parked. ( Thats what we call a flat spot  ) The old Toyota had a factory winch driven from the transfer box so it was fairly heavy duty, and just a matter of taking things slow and carefull.
The CAT digger is hauling some logs up out of a scrub filled hollow, it handled them with ease, but it's $100 an hour  :(

Ian

[DanG]

Holy Cow, it took a lot of typing, but I finally got a bandmiller to weigh in on this. :  Jake, I don't really want to take ya on before breakfast.  I like ta wait till 'bout lunchtime ta do my light work. ;D :D :D :D :D

Bill, what I'm really trying to do for you, is to get you to look OBJECTIVELY at all of the different types, and as many brands as you can.  You asked what I would do, and that's what I told you.  I stick by that, but you owe it to yourself to make sure you're satisfied with the decision you make.  You can't do that until you've looked at a bunch of mills.  If you haven't made a decision by mid-October, come to Moultrie and see them all.  If you have, come to Moultrie and just hang out with us. ;D ;) ;D

[NZJake]

Gidday 'B', good luck with your quest, I'm sure you'll find what you need.

Heres some of my thoughts and a few pics of some logs I milled up in the weekend.

First off what ever mill you end up with you need some kind of equipment to move um around and stock pile them, sawmill hydraulics don't answer this they just simply get the log up onto the deck.

Bandsaw's slabs need to be rehandled (even with your fully hydraulic type), this is where an edger would be handy, all money at the end of the day. Things to think about are blade costs and the wave factor.

Portabillity, heres some pics of a log that I would class as not being ideally situated. This is an automated swingblade sawmill built out of aluminium, the abillity to clip togather always has it's advantages. This situation meant that we could not walk into the milling area, we just used the board drag back to pull the timber back to us. Ended up felling three huge logs this weekend too, should get around 40 ton out of them I'll get some pics in when I start to mill them up. Gets the old heart pumping when their standing next to powerlines and a road  : though.

There are also definate advantages to a swingblade over a twinsaw. Half the hp. Wide boards in both planes. Double width boards from doublecutting. Portabillity. Microkerf blade options down to 3.5mm. Slabbing accessories. Less push force on the manual versions due to the one blade. etc. Petersons will have a new website released very soon with some real cool information and diagrams, hints and tips, bf-cubic calculators etc so keep an eye out. Should be in the next week or so.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Good on ya, Jake!  Glad to know ya, too.

Those are all great points (and nice photos to boot).  It's a bit hard to tell, but is that a Peterson ASM you're using there?  It looks like you're eatin' up some mighty sizeable logs!   If my guess was right, I'd love to hear more about the ASM.

Tada for now,
Bill   

[customsawyer]

Dang I sure don't want to have to drive to Floriduh in this heat but if you keep it up I might meet you half way. :D :D
To answer your question I saw with a WMLT40HDD42 which transalates into a LT40 super hydralic with a 42 hp Kabota.

WHERE ARE THE OTHER BAND MILL FOLKS PLEASE SEND HELP! :D

All kidding aside pick the mill that best fits your needs.

[Larry]

Customsawyer I thought you was doing pretty good job all by yourself. 

I don't have any pine and saw very little dimension lumber where I live.  Not portable and never want to be.  Got support equipment but think your gonna have some kind of support equipment with any kind of mill...unless your 100% custom sawing.

So...I think wide hardwoods are good and that takes out the swingers most quick...although wouldn't mind a bit having one of those slabbers around.

Did a little pokin around at Sawmill Exchange...looks like there might be a few good deals on MD and MM's.  Iffen I was to do it again I might have to reconsider my thoughts about "wide hardwoods are good".

[twostroke_blood]

It occured to me last night while making 2x4's out of some smaller logs that a circle type mill might not be well suited to smaller logs, like 12" dia. However it also occured to me that maybe I should own one of those swingers in addition to my band mill for the really big stuff  :D :D. It also occured to me that my wife  ;D might think it is time for some new furniture instead  :(  oh well i'll miss her when she's gone  :D :D .....only kidding

[Captain]

What is wrong with a circular in small logs?  Why just big?

Captain

[Ianab]

It occured to me last night while making 2x4's out of some smaller logs that a circle type mill might not be well suited to smaller logs, like 12" dia.

Swingblade will cut 2x4s from a 12" log as easy as any other mill. But thats just it, any mill will do that job. The swingblade just doesn't have the clear advantages that is does with logs like Jake's one above.

And heck Jake, we call that a FLAT SPOT around here :D . I've had a bit of practice blocking up the mill on firewood rounds to suit the terrain before 

Ian

[DanG]

CUSTOMSAWYER!  You callin' me out, Boy?  I'll meet ya halfway.  Meet ya in Moultrie on Oct 19, at High Noon.  I'll arm wrestle yer scrawny self right there in front of God and everybody.  Loser buys lunch at the Mennonite Buffet.  Winner gets the privilege of off-bearing for Captain for the afternoon.

There!  Now that I got that little bizness outta tha way, let me make a point that you kerf-misers probably ain't thought about.  The smaller the log, the less important the kerf width is.  Reason is, when opening a face of any specific width, the kerf is taken out of the waste side.  When edging, the kerf is taken from the waste, and you come out with the same size board, no matter how wide the kerf is.  When ya look at it this way, the smaller the log, the less  the circle mill gives up to kerf loss. 

Now before I get accused of rekindling the band vs circle wars, let me say that I'd love to have a bandmill.  There are things it will do that my MD just can't dream of.  It's just that I cut a lot of relatively low value wood, ie, dimensional framing lumber, and very little high value grade lumber.  The circular dimension saw is best suited to what I do.

[Tobacco Plug]

OK, I will weigh in on this.  In my opinion, for the quality of the machine and the fine customer service, Woodmizer is the way to go.  I have had mine for 11 years and she's still sawing along.  Now, others might tell you that such and such a mill is better or that some other mill is cheaper, but for the total package I still say Woodmizer.  You can buy one knowing absolutely nothing about sawmilling and they will teach you, answer questions, and hold your hand as get you into production.  You need parts, they get them to you quickly.  You need advice or have a doohicky that is not running right, they have a toll free number and a staff to answer questions.  And that staff is broken down by speciality, so if you are having, for instance, and electrical problem, they will put you in touch with their electrical man.
I am really surprised that Bibbyman hasn't chimed in on this topic. 8)

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Howdy, all.

Well...that's four bandees and three circees since my last post -- that's a great balance!  I'm glad to see that the bandmill folks are offering their thoughts here.  Like I wrote previously, practically every word I read here is something new to me.  I'm really looking forward to reading more from both camps. 

One thing's for certain -- everyone seems to love what they're doing!  ;D

Bill in NOLA

[DanG]

We ain't really in different camps, Bill.  We're all in the ForestryForum camp.  We would just like to see you, and any other new sawyer, make an educated decision as to what type of mill is best suited to what you want to do.  We got folks that run big ol' industrial strength circles, right down to the tiniest little homemade bandmills, and everything in between.  We all love to talk about them and answer questions about them.  That helps us to keep learning, as well, because nobody know's it all.

See ya in Moultrie!  I'll be providing the logs for the Peterson team again, and if I can scare up enough trucks and trailers, I'll bring enough for D&L and Ecosaw, too.  If ya want ta talk with me there, bring your running shoes. ;D :D :D :D  Oh yeah! I'll be arm-wrestling over in the Woodmizer tent, too.  I'm old and weak, though, so I'll probbly hafta buy lunch. :-\

;D

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Howdy, Dan.

Perhaps my use of the word "camps" wasn't the best choice.  I only meant that I want to read more from those advocating both designs.  It's become pretty clear that one type has strengths when it comes to one type of cutting, and vice versa. 

If you need help getting a trailer to the show, perhaps I could do a li'l towin' fer ya.  But that's still a ways off, so...

Hey, Mike.  Did you get my PM?  I'd love to come out and see the inauguration of your Lucas.

Have a great night,
Bill

[twostroke_blood]

I plead ignorance regarding the circle on small logs. It just seems to me that the big circle will shoot those little logs out like a torpedo, or make them wobal alittle at least. My point was  that I see an obvious advantage to using a circle mill on the really big stuff. As for the 24' and down logs, I'm sticking with my Band mill. And yeah where's Bibbyman on this???

[DanG]

Your wording was fine, Bill.  I just borrowed the word for a sec to clarify what the general attitude is here on the ForestryForum.  I've been pokin' a little fun at the bandmill set to try and draw them into this thread, and I wouldn't want any guests that come wanderin' by to get the wrong idea.

Thanks for the offer on the hauling.  Lindsay is gonna talk with the folks that run the show, to see if we can stockpile the logs in advance.  If we can, that would take a lot of pressure off of me, and I could handle both outfits.

Poor Mike is floating around somewhere in the Carribean on a cruise ship, while his mill sits idle, not even knowing what it's there for. :'(  He'll be back this weekend, but I'm afraid I'm gonna miss the christening.  My niece is getting hitched on Sat. and we'll have a bunch of outta-town relatives here all weekend.  Great timing, eh?

Twostroke,  to me, 24" is a large log.  Most of what I get are quite a bit smaller than that.  Most are in the 14"-16" range, and I regularly saw stuff as small as six and a half inches on my MD.  With the MD clamps, the log ain't going nowhere.  I can see where it could be a problem without clamping, though.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  OK, I will chime in here. I have run a 52" Circle sawmill (Corley), a Mobile Dimension, like DanG's and others, Built and operate an oversized Band Mill (Portable) and I have watched the Swingers, with GREAT interest.

  Dogging the log has to be done, except with the bigger ones on notched bunks, with the Swingers.

  I have sawn 6" logs (posts), on the big Circle mill. No problem, IF ya do things right. I have sawn 40" logs on the big Circle mill, slow and hazardous.

  Same with the bandmill, takes a LOT of time with the loading and turning.

  The MD's take some running around dogging and moving logs and slabs. They ALL make good boards.

  You have to figure out where the best use of the lumber will be for you, AND, if ya wanna go sawing for the public.

  Our scenario involves big logs, up to 40" right now, out of the river. We are going looking for some 10 FOOT + diameter logs this week. We've heard rumors  : : :

  Now, We have the bandmill, but, it won't do it all. We WANT a Swinger, because it will saw sappy wood (SYP ) better, among others, AND, we can also use the slabber to cut them fine wide table slabs. The slabber will do up to 50" wide slabs.

  That will give us a well balanced operation. No moving of big logs with the Swinger, smaller stuff with the Bandmill, and specialty cuts with either mill.

  I am moving to Costa Rica, soon. There, I will be sawing Teak. It is abrasive, so, Carbide teeth will help a lot. That means a Swinger. Also, the Teak logs will be from 6" to , maybe, 20" in dia. Small logs will mean slow production. Swinger will still handle that. BIG logs, in remote jungle locations, Swinger, hands down. BIG table slabs from gorgeous tropical Hardwood logs, Swinger hands down.  The bandmill WILL saw the Teak, sooo, I MIGHT take the bandmill with me, OR build one down there.

  An MD would be a good choice for CR, but, the wide boards will not happen. There IS a market, I am told, for beams. Does that mean I also need an MD ???  They are not real portable, because of the length and the sharp rise and fall of the mountain roads (offroad), but, the MD's are great mills.

  My situation is definitely different that anyone here, so, this should show you how you must figure what you will be doing, and allow for changes in the future.

  I purposely left out the debate over kerf. Sometimes, that doesn't matter all that much ???

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Thanks very much, Twostroke, Dan & Deadheader! 

Twostroke: I definitely see where you're comin' from with your thoughts on the small logs.  I can see myself cutting up some smallish logs at times as well -- small pines mostly -- so your thoughts about doggin' em in are valid ones.

Dan: I'd like to know more about those Mobile Dimension clamps you mentioned.  From what I've been reading, it seems that they have a really good dogging system.  I'm sorry to read that Mike is out of town.  I'm preparing for a business trip and was hoping to stop by to see his new mill [maybe even see it perform its maiden cut].  I'm also glad to read that you saw [no pun intended] where I was coming from on my last post. ;D

Deadheader: First, I have to say that I'm happy to be correspondin' with another resident of F-L-A.  I'm a native of the state and my family home is on the Withlacoochee, near Brooksville.  In addition, I lived in Melbourne for years and, consequently, bought my shootin' supplies from a fella in Sebastian.  You wrote a lot in your last post, so I'll reply to some of your points below...

Right off, it seems that you've got a lot of cutting scenarios covered.  I'm envious, because that seems like the ideal situation to be in.  You have some good points about my uses of the mill and, yes, I definitely have the possibility of "sawing for dollars" in mind as I do my research.

I'm gathering that you'll be hunting for sinkers soon?  10 feet?  That's incredible!   That not only gets my desire to cut goin,' but it intrigues me as a diver as well.  Do you dive?

I also loved reading about the teak you'll be cutting in the future.  My brothers a big time boater out of Jupiter, so I know there's a market for that type of wood in his neck of the woods.  I also know it makes some fantastic custom outdoor furniture.

Your thoughts on the swingers are well taken as well.  Heck, if you get one of those...you'll have the spectrum just about covered! Good luck to you.

And, as always, thanks to all for the great posts.  I'm learning more and more all the time.  Please keep it coming...

Bill in NOLA

[Fla._Deadheader]

"B", check our website. Click on my user name and follow the link at the bottom of the page.  ;)

[DanG]

Bill, if you trip is taking you anywhere near Mike's place, you'll be close to me, also.  When will you be in this area?

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Wow, Deadheader!   

What a coincidence!  I only used the term "sinker" because they have a bunch of 'em here in the swamps of weezy.  But the rivers seem like a much preferred scenario for retrieving those big boys.

How do you do your exploration?  Do you have divers working for you?  As I mentioned before, I've got my share of diving under my belt. 

I'd also really like to know how you raise those suckers?  I've helped some folks retrieve expensive I-beams from lakes up north -- lost from structures during the winter freezes -- so that's very interesting to me. 

When I was living on the west coast of FLA, we used to current dive for miles along the Weeki Wachee and I vividly recall seeing plenty o' logs down there.  What a great idea...I LOVE IT!

Bill in NOLA   

[Fla._Deadheader]

My son and I are the divers, boat captains, salvors, loggers, sawyers, marketers, and BROKE.  ;D :D :D :D

  All the info you need is on that website.  ;) ;)  Wanna job ???  ;D ;D

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Dan,

There's a little bit of flexibility in my schedule, so I was hoping to incorporate some "pleasure" into my trip (ie, watching some saws cut).  However, I realize you've got something special going on this coming weekend, so I kinda ruled imposin' on you out :D

Anyway, the answer to your question is that I'm thinking about heading out this Friday.  But, as I wrote, that could all change a bit if something good came about...

Bill

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Sorry, Deadhead.  I didn't see the menu options on the upper left of the link. 

I've got more JOB than I can handle at the moment.  Why do you think I'm buying a mill? :D  Seriously, though, I'd love to see that recovery operation.  I think that's a fantastic idea.

By the way, last April. I helped clear a "drift dam" behind my family home on the Withlacoochee, so your reference to BLACK WATER is something I'm very familiar with. 

Bill...near the black waters of Weezy Anna

[DanG]

Pencil me back into your itinerary, Bill.  That wedding ain't till 6:30 pm on Sat.  I'm sure I can work in a little demo that morning or Fri. evening.