Bell Super-T

[leonral]

Hello all – new to the forum, and new owner of a Bell Super-T. I have purchased the Bell tree cutter recently and now need to get it moved over to my property, which is about one mile of the current vehicle location.
The problem is that the engine (Deutz) does not crank. Previous owner stated it started knocking at the time it was parked 4 years ago, now it won't crank. So, I am now considering several options how to get the Bell moved. And here I need advice what you think could work – and what not. Any other suggestion is highly welcomed. I added numbering so it is easier to refer:

1.   Remove the hydraulic motors to get it free wheeling: Is this something simple to do – or is there a pin/valve etc that needs to be tuned/activated for free wheeling? How to make the Bell free wheeling?
2.   To move the Bell, remove the cutter head and chain up the boom so the cutter is not dragging on the ground and the boom remains in the upper position. Do I need to put the hydraulic lever in the 'up' position so the hydraulic oil can flow back to tank while mechanically lifting the boom with my front end loader?
3.   I am purchasing a 12 ton trailer right now (pending) and would winch the Bell up. I have the option to purchase a PTO winch (used heavy duty, pulling capacity unknown unfortunately) or should I rather go with an electric winch? How much lb does the winch need? I figured around 12000-18000lbs? Bell is on grass, flat ground. Trailer is a tilt trailer with short ramps.
4.   If the purchase of the trailer is falling through, is it possible to lift-up the Bell at the rear (at single tire) with a 60HP industrial tractor (and tow)? Knowing that the Bell weighs about 8ton, and the tractor has lift capacity of 1.5ton, would that even work?
5.   Would it be possible to tow the Bell with the 60HP tractor for one mile (back roads, no traffic)?
6.   Would a car wrecker be an option to lift-up the Bell at the rear and tow for one mile?
7.   Other options?

Yes, I could hire a crew with heavy duty equipment to get it loaded, but looking for (safe) alternative options to not pay thousands of $ for one mile towing ... 😊
Once I have the Bell over I am certain to have more questions about the operation, maintenance ect. But first I need to get it moving...😊
Thank you for your suggestions!

[Southside]

Welcome to the Forum.  As far as unhooking the hydraulic lines and towing that Bell down the road a couple of things come to mind.  First, those planetary are not made for high speed travel and how old is the oil in them?  That could be a disaster in the making.  Second they may have a brake engagement in the hydraulic motor that requires hydraulic pressure to release and turn so you don't take off uncontrollably when operating the machine.  

The same thought comes to mind about lifting the boom up, if the cylinder has a safety pressure valve that requires pressure for it to move then unhooking the line won't do anything.  

Personally I would find someone with a detachable low boy and a log skidder.  Have them bring the skidder over on the low boy and use it to pull the Bell up onto there.  Drive the skidder to your place and drag the Bell off.  One mile down the road you are paying by the hour, so $300 - $500 should cover it as a guy will have time tied up loading and unloading his skidder, bringing along a second guy, chaining down the machine, etc. 

I would not try to drag that up onto anything less than a low boy given it's not running.  

[nativewolf]

Southside set out a nice plan.  Good luck on the restoration.

[barbender]

 There is a member here that has a wealth of Bell knowledge, but I can't remember his name right now. You could do a search on Bell machines and see who has given good answers in the past.

 Most hydrostatic equipment I've been around has spring applied/pressure release brakes. So when you have a dead machine, you have to back those brakes off until they are no longer engaging. Whether that is possible on a Bells I don't know.

 I'd love to have a Bells feller, they can lay a lot of wood down for what they are!

[barbender]

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=117388.msg1869870#msg1869870

[leonral]

Thank you all very much for your reply and advice!
@Southside - I do not (yet) plan to unhock the hydraulic lines, rather mechanically disengage the hydr. motor from the planetary. The previous owner told me he did that by ' removing the driveshaft' . I saw a other Bell which had the motor attached to the planetary, hence perhaps pulling out the motor may just do the trick.
I had a guy willing to do the job for $400, but this was with assuming the Deutz is running. Now, I have not heard back from him anymore 
Another company charges $800, also assuming the Deutz is running. They told me it does not matter if they need to move the machine 1 mile or 100, same 'flat rate', Hmm, thought Diesel cost goes into the quoting equation....
and @barbender- You are correct, it seems there is a brake in the motor/planetary that required hydraulics to unlock. Thats an issue...
Thanks for the link, good info too! I'll do more research..

[leonral]

Attached are screenshot from an old repair manual I've bought recently. The motor comes with a brake assembly and the hydraulic diagram seems to show the brake release hyd. line. But there is no good description. It just says there is a fitting and a hose. No idea what No 3 or 17 is...anyone knows...?

[Southside]

I think you will find pulling that motor off the mount and trying to remove the driveshaft, then trying to keep the oil in, if pulling it home is still a thought, is going to be a significant challenge. 

@BargeMonkey has turned wrenches on a lot of equipment, perhaps he can chime in. 

@kiko also comes to mind.

[Freedy201]

Hello all – new to the forum, and new owner of a Bell Super-T. I have purchased the Bell tree cutter recently and now need to get it moved over to my property, which is about one mile of the current vehicle location.
The problem is that the engine (Deutz) does not crank. Previous owner stated it started knocking at the time it was parked 4 years ago, now it won't crank. So, I am now considering several options how to get the Bell moved. And here I need advice what you think could work – and what not. Any other suggestion is highly welcomed. I added numbering so it is easier to refer:

1.   Remove the hydraulic motors to get it free wheeling: Is this something simple to do – or is there a pin/valve etc that needs to be tuned/activated for free wheeling? How to make the Bell free wheeling?
2.   To move the Bell, remove the cutter head and chain up the boom so the cutter is not dragging on the ground and the boom remains in the upper position. Do I need to put the hydraulic lever in the 'up' position so the hydraulic oil can flow back to tank while mechanically lifting the boom with my front end loader?
3.   I am purchasing a 12 ton trailer right now (pending) and would winch the Bell up. I have the option to purchase a PTO winch (used heavy duty, pulling capacity unknown unfortunately) or should I rather go with an electric winch? How much lb does the winch need? I figured around 12000-18000lbs? Bell is on grass, flat ground. Trailer is a tilt trailer with short ramps.
4.   If the purchase of the trailer is falling through, is it possible to lift-up the Bell at the rear (at single tire) with a 60HP industrial tractor (and tow)? Knowing that the Bell weighs about 8ton, and the tractor has lift capacity of 1.5ton, would that even work?
5.   Would it be possible to tow the Bell with the 60HP tractor for one mile (back roads, no traffic)?
6.   Would a car wrecker be an option to lift-up the Bell at the rear and tow for one mile?
7.   Other options?

Yes, I could hire a crew with heavy duty equipment to get it loaded, but looking for (safe) alternative options to not pay thousands of $ for one mile towing ... 😊
Once I have the Bell over I am certain to have more questions about the operation, maintenance ect. But first I need to get it moving...😊
Thank you for your suggestions!

Hey! Congrats on the new Bell Super-T!

Here are my thoughts on your options:

Removing hydraulic motors might be a hassle, and I'm not sure it's worth it.

Removing the cutter head and chaining up the boom is a great idea! Put the hydraulic lever in the 'up' position to allow the oil to flow back to the tank.

A 12-ton trailer sounds good. For the winch, I'd recommend an electric one. 12,000-18,000 lb should be enough.

Lifting the Bell with your 60HP tractor might be risky, so I wouldn't recommend it.

Towing the Bell with the tractor might be possible, but make sure it's properly equipped and securely attached.

A car wrecker could work, but ensure they have experience with heavy equipment.

Other options include renting a heavy-duty forklift or contacting a local logging company for help.

Prioritize safety, and don't hesitate to seek pro help if needed. Good luck!

[Riwaka]

We would just use a euro-crane truck that shifts pre-formed heavy concrete products as a day job and after hours use it to shift machinery that does not work.
Use certed welder to weld on extra lifting and anchoring points if necessary.

[leonral]

Thank you Freedy201 for your advice! I also thought a 12-18k lb electric winch is sufficient, until a friend of mine told me that he pulled a 2 ton tractor onto a trailer with a 12k lb winch and the winch really struggled. That was surprising to me.
Thanks Riwaka for that info! I'll check if such a crane, or shop who has one, is available in the area.
Appreciate all your input!

[Oliver05262]

Have you thought about pulling the engine and repairing it or finding a replacement with the goal of making the Bell capable of at least loading itself on a trailer for the move home ? One mile to home ? Maybe even running it home under its' own power (on a quiet night ?)

[leonral]

@Oliver05262  - yes, at the time the previous owner said it started knocking when they parked it my first thought was to sloooowly drive it home at very low idle speed. Now that it is seized, I am not sure how much effort it is to take the engine out on-side (no tools, open area, grassy grounds (any hoist crane may just sink in?). I have planned to do that in my shop at home...
But I actually thought of getting a electric hydraulic (small) pump and connecting it to the A/B fittings coming of the Proclain double pump. I would need two pumps though to make left/right turns driving up the street...
PS: I love your signature&quotes 

[BargeMonkey]

 Dirt road or black top ? How friendly are the cops? If I was going a mile and could get away with it I would just build 2x skids, drag it on and drag it home. The 1k bucks to have someone come grab it like Southside suggested is the way to go, dragging it up on a high trailer with that dolley wheel it may get fun. Can you get driveline parts for them easily? 

[leonral]

@BargeMonkey  - a few yards dirt road, 95% asphalt. Cops are very reasonable in my area, always helpful and supporting (until now )
Not sure if skids work, it's a 8 ton machine, very heavy...
I have found a nearby (and only one in the area) towing company with heavy equipment. Yes, charging by the hour and was estimated for a lowboy and wrecker at around $1200...
Now I am hoping to get the 12 ton trailer I intend to purchase (need anyway) and just use the wrecker to load it....cuts cost in half...

[customsawyer]

I've seen more accidents happen when unloading a piece of equipment than when loading it. For some reason we tend to let our guard down once we get it on the trailer.

[BurkettvilleBob]

I bought a similar 3 wheeled Valmet machine last year that came with a non running parts machine. The seller knew a paving contractor with a big loader (jd 755 maybe?) and they picked the parts machine up and set it on the lowboy. I dragged it off with a smaller loader without too much trouble.

[SawmillNeal]

Does anyone have much experience with the valmet 503? Any information would be great

[leonral]

Good news for today: The planetary has been removed and now the Bell is freewheeling 
Next step is to lift the boom up and chain it up so the cutter head is not dragging on the ground...
If this works, the heavy wrecker could tow it down the road, he said....

[kiko]

You may be beyond this now. When you lift the head it is gonna dangle down . IMO it would be easier to disconnect the head below the rotator one bolt I seem to recall and disconnect the hoses and haul the head separately.   Then the f4l912 Deutz, awesome engine .  Cut the filter and look for metal, if none is found you could have a fuel knock or a blown fire ring. When I have built those engines in the bell.  I would tear down the top end and then remove the block same way going back build the lower end and install then build the top end in frame.

[BurkettvilleBob]

I have a Valmet 503, but probably only have 25hrs of run time on it. Last winter was miserable and the ground hardly froze. The deutz was miserable to start in the cold, either is has poor compression or the pre heater is junk, other than that it worked pretty well.

[chet]

Something is definately wrong. I ran a deutz for over a dozen years. Never had problems starting, even well below zero. 

[leonral]

@kiko, thank for your input. I thought about that too. However, the previous owner said he can fairly easily chain -up the boom and secure it in the up position with chains. He did that yesterday. Benefit is I guess to get more weight on the front, and it might be easier to lift up the Bell from the single wheel with some counterweight at the front
We'll see how this goes tomorrow; a heavy-duty tow truck is coming in the morning....

[leonral]

Pictures from the Bell planetary taken out to make it freewheeling. I was told I also can just take out the gear that is on the shaft by removing the snap=ring...

[BurkettvilleBob]

That was an easy solution, good luck with the move.