I read about someone making H profile stickers. What's the reason for an H profile? Is it just to get a wider sticker? If so, is it 3x3" with a 1" groove for the top and bottom?
The H profile allows airflow down the length of the sticker, preventing trapped moisture and greatly reducing sticker stain in some wood. I generally use 1-1/8" wide x 3/4 high with a 3/4" wide groove.
Would these primarily be used for drying slabs?
Quote from: BillyB on December 28, 2016, 10:27:41 PM
Would these primarily be used for drying slabs?
No, pretty much every 4/4 wood that will sticker stain. Poplar, basswood, hard and soft maple, and red and white oak, etc.
In most cases they will totally or virtually elimate sticker stain. They do work well with slabs, also.
Here's my wife looking through the alley of a few of our stacks, all H stickers.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~75.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1412107970)
Here is a drying yard of a local mill, all stacks are on their home made H stickers.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/image~20.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1465342795)
You will find that the "H" profile stickers will last longer if the changes in direction (the corners) are rounded rather than sharp.
There is a patent that covers making the grooves at an angle across the sticker rather than one groove full length.
Stickers with a groove are used on all species and thicknesses. Having two types of stickers in one yard can be a big pain in the butt.
As note above, make sure that the height (usually 3/4" 99% of the time) is quite a bit different than the width so that the stickers are not turned 90 degrees by mistake.
Stickers can be any species, but some species with water soluble chemicals, like walnut, can have chemicals leach out onto the lumber being dried. Oak is the most popular species, mainly because oak is available and is very string.
Thank you for the information. I cut a little over 1,100 stickers last week. I made a sticker bin today. The bin is 16' long, 4' deep, and 4' high. I should be able to pack about 4000 stickers in there. When I get time, I will make some of the H profile stickers. Do you recommend planing the stickers down to 3/4 or can I just cut straight from the sawmill and use once they are dry?
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42057/IMG_1626.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1483066549)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42057/IMG_1628.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1483066549)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42057/IMG_1108.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1483066596)
Quote from: BillyB on December 29, 2016, 09:52:19 PM
Thank you for the information. I cut a little over 1,100 stickers last week. I made a sticker bin today. The bin is 16' long, 4' deep, and 4' high. I should be able to pack about 4000 stickers in there. When I get time, I will make some of the H profile stickers. Do you recommend planing the stickers down to 3/4 or can I just cut straight from the sawmill and use once they are dry?
Good stickers make good lumber. I always run my stickers through a planer, if they are not already planed, at least on one side, after they are dry, to get them to a constant thickness. Considering that stickers may be reused several times, it makes sense to get them right. With a decent planer, running stickers goes very fast, planing as fast as I can load.
I cut short logs for stickers. 3' or 4' long. Let the boards dry and then plane them to 3/4". Then rip them to 1 1/4" wide. It is a lot faster to plane boards than to plane the stickers.
Got my H profile stickers milled and cut about 110 BD FT of cedar this afternoon. Thanks for all your advice!
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42057/IMG_1634.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1483148772)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/42057/IMG_1109.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1483148772)
As there are water soluble chemicals in cedar, do not use these stickers on light colored woods. Perhaps after several uses on cedar, you can use them on darker woods safely.
Roger that. Thank you!
Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on December 31, 2016, 06:16:43 AM
As there are water soluble chemicals in cedar, do not use these stickers on light colored woods. Perhaps after several uses on cedar, you can use them on darker woods safely.
So does that mean the cedar sticks will absorb moisture from the fresh cut lighter wood and create fungi between and lumber and stickers?
Not likely that they will contribute to fungal activity. The issue with staining is that dark colored chemicals will leach out of the cedar sticks, leaving a sticker mark. It is not traditional sticker stain.
Quote from: GeneWengert-WoodDoc on December 31, 2016, 07:31:20 AM
Not likely that they will contribute to fungal activity. The issue with staining is that dark colored chemicals will leach out of the cedar sticks, leaving a sticker mark. It is not traditional sticker stain.
I assume maple would be a good species for stacking sticks, what about cypress, hickory or pecan?
I use about all erc sticks, so you are saying I should not use them on poplar, maple etc.?
Quote from: xlogger on January 01, 2017, 10:26:35 AM
I use about all erc sticks, so you are saying I should not use them on poplar, maple etc.?
I never noticed any ill effects from ERC as far as stain, but the biggest problem I've had is that the ERC is pretty fragile and the stickers crqck after several uses.
I prefer cherry, oak and poplar stickers.
Quote from: YellowHammer on January 01, 2017, 09:37:20 PM
Quote from: xlogger on January 01, 2017, 10:26:35 AM
I use about all erc sticks, so you are saying I should not use them on poplar, maple etc.?
I never noticed any ill effects from ERC as far as stain, but the biggest problem I've had is that the ERC is pretty fragile and the stickers crqck after several uses.
I prefer cherry, oak and poplar stickers.
Poplar and Oak work good for me. YH I suppose you're using a Dado on your table saw to cut the grooves?
Mine are R&W Oak. No H . With Pine and Hemlock it doesn't care.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22511/SAM_1026.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1483305055)
Quote from: Cazzhrdwd on January 01, 2017, 10:33:22 PM
Quote from: YellowHammer on January 01, 2017, 09:37:20 PM
Quote from: xlogger on January 01, 2017, 10:26:35 AM
I use about all erc sticks, so you are saying I should not use them on poplar, maple etc.?
I never noticed any ill effects from ERC as far as stain, but the biggest problem I've had is that the ERC is pretty fragile and the stickers crqck after several uses.
I prefer cherry, oak and poplar stickers.
Poplar and Oak work good for me. YH I suppose you're using a Dado on your table saw to cut the grooves?
Yes, here's a video of me making a mess of them. The powerfeed is running on high, a little over a hundred feet per minute with a 5 hp table saw. I salvage my kiln dried lower grade boards, scraps, and trimmings and rip them all to width, then dado them by the palletfull. A multi head molder would be the ultimate way to make these, and I even considered buying and setting one up just for this purpose, but haven't found an inexpensive used one yet.
It's hard to explain the frustrating feeling of breaking down a pile of dried wood only to find sticker stain stripes that go so deep they won't plane out, knowing of all the wasted work and effort that went into getting the logs, sawing the boards, sticking the piles, air drying, or kiln drying it and ending up with the dreaded zebra wood. As I said before, good stickers make good wood, but bad stickers will ruin it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jcrfH66gBI4
How many passes did you have to make on a table saw to get that wide groove? a sawblade is just 3/16 thick
Looks like he is using a dado blade in the table saw.
Quote from: SlowJoeCrow on January 04, 2017, 08:06:18 AM
Looks like he is using a dado blade in the table saw.
I use a 1/2" dado cutter head, or Yellow Hammer mentioned a molder; that would be the fastest way.
I've tried to run them through the molder, four feet long and 3/4 inch just doesn't do well. If I kept them long it work great but I'm cutting mine out of edgings so they get cut to four feet when green. If they're perfectly straight they run through fine, but any bow or warp and they catch on everything!!
I'm using a half inch wide stacked dado head cutting the groove on one pass per side. This leaves 1/8" left per leg of the H and a 1/8 inch center. The power feed is a one hp running on high, and significant dust collection is a must because the waste coming off the saw is chips instead of sawdust and can pile up in a hurry. The nice thing about a powerfeed is that it's set angled slightly inboard to the saw fence so pulls everything that way, even warped of crooked stickers get fed or forced in against the fence to keep the groove centered. We've made many, many pallets of stickers using this method but it is mind numbing.
Need any advise on this. I've got a slabber saw coming and I'm going to start cutting some larger heavy slabs, too heavy for me to play with. So I was thinking about making some 3" thick stickers so I could use my forklift to load and unload. So I'm thinking about making some H stickers for this. I've got a cheaper craftman table saw, not a very heavy unit and need a power feed. Would I be better off getting a heavier table saw? Also I've never use a power feeder, do they mount on the machine? I've got a jointer that would be nice to use it on also.
Also on 2+ inch slabs do you think using only 3 stickers on a 8 ft long slab would be ok or should I use more? I'm thinking the less sticker the less chance getting sticker stain or at least not as many stains.
After posting this I looked around and getting a shaper might be a better idea for cutting 2" out of a 3" sticker. I would think if I did this I would need at least a 3hp shaper.
Ricky,
It never ends ;D.
I make them on the shaper just because I have a feeder mounted on the shaper all the time. I have a feeder for the table saw also but its normally not mounted and ready to go.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/2006_04120030.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1192058162)
Ricky we need pictures of this new slabber. My neighbor has had a Lucas slabber for years....he has hundreds of slabs on sticks. A little pic of his showroom.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/IMG_1023.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1483845487)
I have a friend who uses 2x2 stickers for his slabs to use with his forklift. I have used 1.5x1.5 but only if the slabs are heavy, as I lose too much packing density. I bought thin, polished lumber forks for my forklift for just this reason.
There is a mill down the road who makes their own fluted stickers and they profile several sizes using a multi head molder, but a shaper would work fine. Here's a pic.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/21488/IMG_0001.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1483848487)
A powerfeeder is an excellent device. I wish I had bought one many years earlier. They mount to any machine and have articulating heads to be used on pretty much any machine.
Quote from: WDH on January 07, 2017, 08:03:50 PM
Ricky,
It never ends ;D.
I know Danny its all your fault, see what I'm doing after you told me about our "expiration" date.
Larry, it's on the way from NZ not sure when it will get here maybe end of the month but you can click on Turbosaw below to see it. That's all I've seen so far and youtube, I just like it because of getting forklift next to the log without removing the bar.
The power feed sure makes work easier even if its running fast. Didn't take you long to get that pile run through. Thank you for the video.
Made several hundred about 15 yrs ago on my shaper, power feed
Mixed AD hardwood, 1-1/2 wide 1 thick.
Dont use them much anymore as i am 95 percent softwoods, just use edgings now
Regarding the 3x3 or whatever size you need for a fork lift...use a 3" wide by 2" high and then screw or nail a grooved sticker (or two side by side) to the top and bottom faces to get the wider opening and still have ventilation.
Note the wonderful curved grooves, which provide a much stronger sticker than if sharp corners were used, in Larry's posting.
Larry what hp shaper and power head do you have on your?
Its a 3 HP Delta with a 1/4 HP feeder. With such a small cut, it runs as fast as I care to feed it.
Try as I might, I cant wrap my mind around how the h- profile stickler keeps the stack from staining. And I'm not doubting y'alls word?? ??? ???
Quote from: woodweasel on January 13, 2017, 12:10:35 PM
Try as I might, I cant wrap my mind around how the h- profile stickler keeps the stack from staining. And I'm not doubting y'alls word?? ??? ???
Airflow....
Wet wood against wet wood in warm temperatures can cause mold, discoloration, enzymatic stain, bugs, etc. So the more the surface area contacted the more chance of trapped moisture. The grooves in the H stickers allow air flow in the tunnel and dries out the moisture under the sticker.
Interesting reading about H stickers, I need to try them on white hard maple however my long experience with flat sticks proves they should be rough.
Why not try to create sticker stain and use more stickers, basic make a pattern out of it and sell them, creating your own market...I'm sure some yuppy would buy all you have.
What size would the blanks for the H stickers be milled at for the finished 3/4 x 1-1/8 stickers using different species of green lumber. Would 7/8 be enough for green white oak?
The green size is just barely ok. But you also,need to consider warp as the green pieces dry. For this reason, most stickers are made from dry wood, planing and then ripping to size.
Thanks for the information, I have not sawed any for the stickers yet but have some white oak that I wanted to use. Sounds like a full inch would be a better choice. I have a foley belsaw moulder planer to make the profile. Not sure that would work in one pass or what is the quickest. I could leave it set up until i have made as many as i would need.