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Pier question

Started by Berryhill, December 19, 2015, 08:48:10 PM

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Berryhill

I'm looking at the barn Geek plans for small barns that use the plates. It's what I think I could build, although I can only dream of the real timber frame. Talking with a local sawmill and he sees no problem doing the frame. Basically a 22x30 with 10 ft lean to's on each side. I am not interested in a concrete slab. Would like a raised floor cut out of rough cut lumber.

I was looking at perma columns and was wondering if they would be good enough to support this type of building?  I haven't ordered the plans or even contacted them to ask questions. Trying to research this myself.

I was thinking if a floor was added that the perma columns would be on 5ft centers with the uprights on 10ft.


beenthere

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Perma columns, assuming they are the pre-stressed concrete piers, should be a good idea for a foundation.

I'd be more concerned about the longevity of a wood floor, and how you keep it from rotting out.
What is the plan for the floor?

Wish you well on your build.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Berryhill

Perma columns advertise 10k psi concrete. They are 60" tall.

The floor would be at least 2ft off of the ground. I would hope that would be high enough. Thanks for your reply.

fishfighter

What you can do is pour concrete footing at 5' center. The pad should be 24"x24". For you, they will need to be thick enough to get below the frost line. Add a metal strapping to each pad that will be long enough to tie them on your sills. On top of the footing, install some house piers. They come in different heights from 12" to as high as 48".

I have some pictures in my gallery of how I did it, but for some reason, I can't get to older pictures.


beenthere

Your gallery goes back to Feb 4, 2015....
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

fishfighter

Yes, but for some reason, I can't get pass the first page of pictures. Maybe I'm just not seeing what I need to do. ;D

Berryhill

Electronics have a mind of their on sometimes.

I'm still learning this site. I just found the quote button.

beenthere

Quote from: fishfighter on December 21, 2015, 07:59:54 AM
Yes, but for some reason, I can't get pass the first page of pictures. Maybe I'm just not seeing what I need to do. ;D

Scroll to the bottom, and you will see page 2, page 3.. to click for the rest of them.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Brad_bb

Moisture coming up from the ground is a concern.  Have you thought about how to address that?  Ill it be an enclosed building or open like a barn?  Will there be airflow under the floor to prevent moisture from attacking your floor and post bottoms?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Berryhill

Quote from: Brad_bb on December 24, 2015, 02:42:35 PM
Moisture coming up from the ground is a concern.  Have you thought about how to address that?  Ill it be an enclosed building or open like a barn?  Will there be airflow under the floor to prevent moisture from attacking your floor and post bottoms?

It will be enclosed. What I understand is 1 vent per 150 sq ft is rule of thumb, but I'm interested in in all ideas. I do live humid south.

I'm researching on the best way to set the post on piers. Learning about what should contact and not. I've seen a few on here from older posts that pivot up. I like that, it would really help.

fishfighter

Quote from: beenthere on December 21, 2015, 03:03:50 PM
Quote from: fishfighter on December 21, 2015, 07:59:54 AM
Yes, but for some reason, I can't get pass the first page of pictures. Maybe I'm just not seeing what I need to do. ;D

Scroll to the bottom, and you will see page 2, page 3.. to click for the rest of them.

That is not showing up. :(

Berryhill

Quote from: fishfighter on December 26, 2015, 07:29:57 AM
Quote from: beenthere on December 21, 2015, 03:03:50 PM
Quote from: fishfighter on December 21, 2015, 07:59:54 AM
Yes, but for some reason, I can't get pass the first page of pictures. Maybe I'm just not seeing what I need to do. ;D

Scroll to the bottom, and you will see page 2, page 3.. to click for the rest of them.

That is not showing up. :(

I only see one page also.

beenthere

I just looked again, and there are three pages... so work on your computer for the problem, I'd say.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Berryhill

Quote from: beenthere on December 26, 2015, 11:49:09 AM
I just looked again, and there are three pages... so work on your computer for the problem, I'd say.

I figured it out. Click on sawmill title in the upper left. Shows all .3 pages

beenthere

Sawmill is the title of fishfighter's album. So yes, that would be the "trick" to see all the pics in that album. And listing them by "last upload" will put them in chronological order.  Otherwise, the will appear in alphabetical order, I think.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

fishfighter

Thanks. ;D
Here you go OP. As you can see, I used piers and cylinder blocks. Both just sit on the concrete pads.



 



 

Oh, those metal straps that are sticking up are for tying them on the build sills with lag bolts. A build code think here. ::) The pads are string and leveled for the lay out before concrete is poured.

Fundyheather

For my crude little buildings, I top piers directly with a piece of cut out side of chainsaw jug plastic to stop moisture wicking up from the ground; and above that goes a piece of sacrificial pressure treated 2x something.  Gives me something to put a shingle on or something to take away later if I need to adjust for frost settlement.

best luck,
jim 

Berryhill

Quote from: fishfighter on December 28, 2015, 10:26:24 PM
Thanks. ;D
Here you go OP. As you can see, I used piers and cylinder blocks. Both just sit on the concrete pads.



 



 

Oh, those metal straps that are sticking up are for tying them on the build sills with lag bolts. A build code think here. ::) The pads are string and leveled for the lay out before concrete is poured.

How did you attach your poles to the sills?

fishfighter

My floor joist run on top of the sills. Were each post is, I used a tenon on the bottom of the post and boxed that in. Then ran a all thread rod thru it. The tenon cut on the post has a small air gap between the sill and the bottom of the post for air flow. This is a closed building, so no water can get to the bottom of the post.

Berryhill

Thanks fishfighter.

One more question. I haven't decided on the perma columns or using sono tubes as I haven't dug a hole to see what type of material is below frost line. I will attach the post with brackets directly to the piers, I've found several I like or build my own out 3/16 to 1/4.

What are some options installing a subfloor when built on piers? Post are on 10 ft centers with a support for the floor in between those on 5 ft.

fishfighter

You are going to run floor joist? What will the building be used for? Weight on the floor? Building itself, how big is the flooring base? Floor joist at 16" center, you can span 12', using 2"x8" boards with no problem.



 

In my case, I used some 3/4" T&G OSB to cover the joist. They were glued down and nailed with ring shank nails. Now I'm coming back and installing 1bys at a 45 degree angle, nailing them down with ring shank nails to the floor joist.



    

Each board is sawed at a 45 degree angle on the running edges. Kind of ship lapping. The finish flooring will be 100+ year old pine quarter sawed T&G flooring that I picked up for free. ;D


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