The Meat Curing Thread

[mike_belben]

I need to sift the FF population for meat curing masters to pester with my noob questions and have a place to store my disasters.  

Ready set go

[kantuckid]

Chemical cured or old time salt cured? Chemicals I know from my meat packing days but I suspect that's not your interest. 

[Southside]

How I am not sure but I do know that spinach can be used to cure bacon.  USDA inspection forbids it because - get this - no nitrates are present..... You know, the bad stuff in bacon. Whose team are they on again?

[SwampDonkey]

I think they use celery extract on a lot of meats at some processing facilities. The second world war brought on development of a lot of preservatives. You can only eat so much rotten meat on the front lines. :D

[Southside]

Yes celery is used, and approved because it contains, nitrates.

[mike_belben]

well i hate celery so thats out! 


i finished grinding miss piggy last night actually, and i cured a few "steaks" in coarse kosher salt and a small, shoddy looking pork belly in morton tender quick.  actually i should go drain the water and look those over. 

[btulloh]

Being from Virginia, I would go with salt curing, but not everybody likes that. Freeze the good cuts and cure the bacon, shoulder, and butt.  Just the traditional southern perspective.

[Raider Bill]

How would you go about curing the bacon?
Been giving some thought into making bacon lately.

Used to have the Amish cure then smoke mine. What to give it a shot. 

[mike_belben]

yesterday i called a southern hillbilly buddy who i helped carve hogs last year. he cures with morton tender quick on cardboard in a shed in late fall, and then hickory smokes in a shed with a pipe from a little burn chamber.  

im doing mine in a pan in the fridge since its still pretty warm.  will probably add some smoke whenever its finished. 

[SwampDonkey]

Yes celery is used, and approved because it contains, nitrates.

It's a lot better than some if you can believe what you read.  :D

Naturally derived nitrites, all you need is 'natural' on the label and it must be better.  :D :D :D

[Southside]

Uranium, Asbestos, and Arsenic are all natural too. 

[mike_belben]

in looking up how to render this last bit of remaining lard from miss piggy, i came across quite the tale about one proctor and gamble having a very large cotton operation with a waste problem in the form of cottonseed.  so they pressed oil out of it which apparently tastes horrible so then it got hydrogenated and modified and filtered and cracked and whatever other thermonuclear processing into something hardly edible called crisco, which then had a fortune spent on marketing for crisco and against the rendered oils that had been around for centuries before, as terrible for your heart your this that and the other.  

in order to meet regulations for use as a food product, cottonseed oil has to go through refinement, bleaching, and deodorization to remove gossypol — a toxic compound. This toxic compound must be removed because it's been linked to infertility, pregnancy problems, liver damage, and respiratory distress. Unrefined cottonseed oil (the oil with gossypol) has even been used as a pesticide. In other words, it's not something you want to put in your body. 

then im finding current studies that lard and fats arent the evils that P&G painted them to be.  

however grain fed meat animals kinda are, since their ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 is exceptionally bad in a feedlot meat product.  wild deer is a much more healthy animal.  

anyways.. ive lost faith in our food system and already seeing major results from dietary changes in a sick family member.

[SwampDonkey]

I saw that youtube video to Mike. I try to avoid anything hydrogenated. In fact you have to watch what you buy when buying Tenderflake brand, which was always lard products. Well they sell a vegetable oil pie crust, so don't just grab and go by brand name, ....read to. Yep! :D

[SwampDonkey]

Uranium, Asbestos, and Arsenic are all natural too.

Nothing more natural than sawdust, it's in your Kraft parmesan cheese by the shaker bottle. :D

Ingredients: Pasteurized Part Skim Milk, Cheese Culture, Salt, Enzymes, Cellulose Powder, Potassium Sorbate.

They forgot the termites :D

We buy the unadulterated by the triangle block, grate it.

[mike_belben]

Which video ?  I had my reading googles on. 

[SwampDonkey]

post # 11  That same thing is on youtube verbatim.  You get to see the whole gooey process. :D

[DDW_OR]

Hong Kong alley delivery




turkey i made in 2015


 

will be smoking this years turkeys

[DDW_OR]

Montana	Sweet	BEEF	CHICKEN	TURKEY	FISH	CHEESE	WOOD	NOTES
							ACACIA	these trees are in the same family as mesquite. When burned in a smoker, acacia has a flavor similar to mesquite but not quite as heavy. A very hot burning wood.
	X		X	X	X		ALDER	Very delicate with a hint of Sweetness. Good with fish, pork, poultry, and light-meat game birds.
	X		X	X			ALMOND	A Sweet smoke flavor, light ash. Good with all meats.
X	X		X	X			APPLE	Very mild with a subtle fruity flavor, slightly Sweet. Good with poultry (turns skin dark brown) and pork.
	X		X	X	X		APRICOT	Great on most white or pink meats, including chicken, Turkey, pork and fish. The flavor is milder and Sweeter than hickory.
		X			X		ASH	Fast burner, light but distinctive flavor. Good with fish and red meats.
					X		BAY	Fish - safe for smoking as long as your tree isn't part of the Mountain Laurel family
							BEECH	Suitable for smoking
X			X	X			BIRCH	Medium-hard wood with a flavor similar to maple. Good with pork and poultry.
							BUTTERNUT	Suitable for smoking
							CARROTWOOD	Suitable for smoking
X		X	X	X			CHERRY	Mild and fruity. Good with poultry, pork and beef. Some List members say the cherry wood is the best wood for smoking. Wood from chokecherry trees may produce a bitter flavor.
							CHESTNUT	Suitable for smoking
X							COTTONWOOD	It is a softer wood than alder and very subtle in flavor. Use it for fuel but use some chunks of other woods (hickory, oak, pecan) for more flavor. Don't use green cottonwood for smoking.
X			X	X			CRABAPPLE	Similar to apple wood.
							FIG	Suitable for smoking
		X	X	X	X		GRAPEFRUIT	Produces a nice mild smoky flavor. Excellent with beef, pork, fish and poultry.
		X	X	X			GRAPEVINES	Tart. Provides a lot of smoke. Rich and fruity. Good with poultry, red meats, game and lamb.
							GUAVA	Suitable for smoking
							GUM	Suitable for smoking
							HACKBERRY	Suitable for smoking
	X	X					HICKORY	Most commonly used wood for smoking--the King of smoking woods. Sweet to strong, heavy bacon flavor. Good with pork, ham and beef.
							KIAWE	Suitable for smoking
		X	X	X	X		LEMON	Produces a nice mild smoky flavor. Excellent with beef, pork, fish and poultry.
							LILAC	Very light, subtle with a hint of floral. Good with seafood and lamb.
		X	X	X	X		MADRONE	very similar to mesquite
							MANZANITA	Suitable for smoking
X	X		X	X		X	MAPLE	Smoky, mellow and slightly Sweet. Good with pork, poultry, cheese, and small game birds.
		X	X	X	X		MESQUITE	Strong earthy flavor. Good with beef, fish, chicken, and game. One of the hottest burning.
	X						MULBERRY	The smell is Sweet and reminds one of apple.
	X		X	X	X		NECTARINE	Great on most white or pink meats, including chicken, Turkey, pork and fish. The flavor is milder and Sweeter than hickory.
		X			X		OAK	Heavy smoke flavor--the Queen of smoking wood. RED OAK is good on ribs, WHITE OAK makes the best coals for longer burning. All oak varieties reported as Suitable for smoking. Good with red meat, pork, fish and heavy game.
							OLIVE	Suitable for smoking
		X	X	X	X		ORANGE	Produces a nice mild smoky flavor. Excellent with beef, pork, fish and poultry.
	X		X	X	X		PEACH	Great on most white or pink meats, including chicken, Turkey, pork and fish. The flavor is milder and Sweeter than hickory.
			X	X			PEAR	A nice subtle smoke flavor. Much like apple. Excellent with chicken and pork.
	X	X	X	X		X	PECAN	Sweet and mild with a flavor similar to hickory. Tasty with a subtle character. Good with poultry, beef, pork and cheese. Pecan is an all-around superior smoking wood.
							PERSIMMON	Suitable for smoking
							PIMIENTO	Suitable for smoking
	X		X	X	X		PLUM	Great on most white or pink meats, including chicken, Turkey, pork and fish. The flavor is milder and Sweeter than hickory.
		X					WALNUT, BLACK	Very heavy smoke flavor, usually mixed with lighter woods like almond, pear or apple. Can be bitter if used alone. Good with red meats and game.
							WALNUT, ENGLISH	Very heavy smoke flavor, usually mixed with lighter woods like almond, pear or apple. Can be bitter if used alone. Good with red meats and game.
X							WILLOW	Suitable for smoking

[mike_belben]

man those are some clean hides.  pity they couldnt do the sidewalk.

[kantuckid]

How I am not sure but I do know that spinach can be used to cure bacon.  USDA inspection forbids it because - get this - no nitrates are present..... You know, the bad stuff in bacon. Whose team are they on again?

That meat cure fight began in full force years ago in your state of VA with the country ham thing as Smithfield is or was based there back then. As I recall Smithfield went to court with the feds arguing that it wasn't really a country ham is cured with Sodium nitrate and nitrite-which has some credence IMO. If a country ham is sold within a state it's OK to produce them the old ways using salt, smoke, etc.. Across state lines the feds come into the game. KY has the state fair ham competition which some are not sold out of sate. One things is safe to say- neither "real" or a "make believe" country ham as sold under federal stamps is even close to healthy for us. We like them byt stopped buy one every holiday. Our compromise used to be buying some sliced country ham at Walmart deli but quit that lately as all my family likes bacon better-unhealthy as well huh?
We processed bacon where I once worked and also seems in my senior mind that it got a soda wash sometimes for mold? Our bacon was very similar to the popular Wrights bacon we buy now-along with Oscar Mayers.
A big thing with bacon is the grade and the position your pkg came off the slab itself. I used to cheat when I ran the packaging room(where the bacon slicers were along with much more) and I'd get the best part but I also bought 5lb pkgs of scraps telling the girls to save me a good one.
I now go through the pile at meat shelves to get the right meat vs. fat ratio.
People fret over nitrates and thus we now have some no nitrate sausage products. Walmart sells a good one in Andouille but hard to find in stock lately. Thing is that processed meats are not so healthy between the fat % and the sodium then throw in the nitrates which are a poison of sorts. My neighbor thinks a bologna sandwich must have a 1/2" slab on it or it is not good.  I buy mine thin sliced so I'll live forever... ;D

[kantuckid]

Curing bacon in old fashioned, salt cured ways -then smoked - then freezing it is a great choice IMO.  In the plant we placed slabs in tubs of chemical cures along with brown sugar then hung it to smoke for a heavy cycle of 24 hours plus in the smoke house where all our smoke came from hiscory sawdust shipped to our storage bin from a sawmill in NE KS near Perry, KS.  Species of wood to smoke is, IMO,  like what meat or veggie do you like best? Fruit woods, hickory or white oaks are my favorites.  

[mike_belben]

How long do you reckon a salt cure takes?  Im using morton tender quick.

[Raider Bill]

Curing bacon in old fashioned, salt cured ways -then smoked - then freezing it is a great choice IMO.  In the plant we placed slabs in tubs of chemical cures along with brown sugar then hung it to smoke for a heavy cycle of 24 hours plus in the smoke house where all our smoke came from hiscory sawdust shipped to our storage bin from a sawmill in NE KS near Perry, KS.  Species of wood to smoke is, IMO,  like what meat or veggie do you like best? Fruit woods, hickory or white oaks are my favorites.  

Any idea what temp the smoke house was?

[DDW_OR]

Curing bacon in old fashioned, salt cured ways -then smoked - then freezing it is a great choice IMO.  In the plant we placed slabs in tubs of chemical cures along with brown sugar then hung it to smoke for a heavy cycle of 24 hours plus in the smoke house where all our smoke came from hiscory sawdust shipped to our storage bin from a sawmill in NE KS near Perry, KS.  Species of wood to smoke is, IMO,  like what meat or veggie do you like best? Fruit woods, hickory or white oaks are my favorites.  

Any idea what temp the smoke house was?

my dad was born in 1931
when he was a kid visiting a relatives farm he opened the door to what he thought was the outhouse.
it was not
in the center was a small soldering fire surrounded by the meat being cured.

there are two smoke cures
first is Hot 140 degrees and above, where the fat liquefies and runs. this is for short term use
the second is where the fat remains solid, below 140 degrees. this is for long term storage

[kantuckid]

Curing bacon in old fashioned, salt cured ways -then smoked - then freezing it is a great choice IMO.  In the plant we placed slabs in tubs of chemical cures along with brown sugar then hung it to smoke for a heavy cycle of 24 hours plus in the smoke house where all our smoke came from hiscory sawdust shipped to our storage bin from a sawmill in NE KS near Perry, KS.  Species of wood to smoke is, IMO,  like what meat or veggie do you like best? Fruit woods, hickory or white oaks are my favorites.  

Any idea what temp the smoke house was?

HA! My memory (50 years ago!) doesn't include the temperatures but with bacon I will say that temps are much less than any fully cooked products such as bologna which is a cold cut meat same as wieners and so on.  Pork hocks for an e.g. were cooked to safe eating temps unlike bacon. Bacon was the only product that went through at the lower temps as I recall as everything else was safe to eat when pkg. w/o cooking. 
  One of my treats was to walk by the SS expanded metal racks and steal a tidbit of that hock meat! Wowwee! 
 Just for kicks I can tell you that I was a young guy then who was supervising 35 women in a union plant-quite some experience it was indeed. I ran the packaging and shipping there. The smokehouse was under the sausage kitchen foreman, not me. The meats came into chiller rooms from the smokehouse and I had two men who pulled meats I chose for packing after a temp check based on orders I took off a telephone recording device from our many route salesmen who had their own trucks and delivered to mostly groceries and a few restaurants. I went in at 1:30 a.m. (try that in your 20's-I was hard pressed to have a social life!) and tabulated the orders off that machine that was old technology in todays world. I used tic marks on a large printed form then totaled the tics and wrote a plant production order based on the new orders minus my inventory of chilled meats(ready to be pkg.) combined with warehouse inventory. By 6 a.m. I had packaging room people coming in to startup machine lines.  
 I do remember a few tidbits  from the early 1960's though-The smokehouse man was one guy who worked lots of hours-his name was Mosey Marlow and he had 7 kids! I think his job was his R&R spot as it were. The smoke generator was gas fired with a large round basket filled with moisturized hickory sawdust. That sawmill had to segregate hickory sawdust to be our supplier-no other species was allowed into that truckload we bought that was augered into a storage container similar to a farms circular grain bin.
 I'll guess bacon was in the low to mid 200's? Definitely lower temps than what would cause the fat to begin to soften much. A meatpacking smokehouse has cycles with heat vs. smoke vs. no smoke, etc..  Mostly a heavy smoking operation with bacon. Hams got similar smoke cycles but fully cooked as were pork shoulders. 
Google probably holds the bacon answer.