steel plate connectors

[krusty]

Here is an award winning design:

http://www.bercovitzdesign.com/llh-spring05.pdf that I would like to do something similar to. My local structural engineer says no problem but has frowned upon the exterior metal conenctors forwater getting in them and eventually rotting the timbers.

What do y'all think? Alternatives?

[Jim_Rogers]

The pdf says nine pages but I could only see page one.
You should delete that link and do some other screen capture jpeg of the view you want to show.
Then post that picture to your gallery and put it into this thread.

Jim Rogers

[wwsjr]

I got all 9 pages, Total size was 6MB. Took a while even on DSL.

[Don P]

I got almost 5 megs in an hour before it locked up  :D.
I'd be afraid the exposed timbers, not just the plate area the entire joint, wouldn't last too long here if not treated. If you could enclose that work the rest looked fine. Drier climate might not be a problem.

Two things make me nervous, homeowner plans and award winning designs from achitects. One doesn't know they're pushing the envelope and the other does just because  :D.

[Jim_Rogers]

Well, ok then, it must have been my lousy connection yesterday, because today the whole document downloaded in seconds.

I have seen this type of connectors before at log and timber frame home shows.
Basically, in my opinion, the house shown is of what I would call: post and beam construction. I wouldn't really call it a timber frame, with all that steel and bolts.

One picture (page 5) shows the plates in the living room near the fireplace; these look kind of rusty to me. If it was my brand new house I wouldn't want rusty plates to begin with.
Most of the pictures and at the times I've seen these they were painted black, like this:



and




But they are also painted white, like this:




and




One of the most important things about using steel plate and bolts is to understand the correct locations and patterns of the bolts.
If you do it wrong you can weaken the structure and make it worse.
You'll really need to do some research or follow your engineer's bolt placement pattern so that this doesn't happen.

I would agree to the concern about having these outside and the possibility of water getting into the timbers through the bolt holes.

Good luck with your project and research.

Jim Rogers

[Thehardway]

Krusty,

I love my Gig connection, able to download it all QUICK!. I think I liked the stairway and table most! Lot's of eye candy there but I would heed your structural engineers advice unless you want some serious maintenance headaches and $ a few years down the road.

Usually homes like that are built without regard to cost or long term maintenance. 

If you must do it, try a true timberframe joinery design with White Oak timbers  or Cypress which weathers very well and then use steel plates with just the heads of bolts welded on thru holes in the back side and held in place with some finishing nails that are well siliconed.  This would avoid weakening the timber as there are no holes bored and no place for water to gather and rot.  There would be no visible difference and no long term maintenance issues.

There are a lot of wooden roller coasters built using treated wood and steel plates and the maintennace crews must go over them continuously tightening the bolts do to the movement of the wood, shrinking and swelling with moisture changes. eventually the steel wears into the wood and the timber has to be replaced or at least shimmed. Everything has to be galvanized.  Not a lot of fun.

[beenthere]

Jim
Good pics of the metal bolted plates. I sure wouldn't find them very pleasing to look at, but some might.

Also, I didn't think bolted connectors (or nailing practices for the matter) were the best, where the bolts/bolt holes were lined up along the wood grain. Like in the bottom pic, having three bolts in the same grain line that could split, would be a poorer connection than having the bolt holes staggered across the width of the bolted timber.

[krusty]

Ya I am well aware that this is considered 'post and beam' and sure I like Sobon's designs as well, but personally I think this structure is very cool looking. Plates are not rusted out, but the color used on most I beams and brick ledge angles.

I understand your points on the exterior use of these. A buddy in WA state has a post and beam house 30 YO and has had rotting due to improper use. I guess I could design the house so that they are easily replacable timbers on the exterior.

The ones used inside of course are not a concern but for the most part I expect the exterior ones to be simply decorative, not structural.

The ones under the second floor, are protected from moisture to a large extent and I would not be worried about them so much.

Bottom line the engineer has to like it so we can comprimise!

[Raider Bill]

I like them! Not on the outside though. Good concern about the holes lining up will try to remember that.
My plan has always been to use this type of connector for my Timber frame / post and beam greatroom. I love that black steel with silver bolt look!

On that note I'm up in Tenn. as I type [friends PC dial up } rented a bull dozer for 4 days starting this Thursday to clear off my building site. I'm finally getting started! smiley_turkey_dancing