Cheapest Way to Build a Garage ?

[snowstorm]

so why is a pole type garage cheaper if you are going to have a concrete floor?? i have done the ground work on 2 pole barns. the first was a airplane hangar. we set used light poles. it was a pain getting them straight square and plum. after it was built he poured a floor in it. the other was a barn for a dr. for his horses cows sheep. that one had to have interior posts for each stall. after the pad was graveled leveled then dig for each post. put a concrete round pad in the hole then 6x6 pt. and after all this he want a gravel floor. i tried to get him to pour concrete floor. i told him he was gona get tired of shoveling cow pop off that dirt floor. it looked nice when it was done. 2 yrs later he sold the place and moved

[btulloh]

The real name is "post-framed building".  Doesn't have to use round poles unless that's what you have or what you want.  6x6's or even 4'x6's work well.  Less material, less labor.

[OntarioAl]

pulphook
You are going to pour a slab.
Up here we pour the slab and footers as one.
Creates a "floating slab" to combat frost heaving
Then erect the structure of your choice
cheers
Al
 

[newoodguy78]

so why is a pole type garage cheaper if you are going to have a concrete floor?? i have done the ground work on 2 pole barns. the first was a airplane hangar. we set used light poles. it was a pain getting them straight square and plum. after it was built he poured a floor in it. the other was a barn for a dr. for his horses cows

sheep. that one had to have interior posts for each stall. after the pad was graveled leveled then dig for each post. put a concrete round pad in the hole then 6x6 pt. and after all this he want a gravel floor. i tried to get him to pour concrete floor. i told him he was gona get tired of shoveling cow pop off that dirt floor. it looked nice when it was done. 2 yrs later he sold the place and moved

The cost of digging the hole and pouring footings and frost walls to build off of is what the difference in cost is 

I do believe footings and walls are better in the northeast but definitely add cost

[Southside]

Can't bring in an excavator with a hammer to demo out the holes?

[WV Sawmiller]

OG,

   Yeah brings back memories for me of a project on a gold and copper mine in the Gobi desert. I used to eat supper with our drill and blast foreman - an Aussie. I asked him how he learned his trade and he said as teenagers he and his buddies buddies would go down tot he local dump and blow up old cars and such. he talked about cutting the lids off barrels with explosives being faster and easier than with a grinder. He talked about low explosive too. Said he laid a pipeline through town with it and never broke a window pane. He said they'd drill and make a space for the rock to fall in for first blast. Said he could blow multiples by timing so each blast created a cavity for the next one. He'd get real excited talking about it. Australia must be a great place to grow up in.

Snowstorm,

   My FIL said to drill the holes for the poles and square and plumb it with the framing you nail to it. He said let it float it will square itself up as you nail the framing and I have done this a few times and he was right. Every piece you nail makes it stronger and straighter if you are doing it right. After it is in the air and square and plumb then you concrete or tamp the soil around the posts.

btulloh,

   Thanks for the proper name. Makes sense. Looks simple to me if you already have the slab to just drill and bolt anchors into the floor. I have often seen homemade ones made of angle iron used for that purpose. 

[78NHTFY]

47sawdust--I dunno, a panel in the tree is worth two in the bush? :D  Thought you would ask why my truck is not in my nice 2 car garage but in the driveway covered in snow....I'll tell ya why: 'cause my side is chock full of good stuff  crap that I need to dispose of but cannot manage.  Kinda like sawdust fever, but in a bad way... >:(.  I'll have another good talking to him about it when I next see him in the mirror... .  All the best, Rob.    

[Don P]

Yup, pin the concrete foundation to the ledge and attach the post to the slab. The reason people put the post in a hole is an attempt to either sprout another tree or to pick up bracing and uplift resistance from mud. Use your walls to brace the frame whether it is sticks or posts or timbers. Bolt it to the concrete to resist uplift. The ledge is simply a bonus, you don't have to dig down to frost depth to avoid heaving, the rock is already down there providing the best footing in the world. A short stemwall would get the wood up out of the dirt. I can stick frame and tilt up walls about as fast as standing poles and girting in place but the post frame builders who do it for a living can flat out fly. 

[mike_belben]

Some nice ideas. But, due to the ledge here poles are out. 

They can sit on galvanized chairs and be redheaded into the slab with a hilti very easily.  Maybe a little bit of drill/grinder/chisel work to level the slab where the chairs sit but no deal breaker and still cheap.  

Poles don't have to be set in holes.  Better to fasten them to to poured footers anyway.

That is true IF your roof uses full cross ties in the bottom third of the rafters to keep the walls from spreading under snow load. 



The really real hillbilly pole barn in my region is a hayfield where a forest was cleared.  The white oaks or locust [rare now] or ERC that are straight enough to build but too small to sell to the mill or saw out are kept for poles.  The sapwood is hatcheted off and theyre sunk into the clay until you hit slab. A shovel of gravel then a few trash shingles are thrown in the hole to help seal the endgrain with asphalt and slow the rotting.  Here its a foot or 4 to sandstone or limestone ledge. 

Then the barn is framed up with only collar ties so that a 4th tier of round bale can fit under the roof in the slightly vaulted center bay. We have no snow load to speak of so pitches are shallow.  The timber poles set in ground are rigid enough vertically to withstand outward pressure of the rafters and not spread appreciably.  A back wall and front top plate is all that resists flattening the roof.  The tractor usually lives in the doorway so its okay to have a normal door height with clear span interior.   In my region wind is what takes a barn down.  
Anyhow, cutting your own tree poles is what makes a pole barn economical.  Buying posts may be different.  



I also see laminated posts pretty frequently.  3 sandwiched 2x4s or 2x6s where only the center piece goes into the dirt and is a pressure treated 2x maybe 4ft long with the rest being untreated to save $$.  When the center treated board rots you cut the nails with a sawzall and replace only that insert.  I havent formed an opinion on this system or priced it out vs more conventional methods. 



  For stick frame, a SYP 2x6 costs about a dollar more than a 2x4 at my local ace but the quality, strength and straightness are much better in a 2x6.  You can go up to 2x6 and jump to 24" OC spacing to get more rigidity, more insulation and less nails and measuring for sheathing... More strength for same or less money.  As long as you dont plan on fiberglass roll or batt insulation anyway.  

[Don P]

Poles don't have to be set in holes.  Better to fasten them to to poured footers anyway.

A couple of structural corrections Mike. The "rafter ties" in the lower third of roof height are needed to keep the walls from spreading either way, whether the poles are in the ground or on it. The way to eliminate them is to use a structural ridge beam, that isn't a ridge board but a big honking beam, there was a picture of one earlier in the thread.
The built up treated posts do run all the plies into the ground, not just one. There is an offset splice lap in the plies above ground where each ply then becomes untreated. 

[Pulphook]

OK OK I'm not a builder...a virgin having built and remodeled only two times.
1. How do you "pin" ?
2. What is a "footer" ?
3. Why pole construction as opposed to other standard methods ?
Thx.

[newoodguy78]

Pin= attach to something in this case ledge, usually done by drilling and epoxying in bolts to connect steel to which in turn you connect to your pole 

Footer/footing=what the concrete walls sit on usually 2 1/2-3 times as wide as wall is thick. Absolute lowest point of structure
Why pole construction over footing/poured concrete wall to build off of?  To save money

[doc henderson]

could not find the "pin" comment (for context) but probably just a nail or fastener.  footer is a footing.  mass footing or stem wall style footing.  so he dug a trench and poured the slab and let concrete go into the trench to go below grade below frost depth.  or sometime a mass footing is only 8 inches deep but 2 feet wide.  Pole buildings use less/cheaper materials.  around here people are always wanting free telephone poles to build with.  the poles can be every 8 feet or so, with 2x4s going horizontal every 4 feet to fasten corrugated steel siding.  trussed roof with purlins and corrugated roofing.check your local code re footings.  best to add rebar reinforcement.

[Mike W]

Pulphook,

1. is in reference to anchoring the slab to the foundation walls, via drilling into the walls and inserting dowels or rebar to be encased with the slab being placed, this anchors the slab to the walls to prevent heaving or settling of the slab separate from the walls

2. footer (footing) is typically a horizontal section of concrete which to "bear" the foundation wall or column onto which disperses the load over a wider bearing point against the soil, typically placed below the regions frost line to prevent heaving and settling with seasonal changes, in times past, large rocks were buried to bear the posts onto in lieu of concrete.

3.  pole barn framing techniques are utilized to maximize free span clear areas and most are not fully enclosed or partially enclosed for the most part.  it allows a lot of flexibility to finish out the "under roof" area without the need of additional bearing walls to support the roof.  post and beam or timber frame is a couple examples of this form of framing.  conventional framing relies on foundation bearing around the entire perimeter as well as some spot bearing points required with bearing walls to support large spanned areas.  pole barn construction typically is more cost effective to cover large areas with little ground/foundation work in comparison to conventional framing.

this answer some of your questions?  

Mike 

[Mike W]

Ok,

what Doc and newoodguy just posted while my slow fingers were still typing.... :D

[mike_belben]

Don- not arguing with you or saying what i mentioned is right, but i have seen both in existence with my own eyes a few times. Craigslist has put me on a lot of foreign properties and i am one to note details and ask questions just to fill my curiousity.  Granted i took the persons word that the lam beam had just the middle 2x going into the dirt as i couldnt really tell, but for certain i have stood in a few timber pole hay sheds with only collar ties and no noticeable spread.  Not new ones either. 


In fact i have been in many hillbilly structures that were closer to tree forts than anything resembling a conventional home.  Code enforcement? We cant even get the drug dealing and burglary laws enforced out here.  

[Southside]

Probably the cheapest way in the end is to do like that old Yooper song did - listen to the radio for a garage sale and call them so you can "buy that garage", just tell them they can "keep that stuff" that is in there, you don't want it.  That garage "gonna make a good wood shed out to my camp".  :D  

[Pulphook]

Guess I have built a pole structure in 2001...without knowing what the H to call it. The woodshed for 5+ cords was built using 6 spruce ~ 6"-10" DBH poles" attached to cinderblocks with brackets. The front is open, the sides and rear semi open with mill 2" cut offs. The floor is pallets. Fiberglass 2x14 corregated panels for the roof.
It has been solid except for a couple of blowdowns on the roof.
Still does not seem like a stable structure even tho it stands and does the job. Whatya know. 8)