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Author Topic: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story  (Read 11050 times)

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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2012, 09:15:54 PM »
The gin pole has all it's rigging on it:



And now the crew is ready to put it up.

To understand how it was going to go, I stood where they would move it to and showed them how it would slide between the temporary decking through the doorway in the frame wall:



It is important that all who were going to carry the gin pole understood where it was going to be moved to.

Here is a shot of the crew ready to pick up the gin pole while others pulled out the saw horse holding it while it was rigged up.



Here is a shot of it up next to the north wall:



After the base was placed where it should be, with the pole slid over against the middle tie beam, the back line and two side guide lines were secured to the post bases of the three bents already standing:



We often use the frame itself for the points to tie off the lines. It is easy to do and doesn't require any fancy anchors. With the "T" base we probably could do without the side guide lines but I would rather be safe then sorry.

More later.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2012, 09:29:53 PM »
With the gin pole up and ready, the plate was brought in and put onto a pair of saw horses so that we could attach the lift line to it and then the hook from the block and tackle.



Before we could lift the plate up we had to get the braces in place that go from the post to the plate, and the door posts and header into position:



Sometime, or most times we put a coin under a post in the mortise in the sill. We usually try and put a coin in that has the year that the frame was raised. We looked through several of the crew's pockets, including my own and we couldn't find a 2012 coin. We didn't know if they have even issued any yet. We found a nickel from 2010 and that was the year of the first workshop when we started this frame so we decided to use that coin.
We put it under the door post:



The two door post were installed and the header was pegged off:





Everything seems to be ready now.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2012, 09:47:25 PM »
Now everything seems to be ready:



The crew has picked up the pull line, and are standing by and ready:



The plate was raised and lowered down onto the post tenons.



Now due to the fact that the gin pole can't be exactly in the middle as the bent is there, usually the plate hangs a little bit off balance and low on one end.
This end is the first end we put the first post tenon into. Then we move down the plate lining up and sliding the tenons into the plate, working from one end to the other.

As the plate is being lowered down by the block and tackle, and sometimes an added hit with a commander, the tenons are aligned with their mortises:



We had a little trouble with the plate getting it in line with all the bent post tenons, and had to put a "tag" line on one end to help pull it into line.



Once this was done the plate dropped right on.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline VictorH

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2012, 12:17:23 AM »
Jim,  Thank you for taking the time to share this.  I am really enjoying each segment and am learning a few things!

Victor

Online John S

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2012, 11:34:13 AM »
Jim, thanks also for the time and effort you have put into this post and the forum in general.  You are educating a lot of people, especially me.
John Snyder
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2012, 01:31:43 PM »
Thanks for your comments, Victor, and John.

After the tenons were in line and down onto the post some we pegged them off:



Remember to always site through the peg hole before putting in a peg. If the hole hasn't been bored through then don't drive in the peg, you'll blow out the back side of the mortise. This is one of those things that they say "don't ask me how I know...."

Once one corner post was pegged we pound down the other corner post and this pulled all the middle joints down and they were pegged off:



After that side was done, it was time to do the other side.
To do that you disconnect your back line, side guide lines, and chain and stand the gin pole straight up.
Once it's vertical, you rotate it around 180 so that you can lean it over the other side and do the same thing again.



We found it was easier to lift the loop in the side guide line and back line up off the top of the gin pole to re-thread the lines down through the decking gaps to the posts on the door wall.
This was easier then handing all the line up and over the tie beam.



Once the gin pole was in place and tied off with the back line and two side lines and chain we lowered the lifting block down to the second plate which was placed on saw horses next to the wall:



The lift line was attached to the second plate as well as a "tag" line to hold onto the plate so that it wouldn't move out of line or hit the pegs as it was raised. I think we used two tag lines one on each end of the plate.



More to come.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2012, 01:44:56 PM »
After the second plate was ready, we had to get the two braces that go from the posts to the plate in place:





And:





When we ready these braces we don't drive the pegs way in. We drive them just enough to catch the back side of the mortise. This leaves the brace a little loose so we can move it as little as we need to when the plate is being lowered down onto the tenons.

Every man on the loft decking has to have at least one peg in tool belt or pocket to be ready when we need them:



This side went much smoother then the other side:



More later.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2012, 11:51:36 PM »
Now that we are done with the gin pole it's time to take it down. The pole is again stood straight up and the lines are untied. The chain is released and the lift block is lowered and tied off to the pole as it was when it was first set up.

Then the pole is passed down:





It is set back onto two saw horses, so that the rigging can be removed and it can be disassembled for storage until the next time we need it:



Shortly thereafter the rest of the temporary decking is lifted up and placed onto the tie beams so that the loft area is now full from plate to plate so that the crew can use it to stand on and erect the rafter pairs.

While we were waiting for the rafter crew to assemble the pairs and brace them off with a temporary collar beam/board, I instructed the second floor crew to add some safety "kickers" to the ends of the plates. These are just some 1by boards duplex nailed onto the ends of the plates and down the post a little to prevent the end rafter pairs from falling off the ends of the plate:



Then the first rafter pair was lifted up on one gable end:



After the pair was set into their step lap rafter seats the level was handed up and the pair was made plumb. To secure the rafter to the plates we used some 6" Timberlok screws, 2 each side. To hold the rafter pair plumb we put a 1by board from the rafter pair down to the plate on a diagonal angle, again with duplex nails.



More to come.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2012, 12:10:37 AM »
Here the loft crew is attaching the diagonal board to the rafter pair:



And to make sure it is strong enough we put one on each side:



The next rafter pair is ready:



And:



After the second pair is set down into it's seat on the plate, another brace board is attached to the underside of the rafter pairs. It was suggested to me that these be put on the underside instead of the top side where I usually put them so that they would be out of the way of the roof decking. They can easily be removed after the roof decking is started. I can learn something new as well.



The rafter crew is busy getting more pairs ready, down at the other end of the yard:



Jim Rogers
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Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2012, 12:30:24 AM »
The distance from one pair to the next at the seat, in the plate, should match at the ridge if the pair is plumb:



Here several pairs have been erected:



Another pair is raised:



The crew is busy carrying finished pairs as other continue to put them together. Team work for sure.



Bracing off:



The last pair, the other gable end, is set:



This side is looking good:



They are checking for plumb and all is good on this side:



The last timberlok is driven home:



And the whole crew is assembled, below.

Our host tops off the frame with a green bow at the ridge:



And the happy crew has their picture taken:



Basically "The End"

Jim Rogers

PS. Total time from beginning to end "four hours".........
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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2012, 01:05:16 AM »
I have two additional stories to tell about a raising.

One is at the beginning and one is at the end.

The beginning story is when everyone who is going to help on the raising is there we play what I call, the "name game".

How this works is that everyone stands in a circle. Our circle had 19 people in it.

I start the game.

I say my name. Then the guy standing to my left says, he is Jim, my name is Dan. Then the guy next to him says, his name is Jim, his name is Dan, my name is Dave. This continues around the circle until it get to the last person who is stand to my right. If we have two people with the same name then we add something like Mr. Mike to the second Mike or Dave P to the second Dave, or we call him David. Something like that.

Now after we have been around the circle once and everyone knows everyone's name, we switch sides and make sure we don't stand next to the same person again, on either side. We start with me and we go around the circle again, every calls out everyone's name one at a time.

By the time we have done it twice, which in this case took almost 15 minutes, everyone know everyone's name, for sure.

This does a lot of things. First everyone is introduced to everyone.

We don't have to yell out, "hey you, look out!!!!" We all know his name, and we can shout "hey, DAN, look out......!"

This helps a lot when you need to tell someone to "look out"....

Also, with everyone being on the same page, we are now a team. And we work as a team to get the job done. It builds team work.

This group of 19 was one of the biggest groups I have seen this name game done with. But I know of others who have done it with 25 or more. It works and when you have a raising do it and it will make the job go much smoother.



The name game......

The second story is the story of the "topping off " of the frame. Usually the green bow used to top off the frame is of a branch of a tree of the same type of wood that the frame was made out of.

And it is usually done by the host or owner of the frame. But sometimes others do it. I'm sure some others on this forum have some other reasons why or who should do it. And maybe they'll share them with us as well.

We usually say something nice at the time we pound in the nail holding up the green branch/bow.

I usually suggest that they "thank the mother nature" for the wood to make the shelter. And to "thank the old masters" for teaching us the craft of timber framing. And to "thank the creator" for the ability to learn this craft and to pass it on to others.

Also, to say, "Bless this frame, and all who worked on it, and all who enter it, forever and ever."

These are just some of the things I like to say at the end of a fine day of raising a frame.

I hoped you enjoy this story and feel free to ask questions about it.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline oklalogdog

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2012, 06:40:14 PM »
Good job Jim.  I can learn much form you and these photos.
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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2012, 07:41:57 PM »
Thanks for the effort to tell us the story of this raising and all the pictures . Nothing like a raising to bring out community and team work . Thanks again scouter Joe

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2012, 08:54:05 PM »
Great read and even exciting due to all the photos. That's interesting the rafter pairs with collars went up by hand rather than gin pole. I could see those weighing many hundreds of pounds each.

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2012, 10:24:33 PM »
I say great story and pics Jim!! Thanks for sharing, and I think I will try that "Name Game" soon!!
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2012, 11:07:22 AM »
That's interesting the rafter pairs with collars went up by hand rather than gin pole. I could see those weighing many hundreds of pounds each.

When you are planning a raising, you have to take the load of the timber into consideration in order to figure out what equipment you're going to need.

These rafters were 4x6x 9'4" which figures, at green weight, of 54.5 lbs each. They were over 18 months old so less then "green weight".
The collar beam is a 4x6x7'8", at green weight, of 45 lbs.  So the total when new was 154 lbs. Again as they have aged some we could round it off to 150 lbs for a pair of rafters with a collar beam attached.
The rafter pairs that have only a 1by board for a temporary collar beam weigh even less.

At a timber framing school, I was taught that each person, can on average, pick up 50 lbs without straining themselves. So it would mean that three people can easily carry and lift these rafter pairs with a collar beam no problem.

In the past when we did a larger frame we would past the rafters up and put them together on the frame.



This is what we do.



Also, in raising a bent we figure the load of the bent.
In the picture I want to show you, you'll see the bent being raised at the workshop where the first bent of this frame was cut.



This bent consists of two 8x8x 10'8" post, each weighing 166 lbs each. A tie beam weighing about the same 166 lbs. Two braces 4x6x50" weighing  24 lbs each and a nailer which is a 4x4x10'8" which weighs about 42 lbs. Total weight of the bent is about 588 lbs.
Now we aren't completely lifting this bent up. We're standing it up from the top of some saw horses with the feet of the post resting on the sills.
They taught me that this means 2/3 of the weight of the bent are at the feet and not being lifted. Which means the lift is 588 / 3 = 196 lbs. Divide that by 50 lbs per person and you will need at least 4 people to raise the bent. The picture will show you we did it easily with 6.

When you have heavy timbers you have to figure your loads and then decide on where or not if you'll hire a crane or build and use a gin pole.

Before we made the gin pole we put sheds together by just passing the plate up onto the deck and then have the second floor crew just lift it up and set it on the post tenons. This can be done completely by hand. But you need many hands to do it.

And we'd put the rafter pairs together up on the frame second floor deck. We'd put a plank over the plates to use like a table or saw horse. Then we'd put the feet of the rafter near where they will set into the plate. And then assemble the pair of rafters. (Again I have pictures of this see above). After the pair is assembled we just roll them into place.

Good question and thanks for asking.

Jim Rogers

 
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Offline reride82

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2012, 02:00:22 PM »
Jim,

Thanks for the very thorough and diligent walk through you always do on your projects . I really enjoy reading about your projects and the advice you give to others on this forum. I didn't know about timber framing before this forum, and now would like to try it in the future. I'm sure I'll have questions  :P

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2012, 02:01:40 PM »
I have a question about the rafter spacing, and collars ties, on the building you raised in this thread.  I am assuming that the building is the 12' x 16' "Sobon Shed.  In the photos it appears that the roof rafter spacing is on 4 foot  centers rather that the two foot spacing recommended by Sobon.  Also there appears to be additional collars ties in your shed.  In his book Sobon acknowledges that his shed is overbuilt so is the 2 foot rafter spacing necessary?  Are extra collars ties beneficial?  I am in central Maine so snow load is a concern.  Thanks.

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2012, 02:29:49 PM »
Frank:
I have had several discussions with Jack on this subject.
When you're going to use 2" tongue and groove for the roof decking it can span the 4', I am told.
If you're going to do 1" boards and not tongue and groove then you need to do 2' spacing as the boards can't span the 4' distance.

Your location my require a different spacing and that would be based on your actual snow load for your area.

The collar ties you see in the frame are special. First of all there is usually two. One on each gable end for the siding to nail to.
In her case she wanted a functioning beam to lift loads up the back side of the building on the rear or right hand gable end.

A drawing of this look like this:



And the frame work would look like this:



You can see to support the lifting beam there is two 4x4 posts on either side of the door. They sit on the tie beam, which is well supported and if it sags we can always put in a center support post under it from inside later on.

That supports the end collar beam for the light loads she'll be lifting with her block and tackle; up to swing into the loft deck through the small loft doorway.
This lifting beam would want to see-saw from the load. In order to hold the interior end down, I put another collar beam in, at the top of the lifting beam.
That means for this lifting beam to rotate on the gable end collar beam, it will have to raise the next rafter pair up, including the roof decking. I think the rope would break before that would happen.

Each rafter pair was screwed down to the plate with two timberlok screws on each tail down into the plate and each screw has high shear value. Equal to a 3/8" lag bolt.

I hope this has helped you to understand the roof system shown in the above pictures.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

Offline addicted

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Re: Pre-raising frame fit up story & raising story
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2012, 03:22:17 PM »
This is a great lesson Jim
 You wouldn't happen to have a good reference for gin poles would you? I saw the guild sells a rigging book, but I was unable to tell wether it covered gin poles. The reviews I found on the book talk mostly of knots. If you or anyone else have any advice on books covering gin poles it would be greatly appreciated. Also the block and takle you use looks alot like the campbell double sheave block. Do you like them? What is the working load limit and have you come close to lifting that amount with them?
Thanks for your help
Rusty


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