Chainsaw chain grinder help

[hedgerow]

I did'nt have any problem with a stone except for having to dress it once in a while.  I've had a CBN for about 5 years and haven't  had to do anything to it yet.  Steve

I have two old foley 308 grinders. I never look at or set it to the angles on the marking on the grinder. I have one set for raker's and the other one set to do the angles. I just mount a new chain on the grinder and set the grinder up that way. I still think you will like the CBN wheels better. I do take my chains outside and blow off with compressed air. Normally I don't wash them but I have some in the past. 

[YellowHammer]

No, that's not what I'm saying.  Never sharpen the chain with the side of the wheel, it's not designed for side loads and may blow apart and hurt you.  What I'm saying is that at the end of the plunge cycle, the hook of the tooth should be exactly aligned with the side of the cutting wheel or even the profile of the grind, if you go to the trouble to do it.

You are coming in at a slant angle?

You are missing the entire red triangle of the hook of the tooth that is being shown in the picture, and that is the part that does the cutting in the log and also should climb and be aligned with the side of the wheel of sharpener if done correctly.  If your wheel looks like the white lines in the picture, which represents the profile of the wheel, and plunges in the same angle of the picture, then you will still have the little red triangle of tooth, which is the cutting edge.  You are somehow grinding off the entire top cutting edge of the tooth. 

[barbender]

That set up won't work, and is probably your problem IMO. The angle of your grinder us what will determine the hook angle. The fact you are trying to create the hook with the radius is why your teeth look vertical. At this point I'd forget whatever assumptions or how you've seen other machines set up, because it isn't working for you. Shape your stone to match the template. Set the grinder for the specified angles for your chain. Set the grinding depth so the wheel just barely contacts the tie strap. Take very light passes. Now go enjoy your nice, properly sharpened chain😁

[barbender]

Any part of that radius that shapes the hook, is going to make it shallower than what the angle is set on the machine. If you're set at 55°, it's probably 10° doing it with the radius.

[slice107]

Just sharpened a few chains. I took my top plate angle back to about 25 and I'm getting more hook now. I don't know how or why that changes anything but I'm getting that nice little round hook like I get when I hand file.

I get what everyone is saying with that picture or at least I think I do. And for me in mg wood and with my saw that profile in the tooth doesn't cut and pull. I know cause I have tried it. But for now setting the top angle at 25 is getting me results I can live with. I haven't tried to cut with it but j can tell just looking at it it's more like my hand file and that's what works for me. 

I'm going to order a cbn wheel for it though. I just have to do some more research on that.

[JD Guy]

Could it be that the grinder head is not set up initially with it centered over the center of the vice as in the instructions? That could cause the wheel to not be grinding the gullet? Just throwing it out FWIW 

[slice107]

Could it be that the grinder head is not set up initially with it centered over the center of the vice as in the instructions? That could cause the wheel to not be grinding the gullet? Just throwing it out FWIW

I'm having trouble now with the teeth coming out different lengths. And I believe that's because of what you say. Although my grinder only has small adjustment in the video for that and I messed with it and couldn't figure it out. I just back the tooth up a bit and measure it to get both sides the same. With a cbn wheel that problem also becomes not a problem. I gotta finish a few more chains today and il do a post here on what I'm finding is working for me with pictures of the chain and my angle settings.

[slice107]

Here are some chains I have worked on the last 2 days. Top to bottom. I'm getting a bit more curve in the gullet similar tk when I hand file and I feel these are closer to what I'm looking for. I haven't tried them yet but I hope to the next nice day we get.

1 Oregon exl. I had the settings at 25-55-10
2 Oregon dpx 30-55-10
3 Stihl rm 25-55-10
4 Stihl rm 25-55-10. This one I couldn't get the nice round gullet I'm looking for so j tried a 1/8 wheel and for some reason I'm getting a round gullet. It's not a deep gullet so it might plug with chips fast but I'll try it and see.

My finding is that how I grind, the wheel profile does matter. Also to get the nice round gullet I'm looking for you gotta really play with the angles. They all change the gullet a little. At least on my grinder they do. I do feel that these chains will all cut okay at the least. 

If anyone reads this jn the future with grinder problems all I can suggest is that don't grind to much at once like people say here and also you really just gotta play with your grinder settings til you get a tooth that you like. Ony grinder if I want a deeper gullet I might have to change 3-4 settings to get that. I know from hand filing that for me the top plate angle isn't a huge concern if it's not 30* or whatever. It can be a fair bit out and still cut great.

I did also order a cbn wheel today. It should be here in a couple weeks. I think that will fix the new problems that have come up for me with different tooth length and also help to get a more round gullet.

[doc henderson]

the first one may cut, then it looks like the progression will end up not pulling into the wood.  I use +-30^o/30^o/+-15 front to back for each side.

[doc henderson]

My dealer does all chain at the 30/30/15

[doc henderson]

[ladylake]

 Grinding is easy, get the wheel low enough so you have some hook on the side plate, make sure the rakers aren't too high. It will cut good.  Steve

[slice107]

For me hand filing is easy. 

[slice107]

the first one may cut, then it looks like the progression will end up not pulling into the wood.  I use +-30^o/30^o/+-15 front to back for each side.

Those angles dont make sense to me but I'm not using a Stihl usg. 

I'm sure that those top 3 chains will cut at least decent. The last bottom one I'm not sure about but ill find out. 

Something j always forget is that with semi chisel chain you don't have that sharp corner and you don't really get that hook looking thing the same as with full chisel chain. 

[beenthere]

For me hand filing is easy.

Then you must know what the tooth should look like, I am assuming. 

Good luck figuring out how to get the machine to do that for you. 

[slice107]

For me hand filing is easy.

Then you must know what the tooth should look like, I am assuming. 

Good luck figuring out how to get the machine to do that for you. 

Yea I know what I wanted it to look like but was having a hard time getting it to look like that. I was looking for help to find out what settings I need to change but I think I got it now. Everyone gave good tips though about grinding too much at once. 

[Old Greenhorn]

You know this conversation was focused on the issues of grinding but is now including some hand filing and comparisons. It may be a small point for some, but I think it should be mention. To Whit: Each chain manufacturer forms their teeth shapes with a specific sharpening profile in mind. If you look on the box, it should include the proper angles that chain is made for. Changing this changes the efficiency of the cut. SO I assume the angles you listed earlier are the ones the MFG recommends? If not, what is the makers recommendations for the sharpening angles? That's where you have to start. If these chains are different, you are chasing a ghost. If I misunderstood what you wrote, nevermind.  Of course you can change those angles, but know that you are now free lancing and YMMV. I used to take my Oregon LPX chain, which are made as round full chisel, and re-file it as a square chisel and it worked great. But now I am exclusively using X-cut chains and notably, they take a '0°' angle on the file drop angle. Reading the box is important, tooth forms are important. Best of luck.

[slice107]

You know this conversation was focused on the issues of grinding but is now including some hand filing and comparisons. It may be a small point for some, but I think it should be mention. To Whit: Each chain manufacturer forms their teeth shapes with a specific sharpening profile in mind. If you look on the box, it should include the proper angles that chain is made for. Changing this changes the efficiency of the cut. SO I assume the angles you listed earlier are the ones the MFG recommends? If not, what is the makers recommendations for the sharpening angles? That's where you have to start. If these chains are different, you are chasing a ghost. If I misunderstood what you wrote, nevermind.  Of course you can change those angles, but know that you are now free lancing and YMMV. I used to take my Oregon LPX chain, which are made as round full chisel, and re-file it as a square chisel and it worked great. But now I am exclusively using X-cut chains and notably, they take a '0°' angle on the file drop angle. Reading the box is important, tooth forms are important. Best of luck.

the boxs that i have here only show file angles and have no mention about grinder angles. i dont have any papaers in my boxs and i have been trying to go by what the grinder manuals list for chains. even that is a crap shoot since oregon has atleast 2 grinder setups for oregon dpx chain. when i follow these angles its a mixed bag as to my results and it seems to change when i dress my wheel. hence me ordering a cbn. im just posting what seems to have worked for me personely eventhough i have yet to try the chain im confedent that they will cut. 

i for one am not a huge fan of how a stock chain comes from the box. for dropping trees its not too bad but i mostly cut firewood logs and i find that a stock chain doesnt pull as much as i like it to. i prefer to have a little bit more self feed then any chain that i have ever used new. the oregon cl (square ground chain) i bought had the rakers set to high. acording to the progressive gauges i use. but all the others i clean out the gullet and they cut fine.

[khntr85]

I know some times people don't like to stray from the numbers, but if you put a brand new chain on a grinder you won't get the same profile of cutter if you follow the "recommendations"....yes the chain will cut fine with the numbers stihl and Oregon grinders give you, but you can get an even better cutting chain with a little experimenting....

  For instance o cut hard woods, I can make a really aggressive chain, as long as the rakers aren't to low it cuts great....just don't be scared to play with diffrent angles you can and will get a badass self feeding chain!!

[barbender]

Yeah but if your chain isn't cutting very good in the first place like the OP's, I'd start with those suggested numbers and get it cutting right before I started experimenting.

[doc henderson]

Oregon Sharpener Settings for Stihl Chain (forestryforum.com)

[doc henderson]

this thread explains my settings, I do not understand yours either.     good luck.

[slice107]

Oregon Sharpener Settings for Stihl Chain (forestryforum.com)

thanks for sending this ill give it a read over. not sure i came across that thread in my search.

[slice107]

Yeah but if your chain isn't cutting very good in the first place like the OP's, I'd start with those suggested numbers and get it cutting right before I started experimenting.

mines not cutting good with the numbers in the chart from oregon. or tecomec. i just tried out a few chains i did and they all cut decent. they arnt as good as my hand file chains but they do cut. 

[slice107]

I know some times people don't like to stray from the numbers, but if you put a brand new chain on a grinder you won't get the same profile of cutter if you follow the "recommendations"....yes the chain will cut fine with the numbers stihl and Oregon grinders give you, but you can get an even better cutting chain with a little experimenting....

  For instance o cut hard woods, I can make a really aggressive chain, as long as the rakers aren't to low it cuts great....just don't be scared to play with diffrent angles you can and will get a badass self feeding chain!!

im learning this lol. just gota take some crap chain and work with it and learn how differnt setting change the tooth shape. then hope you can use the oregon or whoevers numbers to get you in the ball park and then play with it till it cuts like you want. i really thought a grinder was a set it and forget it kinda thing but im learning.