After the sanity check!

Satamax · June 20, 2020, 10:15:07 AM

Well, I have it now. It's been refited ats point , onto the jd 440b

It's been messed up with, the clutch tube cover is half tightened.

I have few questions.

What sockets or wrenches do I need for the gearmatic ? 1/2 i guess. By the way, it's a 19. A bit tatty. The splines of the input shaft are ugly. Any advice about dealing with this?

How many cubic inches do I need to move the clutch cylinder and the brake cylinder? What kind of pressure would those need? I'm looking at full hydraulic controls. Powered by the tractor hydraulics. But I need to be careful not to overpressure those cylinders.

Thanks guys.

mike_belben · June 20, 2020, 01:17:40 PM

If absolutely necessary, you can tig up the splines and reshape them with a cutoff disc and hand files. It has been working in the 3rd world since splines were invented.

Google around and try to find a .pdf file on the winch model. Somewhere inside it should call out pressures for each circuit. You may need to build a somewhat snazzy control with gauges and adjustable reliefs for each side. im confident you can do it.

Satamax · June 20, 2020, 04:16:32 PM

Mike, i've downloaded a manual, but it doesn't say much about pressure. I know i can do it. But that is if procrastination and laziness doesn't get the best part of me!

Ed_K · June 21, 2020, 06:43:16 AM

It doesn't call for pressures for operation as it's operated by hand control the clutch side I don't use more than 10 psi as it has a 2 clutch system where the first is used to push the 2nd into action. The brake side is used for free wheel where the control pushes a cam over effect to hold open the brake.

Satamax · June 21, 2020, 07:44:30 AM

Thanks a lot Ed K.

Well, 10 PSI is nothing. What would be fantastic would be to know how much the cylinders can cope with.

Thanks again.

Ed_K · June 22, 2020, 08:52:48 AM

The activation cylinders are nothing more than wheel cylinders on a car. On the pressure side i don't think they travel more than 1 1/2". An air cyl. would work for a remote control.

Satamax · June 22, 2020, 09:07:35 AM

Quote from: Ed_K on June 22, 2020, 08:52:48 AM
The activation cylinders are nothing more than wheel cylinders on a car. On the pressure side i don't think they travel more than 1 1/2". An air cyl. would work for a remote control.

Thanks a lot Ed K. I know.
I have found this. Which would be even simpler.
http://www.mega-line.de/index.php/en/products/clutch
https://www.magnetimarelli.com/sites/default/files/SF_ECA_rev3.0_p_0.pdf
But that's all "racing" parts. That might be costly.

I don't have air on the latil.

An idea, i could power those cylinders with the power steering hydraulics. That would be more gentle than the huge 50 cc piston pump i plan on mounting for the different rams.

mike_belben · June 22, 2020, 09:25:06 AM

Look into hydraulic "cutting brakes" for offroad trucks. Summit and poly performance sell them.

Tacotodd · June 23, 2020, 06:01:57 AM

Max, I don't know what pressure the power steering pump that you have is capable of but auto pumps have a 1200 psi standard, so be careful if that is what you decide to go with.

Satamax · June 23, 2020, 06:44:59 AM

Thanks TacoTodd.

Satamax · July 13, 2020, 02:52:18 PM

Woult you do a top frame, or?

mike_belben · July 13, 2020, 03:14:52 PM

Id move the roller as far forward as the winch driveline or cab would allow. Then id probably stub the truck frame off right behind the shackle mounts and build a hydraulic buttplate with a ledge bottom to lift logs.

I built a simple 3pt tractor winch with ripper teeth on the bottom edge of the butt plate that i find more useful than i expected in several ways. I can winch in 3x more log than i can drag, and with the teeth dug into the dirt i dont need to set any brakes at all. I leave the tractor in neutral, drop the plate and winch right to it without the tractor ever moving. It will stall the winch but not budge the machine.

Having to rely on the friction of brakes and tires on mud would probably halve the total pulling capacity.

Use the winch to reel logs to the plate then just hook the choker to a slot ontop, then fish out another. The winch being just a foot further back makes a very big difference in leverage and wheelies. I can winch in a lot, but not motor out as much if i use the cable so i switch the chokers to the plate when theyre winched in.

I used C channel turned upright with torch grooves for the choker notches and it works great. The teeth will break up dirt and gravels and steer a log backwards very well for decking a pile, but they can bite into them pretty agressively too.

mike_belben · July 13, 2020, 03:32:42 PM

A further thought, that truck is short and tall. When it stands up, its gonna STAND RIGHT UP and be at serious risk of going over sideways or backwards. With no cage that might be lethal. I really sincerely encourage a hydraulic butt plate to minimize the chance of a tall wheelie going over. On the tractor i come up the hill with the front end all the way in the air and steer with the cutting brakes but the butt plate limits the wheelie. It cant go over backward. You really need some sort of preventer for that.

This is 4WS isnt it? Whats the rating on the rear axle and tires?

Satamax · July 13, 2020, 04:42:53 PM

Thanks a lot mike, for the reply.

I completely forgot to take a pic.

I have a deere 440B log basket.

You can see it on the third pic!

Which i have bought with the winch and fairlead. I think this is as far back as i can go. I will cut the end of the chassis. I think i'll do something like a three point hitch for it.

Yes, the tractor is four wheel drive, four wheel steer. It's not that high. Just has a huge cab. And i remember what you said about the headache rack!

The old manual i have says:

With the 2 person cab.

3630kg total.

2210 on the front axle.

1420 kg on the rear axle.

Total charge on each of the axles

Front 6000kg

Back 6000kg.

So, 4580kg on the rear axle. Minus The fairlead, log basket, and some of the winch weight. May be a metric ton. (mind you, winch weight is spread somewhat between front and back)

So, 3580kg, at least. That's 7876 lbs.

I like the claws on your backplate.

Satamax · July 13, 2020, 06:36:27 PM

Well, i was wondering if i was using the old subframe i had scavenged, or making a new one?

Or bolting straight to the chassis?

There still a fair bit of metal to remove if i want to use that, but i like the bits which go down, to make a three point hitch of some sort.

mike_belben · July 13, 2020, 11:24:15 PM

I guess you did remove quite a bit of metal already.

I would only build a conventional "3 point" ag style hitch if i had attachments or serious plans for them.

Satamax · July 14, 2020, 03:25:12 AM

True Mike.

Since i have the AG PTO for this tractor. I was thinking, i coud fit sometimes a combine log splitter on the back. Mind you, if i carry on like this, this thing will never be finished! :(

mike_belben · July 14, 2020, 10:11:16 AM

A 3 point is an awesome invention but versatility adds in some weakness. The uniball ends need lots of clearance to work dry and they wear out and eventually tear apart. Top links rip the threads out or fold, and the biggest issue i think you will have is they slap around side to side and must have chains and turn buckles to prevent it. Well youll need a pretty serious turnbuckle to survive steering a hitch of logs when the bind up in a turn. If you snap a turnbuckle or chain in the woods the lift arm is gonna go into the tire, atleast on a tractor, and itll rip a lug off. Either way you cant move until its rechained and may not be able to rechain without hitching everything and driving out of it.

a 3 point means it can tilt relative to the chassis. Depending on layout you may need heim ends on the cylinder(s) or theyll bend the rod. My 3 point adventures have always involved some back to the drawing board moments.

I think a cheaper more sure recipe is a rigid 2 point mount with one or two conventional cylinders. A skidder front blade layout is what id do. No reason why you cant have pins and a pto shaft thruhole in that for future gadgets to hang off the butt plate.

Satamax · April 15, 2022, 08:51:29 AM

Kind of back on this.

If i don't shorten anything, send back arbors towards the front or anything.

I can fit PTO, reverser, winch and roller fairlead into the whole length of the frame.

I can't shorten it in this case. It will look daft with the log basket behind, even if it's raising and lowering with hydraulics. I had hoped to place the fairlead where it is on the pic.

What i fear is leverage.

Any advice guys?