Tractor vs skid steer

[CX3]

Why is it that most guys are using a 4wd tractor over a skid steer? It seems to me the skid steer would be much more versatile in the woods?

[Dave Shepard]

Until it gets stuck. 

[Skeans1]

Weight and ground clearance are an issue with a skid steer, but they're a great tool in your tool box.

[thecfarm]

Does a skid steer have a rear PTO? Ground clearance,as said too. I have 18 inches with my tractor. With rocks I go over,a skid steer would have a hard time.
I could use a skid steer too.

[TKehl]

Agree with all above.

Love a skid steer clearing fence rows when the ground is hard.

Loading logs...  A skid steer can do it, but a tractor has surer footing.  Ours doesn't have a weight kit, and is only a JD 250, but getting a closeup of the ground tipping from just cedar scrub in a grapple is plenty to understand a SSL limitations.  (Oh, and always wear the seatbelt!   ;))

That and SSL are lousy at pulling loads out.  Can load and pull with a 4x4 tractor with loader.

If you go with a SSL, get a heavy one and a weight kit.  Maybe tracks.  The guys at Turner Logging seem to  love theirs, but it's in addition to skidders and only stands alone on very small jobs.  

[dsroten]

My father in law has a tree service type business (removal and pruning and the like), and uses a larger skid steer with a grapple bucket.  It works great and picks up most everything he latches onto.  But it won't reach high enough to load my log truck, so there's that.  I'm using a larger JD tractor (6430) at the moment to load with until I get my old prentice loader remounted on another truck.  

Another guy close to me that is doing some small-scale logging has been using a skid steer to skid logs with, but he seems dissatisfied.  I still skid some with a 4WD tractor (5410 JD) and homemade 3pt winch and it works but it's a little slow.  Its small enough to scoot around in woods but on a big stem it doesn't quite have the weight to really pull.  The larger tractor will really tug but is big and tall and I don't want to be busting glass out of it.  So now I have an older skidder.  But as has been said, each machine has its uses.     

[nativewolf]

Agree with all above.

Love a skid steer clearing fence rows when the ground is hard.

Loading logs...  A skid steer can do it, but a tractor has surer footing.  Ours doesn't have a weight kit, and is only a JD 250, but getting a closeup of the ground tipping from just cedar scrub in a grapple is plenty to understand a SSL limitations.  (Oh, and always wear the seatbelt!   ;))

That and SSL are lousy at pulling loads out.  Can load and pull with a 4x4 tractor with loader.

If you go with a SSL, get a heavy one and a weight kit.  Maybe tracks.  The guys at Turner Logging seem to  love theirs, but it's in addition to skidders and only stands alone on very small jobs.  

Turner Logging mostly uses his on the floodplains which are very open and rock free compared to the forest we have here.  Nice guy, very approachable.  He's going to the Richmond Forestry show in 2 weeks.
I have a massive tractor that is unarmored, use it to mulch but it gets hydraulics ripped off all the time.  I'd be worried about any skidsteer without a forestry package roaming around in the forest.  Even then it better be tracked, sort of a must have.  

[Stoneyacrefarm]

Another thing to think about. 
When pulling with a tractor you are going forward and not backwards like with a skid steer. 
Tracks wear out a lot faster than tires on a tractor do. 
I traded my skid steer in for a tractor 5 years ago and have no regrets. 
I finally bought a skidder to keep my tractors out of the woods to avoid the broken glass and hose issues mentioned above. 

[reelman65]

Definitely watching this thread. I was thinking that a tracked skid steer would be best for non farming, field maintenance activities. 

[moodnacreek]

A skid steer has to small a foot print. When you hit a mud hole the whole machine is in it. With a 4 whl. drive tractor the wheels are spread out more. In a yard the skid steer is much faster than the tractor.

[SNAFU]

skid steer does not like steep ground,real tippy going over backwards

[CX3]

I have a 648g3 skidder.  I was wanting to add a piece of equipment to the line up. I have a 2wd farm tractor with loader but want to replace it with either a skid steer or a 4wd tractor. It sounds like the tractor is the way to go. I definitely want something with a shuttle shift or power reversed type tranny. It would be checkers loading logs or hay

[mike_belben]

In farm country a 4wd tractor with loader thatll handle logs is about 2x as expensive as the skid steer.

[YellowHammer]

I have what CX3 describes, custom order New Holland, T4.95 about 100 hp, heavy duty front and rear end, dual pumps, hydraulic power shifter forward and reverse, and able to lift about double normal farm tractor capacity.  Thing about a tractor, it's designed to pull, and it doesn't matter if it's a plow, disk, or choker full of logs, something's going to happen when it goes into 4WD.

[mike_belben]

Theres a guy in my area who logs with i believe that same model new holland 4wd with loader.  Its at my buddies shop getting front stub shafts pretty often.  The driver side inner that feeds power into the planetary set.  Sitting there now actually. 

[TKehl]

It would be checkers loading logs or hay

Tractor wins on hay to.  Can't see around the DanG bales on a skid steer.  It's alright in a pinch for short distances, but I've got 4 young kids and not enough visibility in a SSL as it is...

May look into a skip loader or backhoe with removable hoe.  The perks are the loaders and front axles are designed for loading, not just an add on,  and will have better lift capacity for their size.  Plus they usually have shuttle shift or better.

Power reverser is nice.  Had that on my bosses tractor when I worked hog barns.  Too rich for our operation though.  :(  Our newest is a JD 2755 with 4x4.  

[Skeans1]

I have what CX3 describes, custom order New Holland, T4.95 about 100 hp, heavy duty front and rear end, dual pumps, hydraulic power shifter forward and reverse, and able to lift about double normal farm tractor capacity.  Thing about a tractor, it's designed to pull, and it doesn't matter if it's a plow, disk, or choker full of logs, something's going to happen when it goes into 4WD.

I agree to a point but AG is medium  duty compared to forestry same with construction. Just for example take a 200 size dirt excavator for dirt or farm it's be fine, now put in the brush you need all new pans, heavier side panels, cab guard or new cab, cat walks, boom, bigger longer under carriage, full rock guard is just the tip of the iceberg.

[chevytaHOE5674]

In farm country a 4wd tractor with loader thatll handle logs is about 2x as expensive as the skid steer.

Things are different all around the country. Because UP here in farm country a decent skid steer will cost you way more than a tractor. 

Case and point 3 years ago I bought this 100hp mfwd tractor with loader for 15k and have done nothing to it but use it daily. Loader will lift 5k lbs without any trouble. A skid steer with a cab and AC that will lift half that weight will cost you 25k plus around here.

As for axles breaking that is completely operator error. Put that guy in SS and watch how he would snap one of the tiny stub axles or wimpy chain drives.

[Stoneyacrefarm]

Nice tractor Chevy!!
For 15k ?
That's a sweet deal. 

[mike_belben]

I agree, pricing is regional.  I could make a living hauling stuff from the north to the south if DOT would let me.  Pickups and junky cars are 2x more expensive here, go figure.  10k will get you a good skid steer every day here, 15k will get you a 2008 or newer track machine.  Older big 4wd loader tractors with cabs are 20k and up.  10k will get you a big 2wd loader but not 4wd.  Unless its a mahindra or some such toy.  Theres just so much hay and brush to mow.   Tractor demand is very very high.  Skid steer cant go on a lot of our ground most of the year.  Skidders start at 8k clapped out and go up from there. 

[DDW_OR]

I have a 648g3 skidder.  I was wanting to add a piece of equipment to the line up. I have a 2wd farm tractor with loader but want to replace it with either a skid steer or a 4wd tractor. It sounds like the tractor is the way to go. I definitely want something with a shuttle shift or power reversed type tranny. It would be checkers loading logs or hay

my tractor is a 51hp Mahindra 5520 4x4

wish the Farmi winch had a receiver hitch

 

made a chainsaw box. the lid is also the work table

[chevytaHOE5674]

There is a tractor jockey UP here that goes down to Missouri and hauls tractors north because he says they are way cheaper and abundant down there than in this region. He often makes 2x trips a week hauling cheap hay from here to there, then returns with cheap tractors and equipment from there.

[CX3]

Mike bring me one if those good 10k skid steers ill pay your fuel and a steak dinner

[mike_belben]

Youll not like the impound fees i tend to incur!

[CX3]

Man I'd jump on a good one for 10k seriously.

[62oliver]

I used my old bobcat with a grapple bucket in the bush for awhile to pull out firewood, it worked fine for the small amount I burn in a year, but if it rained any real amount I could not even move out there because it was so greasy. Same with the 310c backhoe, mostly because it is so heavy in the back, it just did not get around very good out there either if it was wet.
The 240E TJ changed all that.
  But you are asking skid steer or 4wd tractor, I would say tractor for sure.
Ground clearance is a big one and in soft ground you can get into trouble with a skid steer real fast!!
I have a Case 90xt, it weighs about 9000lbs, I wouldn't want to be stuck in the bush with that.

[Walnut Beast]

These guys said if it wasn't for the tracked machines on the really muddy days they wouldn't be logging 

 

 

[stavebuyer]

That ain't clay and those logs weren't layed out when it was wet unless they used a tracked helicopter. 

[Kodiakmac]

These guys said if it wasn't for the tracked machines on the really muddy days they wouldn't be logging  

 

 

Just curious.  Why are the logs laid out like that?

[mike_belben]

Veener buyers roll every log

[Walnut Beast]

That ain't clay and those logs weren't layed out when it was wet unless they used a tracked helicopter.

They do have a 450 steel track dozer and the 333 John Deere rubber track. But again if it wasn't for tracks 
 

[Nebraska]

Bet it was frozen ground when they were laid out.

[alan gage]

I have an old Bobcat 873 with 4500 max lift capacity. I bought it soon after I tried moving logs around with my dad's 70hp Kubota (M7040).

It was a $30k used tractor and the skidloader was $10k (older and more hours) but I'll take the skidloader any day for moving logs, lumber, loading trailers, digging, and grading. Lots of attachments available to rent.

The tractor is slow to turn, light on lifting power, has clearance issues (tall) and wants to tip over if you look at it funny. Tractor always wants to tip forward and sideways. At least the skidloader just stands on its nose when it's overloaded. I've never had it want to go sideways.

I know there are more appropriate tractors for this type of work and places where they would shine over a skidloader, just giving my personal experience.

Alan

[Satamax]

I've never understood the love you have with skid steer in the US. 

Over here it's telehandler land, or proper loaders. Loaders, for clearing the snow in winter. I have at least 7 within 100 yards of me. Telehandlers, 6. And any telehandler reaching over 20' has stabiliser. 

We use skid steer for small earth works When diggers and loaders can't quite get in the space. 

And funnily enough, they're expensive.  

Where i live, what you'd see everywhere. 

â,, Hitachi ZW220 chaînée au déneigement de Val Tho â,, - YouTube

Saison de paille Bio 2020 (1/2) CabView Manitou MLT 741-140V+ Elite - YouTube

[mike_belben]

Well ..until the stimmy era they were reasonably cheap and plentiful.

[Satamax]

Well ..until the stimmy era they were reasonably cheap and plentiful.

Huh, what's the stimmy era? 

[Nebraska]

Can't  be explained fully  here. Kind of a restricted topics thing...

[Ventryjr]

I was always a die hard tractor guy. Until this winter I had a buddy come with a skid steer to help me carry some logs out of the woods. Within 2 months I bought a kubota svl-75. Has 16" ground clearance, tracks and is rated to lift 2300lbs but will lift and move a lot more. Cheaper then a 75hp tractor and doesn't get flat tires.  Both have their uses but I will be using this to log more so then any of my tractors.  I only do this as a hobby and by no means have professional experience. 

[mike_belben]

Well ..until the stimmy era they were reasonably cheap and plentiful.

Huh, what's the stimmy era?

USA has been direct depositing tremendous amounts of cash that they call "stimulus" into individual bank accounts, whether asked for or not.   It has doubled the money supply, pushed prices of everything out of sight and basically coerced a large portion of the country to quit working.  A well designed 1st class trainwreck that has been brewing since the 1960s.  

[Satamax]

Yup. I think I got it. 

"Etat providence" as we call it. I think we've invented it in France.  ;D

[Walnut Beast]

I was always a die hard tractor guy. Until this winter I had a buddy come with a skid steer to help me carry some logs out of the woods. Within 2 months I bought a kubota svl-75. Has 16" ground clearance, tracks and is rated to lift 2300lbs but will lift and move a lot more. Cheaper then a 75hp tractor and doesn't get flat tires.  Both have their uses but I will be using this to log more so then any of my tractors.  I only do this as a hobby and by no means have professional experience.

Hands on experience dictates good decisions 👍

[KWood255]

I have had 3 skid steers, 2 with tires (and steel tracks) and one rubber track machine. Fantastic machines on hard ground, and decent in the bush when running the tracks. For logging, unless you are going to carry logs on a grapple or forks, you are very limited to move any distance efficiently. Ground clearance is minimal, and they are rough!

I now have a 75hp Kubota 4wd tractor with loader. I'm totally impressed with the versatility. 3 point hitch attachments like the skidder winches are easy to find (pre-covid), and relatively inexpensive. I can lift a little better than 3000lbs on my loader, and have much better visibility out of my cab vs the skid steer. The skidder winch is no replacement for a TJ, but it works well.

My opinion, if a guy is going to have one machine in the yard, its a 4wd tractor all the way. Better yet, if its in the cards, one of each is always ok too!

[mike_belben]

L34OO&Fransgard Winch-pt,C,end - YouTube


This fellow is doing more wood per hp than anyone ive seen with a small tractor and ive put a lot of time into making little things pull big things.   His machine isnt quite as nimble or turn on a dime as a skid steer but this package is i feel pretty comparable in hp and weight of many SS's and still quite woods maneuverable. Hes built an ideal TSI machine for woodlot management.  


You will never get a bobcat to flat skid like this because of the short wheelbase.  Whether going forward or back, theyll tip up on the toe or the heel and want to flop.  SS can pull much harder in reverse than in forward unless you have a very heavy attachment on for ballast up front.

 One may move that much wood on a forwarding trailer with a bobcat but only if it doesnt get stuck.  I can do a cord at a time on either machine with the trailer but the 2wd tractor will go where the 4wd skid steer cant in most cases.


Firewood Forwarding with a Bobcat - YouTube

[Satamax]

Well, to illustrate my thoughts. 

From 10.30 minutes, he removes a concrete slab with his tracked skid steer. 

In my opinion, this is not the tool for the job. A 5 ish ton digger. A hydraulic "hammer"  a bucket. Break the concrete in small clumps. With the hydraulic hammer. Fill the tipper with these. Easier to manage, unload, level etc. 

Buying new compact track loaders - YouTube

Over here what he did, wouldn't even happen. Most of the concrete would have rebar grid in it anyway. 

Huh, by the way, who tells him that to attach hydraulic quick couplings, he must release the pressure before.  :D 

And instead of buying toys, he'd be better to buy a pair of quick coupling for his diggers. 

Well, sorry, i like some of his videos. But he drives me mad pushing pins in and out. 

[alan gage]

I think versatility, cost, and size are the reasons skidloaders are so popular here.

With a skidloader I can lift almost anything I need to lift and the machine only weighs about 6000 pounds.

I can move logs.

I can move stacks of lumber.

I can use it to remove dirt and prepare a pad for building a new shop.

I can fit into tight spots (yard around the house)

I can move brush

I can move snow

With attachments I can dig post holes, grind stumps, set trusses, landscape my yard, etc

And I can haul it around with a common 3/4 ton truck and relatively lightweight trailer that keeps me from having to get involved with the DOT.

It's not the perfect machine for most tasks but it can get most of them done. I'm not using it to make money but rather to save time and money by doing more of my projects by myself with less manual labor. It does enough different things that I can afford to justify the purchase. I could not afford buying multiple pieces of more specialized equipment.

There are times when I need to do something the skidloader can't. Then I either hire it done or rent the equipment.

Alan

[Satamax]

Yes Alan, i understand.

Here untill the nineties, it was backhoe land. Nowadays, you barely see one. Well, there's 3 around me and only one new one, for 7 wheel loaders, 6 or 7 diggers in the 4/7 ton range One wheeled 12 tons, one tracked 16 tons. 6 telehandlers. That's within 100 yards. I'm the ugly duckling with my wheeled crane. 

One example, the diggers, there is none without the quick attach. I don't think there is a single professional, who still has a digger without a quick attach.

[mike_belben]

Comparing swiss army knives with dedicated knives is a good analogy for skid steers.  If you were stranded with only a swiss army knife and no backpack or pockets youd never curse that knife. 


But it makes an awful poor machete, filet knife or fighting knife if you have options for those. Skid steer is impressive at many things in a quiver of one.  But sorely lacking at many things in a quiver of many. 

[barbender]

Not all skid steers are created equal, either. When you start getting into the larger framed machines the digging, grading, and loading capabilities are in a different league than the small frame units. I prefer to compare my skid loader to my Leatherman😁 Those pliers make it way more handy than a Swiss army knife😊

[Walnut Beast]

Well, to illustrate my thoughts.

From 10.30 minutes, he removes a concrete slab with his tracked skid steer.

In my opinion, this is not the tool for the job. A 5 ish ton digger. A hydraulic "hammer"  a bucket. Break the concrete in small clumps. With the hydraulic hammer. Fill the tipper with these. Easier to manage, unload, level etc.

Buying new compact track loaders - YouTube

Over here what he did, wouldn't even happen. Most of the concrete would have rebar grid in it anyway.

Huh, by the way, who tells him that to attach hydraulic quick couplings, he must release the pressure before.  :D

And instead of buying toys, he'd be better to buy a pair of quick coupling for his diggers.

Well, sorry, i like some of his videos. But he drives me mad pushing pins in and out.

Wow not a very good example of a guy running a loader 😂. The concrete guys would think this guy is a real idiot 

[mike_belben]

That is definitely true barbender.  Friends large tracked case will spread a fresh triaxle faster than my dozer with a 9ft blade and probably 5k pounds more carriage weight, similar hp. 

[barbender]

That comes with trade offs too, Mike- I wonder about the longevity of the CTL machines. Will any of them still be functioning at the hours that your dozer has?

[chevytaHOE5674]

Very true lots of 1950s vintage dozers around with more hours than imaginable, doubt you will see a SS or CTL with 20k+ hours in 50+ years time.


As for the guy breaking concrete up he is using what he has. Sure a hammer on the CTL or MiniX would break it up must faster but unless your busting concrete all day long to make that attachment pencil out you use the bought and paid for grapple bucket.

Its easy to spend somebody else's money telling them how they should do something. When your the guy writing the check and making things actually make you money you often have to use what ya got even if it isn't ideal.

[mike_belben]

That comes with trade offs too, Mike- I wonder about the longevity of the CTL machines. Will any of them still be functioning at the hours that your dozer has?

I never ask a woman how old she is or a machine how many hours it has.  Are you gonna do what i ask today or give me grief is all i need to know. 
My dozer has a full reskin on the blade, top to bottom.  the blade pivots have no bushings at all.. Huge slop in there.  The blade frame has been snapped plum off and rewelded.  Its gotta be 10 to 20k hrs.  Looking at the driveway you cant tell a turd built this place. 
I got it for less than i could get now and have hardly spent anything on it.  Just keeps pushing. 

[Satamax]

As for the guy breaking concrete up he is using what he has. Sure a hammer on the CTL or MiniX would break it up must faster but unless your busting concrete all day long to make that attachment pencil out you use the bought and paid for grapple bucket.

Its easy to spend somebody else's money telling them how they should do something. When your the guy writing the check and making things actually make you money you often have to use what ya got even if it isn't ideal.

Yep sure, i totally agree. Mind you, when i see him loading the tipper, i feel uncomfortable. Check his other videos, and tell me what you think.  What i've seen him doing lately, "lifting" a roof. Without any clue of what he's doing. Center of gravity? Bracing? What's that? Or nicking soil from people, and mixing it with rocks. It is not even to salvage it. Here, if the customer hasn't asked specifically to remove the soil, and get rid of it. You leave it on the property. In a pile. 
 

[PoginyHill]

I've watched many of Camarata videos. He has an excavator hammer. I think he was simply doing that with the CTL to show his audience his recent purchase. I think recently his "business" is as much YouTube income as anything else. Part work - part entertainment. He is a very unique guy. He has used a chainsaw to cut a hole in his dash for a radio.

[DDW_OR]

my list of equipment to buy, in order

4x4 tractor with loader, 30 HP or larger
Excavator with dozer blade and thumb, 10,000 pound or larger

Tractor attachments:
trailer hitch
skidder winch
grader blade or box scraper. I have never used a box scraper but have thought of getting a Hydraulic one

Excavator attachments
Frost ripper tooth, great for removing stumps.
Grapple with Rotater
post hole auger
Jackhammer, for boulders and pounding in t-posts

[Hogdaddy]

I've used a large SS now for years to load hardwood logs. .works great, you can park the truck right next to the logs, doesn't take much room. I have grouser steel tracks for wet weather, probably could load logs in a pond with them on..  without the tracks, nearly worthless, in a wet spot. (thinking about getting a knucleboom) I Skid with a 548E skidder. 

I wouldn't even attempt to skid logs with SS, unless it was just a tree every now and then. SS definently have their place, but rough or wet ground isn't the place for them. 

[Ventryjr]

I agree with the few above. There is a large difference between 35hp skidsteers and 95hp CTL. 

[pclausen]

I use a John Deere 5085M for skidding and loading logs.