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My lastest sawmill adventure- a Kasco Saw IIB

Started by Celeriac, September 12, 2011, 03:05:50 PM

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Celeriac

I've been rather absent around here for a while, just too many other things going on in life to tinker with sawing. However, recently a very nice lady donated her late husband's mill to the church camp. Last week we loaded it up and brought it out here to the farm for little repair and maintenance, before it departs for its new home. I've notice that there isn't much traffic about Kasco mills here, so I thought I would share the adventure. So without further ado, a couple pictures.







The saw is complete and runs. Before we moved it, we fired it up and noticed a few issues that needed attention, hence the guards, etc. are off in the pictures.  The mill is set up with a 10hp single phase motor for the saw and 12vdc feed motors for the carriage and head travel.  From all appearances the electric is a home built conversion,although Kasco offers it as an option. When I talked to the company rep today he said he could only recall three factory built electric mills being sold.

As for the repairs, the hydraulic tension indicator was blown, so I have it apart to replace the o-rings. The belt tensioner pulley bearing feel dry, so I'll replace it. The biggest discovery is the bandwheel bearings have a bit of "clunk and whir" to them, so they're slated to be replaced as well. They may last for years but it seems prudent to change them when the mill is close to home and tools. 

Quick question  ???  By my calculator, the saw runs about 4600fpm. Is that a good number? One blade manufacturer mentions running 5300-5700fpm on 18" wheeled saws. 

Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

mad murdock

looks like a solid mill.  It will do the church camp well.  Soon there will be lots of building projects for young hands to get busy with!!   :) :)
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

Larry

I had one for 16 years and sawed a lot of lumber with it.  There are a few maintenance items that I might be of help on.

The hydraulic tensioner is a great little gadget.  The only thing that goes wrong is "O" rings.  Think I replaced my O rings a couple of times...a cheap fix.

Three styles of axle bearings and two sizes of shafts.  The first series of bearings used either a set screw or eccentric bearing locks...I think there was one that was a combination.  The last rendition is set screws, but you drill the shaft to lock the bearing.  The problem was the shaft was so heavy it would spin in the bearing.  The last bearing fixed that problem.  The latest shaft size is 2".  If you have to pull it apart for bearing replacement do both bearings and hope the shaft is ok.  Bearings going bad will cause intermittent broken bands.  If the mill is set up right a broken band is unusual.  Most bands died because they got too narrow from sharpening.

Power feed and up/down switches can be a problem and expensive.  I replaced my switches with drum switches from Grainger and they last for a long time.  Also wired in an override switch for reverse so I could gig back at full speed and not touch the rheostat.

Slow up can be fixed by wire brushing the acme screw and lubing with Pam...yeah the cooking stuff.  Once each day usually is enough.

The back guide bearings wear quickly.  Kasco has a new style that solve that problem but they eat up some of the throat width.  Think it was 29" and I used every bit on walnut crotch slabs so I never went with the new guides.

Only one log clamp is needed...two take extra time with no benefit.  Grind teeth on the clamp eccentric and make a longer clamping tool.

Ted is the go to guy at Kasco for problems and parts.

I always thought upping the fpm on the band would help but never tried it.  Most of the mills during the early 90's were set too run slower.

Bunch of pics in my gallery of my mill.

I listed a lot of stuff but if the mill is in good shape it will saw a lot with very little upkeep.

Probably forgot a thing or two so if ya need help hollar.





Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Celeriac

This mill only has 1-1/2" shafts, so I assume it's an earlier rendition. I don't see any signs of the shaft being loose in the bearing, but I don't have it apart yet.

I thought I read that the blade should not run against the rear guides during normal operation?  Is the "new" guide just a larger bearing?  If the existing guide prove to be problematic what about changing to something more like Cook uses?

Probably 2/3 of the blades were with the mill were broken, so that is a bit worrisome. Granted, many of them look like they were ground to a negative rake, which cannot help  :-\


Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

Larry

Normally the band does run an 1/8" in front of the bearing.  When cutting heavy, dull band, or big knot the band can move back against the bearing.

I think the new Kasco guide is similar to Cooks and the rest of them right now.  Call them up and find out for sure.  Might make it lot easier on the installation.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Celeriac

Larry,
  What was your experience with blade tracking on your Kasco?  The reason I ask is that I am currently changing the main bearings and noticed the bandwheels are dead flat, no sign of crown anywhere. Conventional wisdom says a bandwheel should be crowned...
Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

Larry

Just a guess, but I always thought the rabbet on the front of the wheel played a role.  In any case the saw tracked well.  It was very sensitive to band length...different brands would each track slightly different.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Celeriac

Well, the new bearings arrived. So I removed the idle side shaft. The tail end looked fine. Then I removed the bearing closest to the bandwheel...


Nuts!  

I need to disassemble the drive side to see if I'll be shopping for one or two pieces of steel.  The adventure continues!
Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

Larry

I've seen that before and it is called expensive.  This thread address the problem and some fixes. 

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,15696.0.html
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Celeriac

Well, it's time for the latest update in the ongoing adventure of the Kasco.   I ended up ordering a couple pieces of 1045 TGP shafting from a local steel supplier, and then machined them as needed.  The wheels are pressed on and the drive pulley is in place. My next step is to put them back in the lathe to check the run-out on the wheel rim. If needed I'll take a fine cut to true things up. I'm still debating about adding some crown...









Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

zopi

Put it together and run it...see how it tracks...hard to put the flat back if the crown doesn't work...
Some fine machine work there..
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

JP135


r.man

Always a pleasure to watch a craftsman at work.
Life is too short or my list is too long, not sure which. Dec 2014

timbuck2

I've had a Kasco since the mid 80's and have experienced about all the problems you have found, shaft didn't get scored tho.  The concentric bearings were no good.  Keep the switches dry and you eliminate that problem.   Those mills were built when they weren't afraid to put the steel to them, very rugged and durable.  The guide bearings are available off the shelf from any bearing outfit.   One good thing about Kasco is that they are so simple in design that about all the parts are easy to find.  I added quick clamps made from reverse pipe clamps, makes edging alot quicker.  Good luck.   ps don't saw into the log stops!  ha ha

Celeriac

This evening I put one assembly back in the lathe to check runout, etc.  It measured about 0.0035"-0.004", t.i.r.  Interestingly, it did not read like the wheel was off center, more that it has warped over time. I should imagine that there was some stress in the casting and that it has relieved over time. 

Since it was already in the lathe I decided to take a light pass to clean things up. The setup was less than ideal as the whole shebang is pushing the limits of the lathe. It took a couple adjustments of speed and feed to prevent tool chatter.  One odd thing that I noticed is that the rim was not faced on both sides. The side with the green arrow is just as cast and runs out about 1/16". The other side, the one with the step, is machined. Methinks I will make a slight cut on rough side so the blade has even contact as the wheel rotates. I'm probably splitting hairs at this point, but some things always make me wonder  ???

Pushing the limits.


Not a textbook setup.


Green arrow is the rough side.
Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

timbuck2

The steel on steel issue of the bandwheels has been debated to death, and at one time I considered swaping to, WM type wheels.  But I added a "lube tube"  a copper line that drips oil onto the bottom of the driver.  Doesn't take much and it keeps sawdust buildup off the bandwheels,  works good.  Every blade rides different on the bandwheels and the adj. needs to be tweeked.  An old band that has been pushed too long will crack.  You get a distinct thump sound and look out cause it will break soon.

Celeriac

I finally had a chance to get back to the mill. The band wheels have been trued up. The new bearings and shafts are installed on the mill, and I've gotten it to track when spinning it by hand. No idea how it will do under power.

The next thing on the hit list is the electrical system. When we ran the mill prior to removal it seemed to have an issue with the feed system. Today I opened up the control panel to find that the speed control rheostat is toast. Scrounging around online turned up a replacement. The one I ordered is a bit more heavy duty, and will be a close fit.

The adventure continues!

Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

Larry

Since your in the control box I'll make a suggestion for you to think about.

Normal operation is to saw the board with the rheostat in the 2 to 5 range.  Saw exists the cut and you turn up the rheostat on high to return carriage.  Turn rheostat back down and repeat. 

I added a switch to bypass the rheostat on the return that works in tandem with the direction switch.  This eliminates the constant rheostat adjustment.  I don't know if it increases the rheostat life, but it sure makes sawing faster.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Celeriac

Larry, keep the advice coming.

Having read your earlier response, I purchased couple drum switches to replace the current toggle switches. I'm all about reliability as the mill will be located a couple hours from home and my tools.  I really like the idea of bypassing on the return, and had planned to wire is that way. Now, I'm wondering if there are times that one would want a slow reverse? Maybe that is provided by "armstrong''.

Do you recall what the correct blade length is for the saw?

Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

Larry

If I wanted slow reverse I didn't flip the switch and the rheostat would be in the circuit as normal.  It is really hard to push by hand with the chain on the feed motor.

Band size is 13' 2" which is same as WM.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Celeriac

The bypass switch makes sense. I'll leave one of the original toggle switches in place and use it as the bypass.

QuoteBand size is 13' 2" which is same as WM.
Smart thinking on Kasco's part.
Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

timbuck2

I had to re-think when I got my Kasco, and it was 1994, so that makes it about 17 years ago.  Still on the original switches and reo stat.  Was sawing today, some custom half round beams (faux), basically edged slabs, love selling that junk.   I keep all the good stuff and build with it, but always have too much crap left over.  I sell bundled "odds and ends" take all for $40-60 bucks, slabs and all.   All softwood, mostly W Pine, some Spruce/Fir or Cedar, I own the stumpage and timber.   .50 cents a BF is my cut off limit.

Celeriac

And now for an update on the ongoing saga. The wiring on the saw is a bit questionable, but I went ahead with installing the new rheostat on a trial basis. I figured it would be nice to know how things worked originally, before I start messing about.

Since the weather is turning brisk, we shoveled out a spot in the shop and deposited the mill there. Flat and level, without the drive chain connected, it was tough to roll the mill carriage. That seemed a bit suspicious as it should roll pretty easily, at least so it would seem. For kick and grins, I hooked up the drive system. The drive wasn't happy either and stalled when the rheostat was set much under full speed. The first step was to pick the carriage up off the track. Kerboing! The bottom sprang in a good 1/2". The wheels didn't seem to be rolling real well either, in spite of fresh grease. Further inspection revealed that the axle pins are we worn. Judging by the wear pattern, the excessive side force has been at work. I found some new bearings on ebay and ordered new axle pins from Kasco.



The other thing that we recently discovered is the saw could not reach its full height, as the motor hit on the frame, stopping everything at 22"-24", instead of the designed 30".
After studying it a while we decided to remove an added brace, weld some new iron to the frame, and then move the original brace. 

as it was


showing where the rub was


braces removed


new iron, ready for relocating the original brace


It may be worth mentioning that although Kasco did/does build electric saws, this saw was not electric from the factory. Hence some of the issues.
Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

stormyweatherman

good luck and God Bless!  what a great enterprise to teach and share with others!  enjoyed the photos of your machining process.  where there's wood... there's a way :P
if experience is the sum of all my mistakes, then i must know a great deal more than i realize

Celeriac

Today we finished up the iron work. After everything is assembled there is about 1/16" of taper in the frame, measured from top to bottom. Hopefully this is good enough.

Replacing the bearings and axles turned into a small adventure. Two of them fit correctly, and two were really tight. When assembled the tight wheels wouldn't turn. It turns out the axle pins were oversize by a couple thousandths. The solution was to chuck them in the lathe and sand off all the cad plating. After that the carriage rolled pretty smoothly by hand. Ten times better than before. The electric feed is still pretty cruddy in my opinion, and I'm not sure what else is to be checked or looked at. 

We dragged an old maple log out of the woods for a trial run of the mill. First impression- I wouldn't trade my Mobile Dimension for five Kasco mills.  The feed is iffy. The log clamping system is awkward and slow. And the blade tracking is questionable.  All of those opinions are obviously subject to change. On the plus side, it turned out some decent looking lumber; considering the questionable blade, junk log, and very questionable sawyer.

Quote
Band size is 13' 2" which is same as WM.
Wrong, in this case. On this mill the blade length is 12' 10", or 154".  A call to Kasco confirmed this. They said there are several different blade lengths, depending on the vintage of the mill. Apparently the saw we're working on is an early model and left the factory with 14" wheels. At some point it was upgraded to 18". They said the newer mills have a bit more space between the wheels, so that is probably where the 13' 2" length applies.

I must say that Kasco has been great to deal with when it comes to parts and questions. Called them on Tuesday to order the axle pins and they arrived Wednesday!

 
Currently learning the ins and outs of a Mobile Dimension 128.
"What's that?"
"My sawmill."
"Looks like a VW ran into an antenna tower!"

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