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I'm not a plummer

Started by Jeff, May 06, 2021, 01:41:40 PM

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Jeff

But I need some advice and recommendations. I have been fine with no water in the cabin for over two decades, but the powers that be now say we must have a shower.  This bathroom is only 5' by 5.5 feet. I'm thinking a 34 by 34 corner with curved from or neo angle front will fit okay, but what do I want for hot water?  There will be the shower and sink, and a sink in the kitchen. Thats it.  I have a near empty panel box, only a handful of circuits. An electric on demand is easy to install, as I put one in the polebarn, but it was a returned item on the discount shelf for 100 bucks. It worls good out there, but 2 small I would think for the cabin.  


Any heater recommends?   The shower has to be a kit as Pete built the door ad 24" wide.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

K-Guy


My wife and I rented a cabin with the on demand hot water, it impressed me with how well it worked for the shower. If you aren't heating it year round make sure you can drain the lines out good.

ps. I guess a tin can with holes punched in it is out of the question?  ;D
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

Jeff

Ive taken red solo cup showers up there for years and was happy. Now I am a co owner with 2 females. 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

OntarioAl

Jeff
Its not going to be cheap but you can"t beat a propane on demand.
Unlimited hot water female relatives should be very happy
Cheers
Al
Al Raman

red

www.joolca.com makes portable hot water heaters for camping 
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

gspren

  If you can find one salvaged from an RV camping trailer they are usually about 7-10 gallon and run on 120v electric or propane and are easy to drain.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Wudman

My travel trailer had a 6 gallon propane / electric.  You did not take a long hot shower.....like less than 5 minutes.  When it gave up the exact replacement was in the $700 range......too rich for my blood.  I opted for a camping shower heater to replace it.  It is propane with a D size battery for ignition.  It supplies unlimited hot water.  I even plumbed it into the house during the major ice storm we had a few months back.  An on demand electric water heater will need a 100 amp circuit.  A residential on demand propane heater will have a nice price tag.  I went the cheapest route I could.

Wud
"You may tear down statues and burn buildings but you can't kill the spirit of patriots and when they've had enough this madness will end."
Charlie Daniels
July 4, 2020 (2 days before his death)

Don P

If you go with an on demand do some research, some can be difficult to completely drain all the water from the passages which can lead to irreparable freeze damage.

I ran into the same short shower problem in the motorhome. I wasn't politely glowing at the end of the workday. Since we were always on jobsites with power available I just got a small residential tank heater. Then set everything up to drain down easily.

You've got a sawmill, bump out the bath and really be a hero? (Dad just gave me the same lecture that its time to do that on the house here)

snobdds

I put a Marey 3.1 gallon/minute, propane, battery ignition hot water on demand unit in my cabin.  I am not a plumber either, but I consulted a master plumber.  I told him I needed to be able to blow it out easily. He drew this out for me on how to plumb it.  I just used pex.  

I just hook our well feed to the cold side with a garden hose fitting and it feeds the kitchen sink, water heater, bathroom sink and shower.  The hot water comes down from the hot water heater and supplies the same fixtures.  The drain is right next to the cold water feed.  Make sure to put a bypass in right under the hot water heater to isolate it and allow for blowing out.

I now just open all the fixtures and close off the hot water heater.  I have a little adaptor that accepts a air hose that screws onto the cold water input.  All the water is blown out the fixtures and any water in the line comes out the hot side.  The hot water heater has a drain that you unscrew and it drains out.  I lower the air compressor to 30psi and open up the bypass and blow out the heater.  It takes 3 minutes tops.  

Here is a little diagram.

snobdds


Old Greenhorn

Jeff, I am a little confused. What do you have for a water supply? A well? powered by electric? Or is there another source? Are there any water fixtures in the cabin now?
 What would be your thoughts on a wood fired water heater outside such as a stove with a coil or some such arrangement? I suppose solar hot water is too pricey, unless you rig something up as a home brew.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

maple flats

Jeff, In my sugarhouse I use a tankless water heater that heats up to 3 gpm at any temperature you want up to about 105, if you throttle it down on GPM, it gets even hotter. The one I use is an import. I'll give you a link, you can delete the link if you want, after you check it out.
Happybuy Tankless Water Heater Propane 12L Propane Water Heater 3.2GPM 24 KW Propane Tankless WaterHeater Stainless Steel on Demand Water Heater Propane Fit for Home Outdoor RV Use - - Amazon.com
Mine is very much like this, every time I search for them I find different ones.They all seem to be made in China, but they do work. I've found if you set it up feeding cold water in the bottom and hot out that way (connections are all on the bottom, it's super easy to drain it so freezing won't be a problem. In my sugarhouse I use a small diaphragm pump, mine is 115V, but there are lots of 12V ones, (used in RV's). I just hook the pump to a clean water source, turn the pump on and Hot water. When done, (my sugarhouse is not heated) I just drain the cold in line, the hot out and it's ready to take the cold. It is propane fired, not intended for indoors, but if you vent it you will be fine. In the sugarhouse I just open the cupola and mine is set up mounted on the wall directly over the sink.
The pump I use I got from Northern Equipment, but those little pumps are available in many places. They come with a shower hose and spray wand.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Magicman

I chose to go this route:  LINK

Get the 13kw model.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Mooseherder

We have a 20 gallon hot water tank that runs on 110 at the cabin.
Works good.  Lowes carries them.

scsmith42

Jeff, I would stay away from electric on demand. Go with either a propane tankless or an standard electric water heater.

Camper sized units are probably not going to be a big hit with your cabin partners....
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Ed_K

 I have an on demand propane/elec hot water heater $2800. :o and hate it. The shower goes hot to cold an back to hot every time the well pump cycles. I have it set at 124° just to get hot water to the kitchen sink. It takes 30 to 45 seconds to just get warm water to any of the faucets  >:(.
Ed K

aigheadish

I'm going to follow along with this topic. My wife has wanted an outdoor shower forever and we have a spot in a patch of bamboo, next to the garage, that would make for a perfect shower. I'm trying to decide if I want to dig through concrete and run a line from my basement under the garage floor and outside, or get a small water heater and only have to punch a hole through a wall and dig through dirt to run a line and hang the heater in the garage... It seems to make sense, in my world, to dig through concrete so I don't need to worry about another heater but we'll see. 
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

Jeff

We have a well, with a well house about 40 feet from the cabin. It has never been piped in.  My plan is NOT to make this a 4 season water supply. My reasons for wanting to go electric tankless are the same as magicmans. Propane is much more expensive in the u.p. and it may get a lot worse.  I am also limited on space. The cabin is only 20 by 30, although there is an upstairs that is never utilized due to access. A pull down ladder that nobody likes going up.  There should have been stairs, but there isnt.

What I really need is a Forestry Forum construction party with a real carpenter! Tammy's idea is to eliminate our bedroom and make it a stair/utility room and put our roo. Upstairs. Tammy only gets up once a night. In the morning. ME? This idea requires more plumbing.

We came home yesterday after 3 days of work. I tore the little bathtub out to make room for a 32" durastall shower.  I was going to start trenching from the well, but when I got up there, out of the blue I develop severe nerve pain in a back molar. I now have not eaten or drank anything but temped water for 3 days. Emergency dentist visits dont exist in our governor's state. I finally get in noon today.  Im a wreck.  So  no trench. Im going to bury scedualed 80 pvc and run my water line through 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

samandothers

Hope you get relief from the tooth.  

The changes sure sound like they will improve your comfort and usability of the cabin.

Good luck on both accounts!

Jeff

And as you can see im not right. I was trying to post this in my plummer topic. Ill try to fix. Come on noon.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Magicman

Yup I was wondering about it and realized that you posted to the link that I shared.  smiley_dizzy
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

samandothers

I saw the post in MM's thread before seeing this one.

I would not rule out the RV water heater and a diaphragm pump.  We have stayed in a camper for 15 or so years when we visit our land in Va.  It has a LP/electric water heater and a 12V pump.  I haul water from a spring and we use a generator for power.  The showering is a different process than we use at home.   We will use the LP or electric if the generator is running to heat the water.  We will wet down turn off water, then soap up and then rinse.  By not running water the whole time we don't run out of hot water.  

In winter when we leave we drain the water heater, bypass it, drain the water lines and pump in RV antifreeze.  This works for us. We do avoid going there if the temps will get below 27 or 28 F as the camper water line near freshwater tank will freeze and then I get under it with a hair dryer to thaw.  Most of the time we don't go to the property if that is a possibility.  However, we are building at the site now and I do look forward to not having to haul water, run generator, drain lines, pump antifreeze and can visit when below 27 F!

maple flats

A little tankless like I referenced is electronic (2 D cell batteries) ignition. I've been on the same set of alkaline batteries for 2 years. I have several things in the sugarhouse on propane, so I really have no idea how much it uses for hot water. In my sugarhouse I have a wall furnace just to heat 1 tiny storage room (under 20SF), a weed burner torch to light the evaporator, a 2'x6' finisher to heat syrup before I filter and bottle it and then the water heater. All of that runs about $140/year. It's all on a small bulk tank. The water heater would run a long time on just a 20# tank.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Hilltop366

I started off with heating my H/W with a wood boiler only but after 5 years I got tired of keeping a  small fire all year so I added a 110v 20 gal water heater on a sturdy shelf above my pressure tank. It added $50 per month on my power bill.

Because I was using a mixing valve for the wood boiler I was able to increase the W/H temperature to increase it's capacity and still have 120° water temp. Without the mixing valve it would not be great if hot water is needed often, as it is sometimes you have to wait a bit for another shower. A regular 40 gal electric would be better.

In the meantime at the camp (no  electricity) we have a camping solar water heater shower bag, the sun does not usually corporate so we just fill it ½ with cold water and ½ with hot water from the kettle on the stove.


Jeff

That is another reason for a lean towards electric on demand. We are there sporadically. Sometimes a month goes by and when we are there is is usually for a couple days, although gas prices and Tammy's retirement may allow longer visits now. (My record was a month bear hunting in 2010.) That means a tank heater either runs all the time, or you have to wait for it to heat once you get there. The tub that was in there worked well for red solo cup showers. Womenfolk dont like those.   Have a 5 gallon pail of well water in the tub, heat up a pot of hot water on the stove and pour it into make it shower temp. stand in the tub and use the solo cup to dip and bathe. 5 gallons will make two showers.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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