Choosing a saw to set -up with a bowbar

[Ax- man]

Hello all, first thread on this site.

I have been doing searches on cutting with bowbars lately. This site has yielded the most useful information on bowbars. I have gone through the archives and have read just about all the threads on the subject.

Thanks Tom (the administrator) for all those links and personal comments about bowsaw cutting. The information was priceless.

I have two old blue almost wore out Homelites XL's set-up with bowbars. One has a bucking bow the other has a clearing bow.For now let's just say they are my starter bow saws. I have been cutting with these two saws to get a feel for what it like to cut with a bow doing firewood and have cut a few small diameter trees down, stripped the limbs, cut up the stems ect, ect. Cutting with a bow is a whole different way of cutting but is safe as long the spike is engaged in the way it is intended to be used. Cutting with a bow is not something I would recommend to just anyone, I personally like it and the bend over save the back is definately is a plus, plus the  no pinching the bar.

I am planning to set-up some of my Sthils with some of those bows that are in Bailey's catolog. I have some saws picked out but need to know what saw is best suited to do the job for the size bowbar it is going to run. From what I have seen the 3 cu. in. saws are popular for the clearing style bow. What about the bigger bucking style bows??  What size engine is or were popular for them. There are some pictures here on the site but I have no idea what kind of saws they were using nor how big they were.

What determines which saw is best? Is it the overall length of the bar or just the end that does the cutting. Also how about oilers?? Can a saw without a manuel oiler keep the bar and chain oiled enough???  To me some of the saws I have seen with bow bars are a little on the small side considering how many extra drive links they have to power, plus the pitch of the chain.

If anyone has some information on this would sure like to hear what they have to say.

Thanks

Larry

[sawguy21]

Welcome to the forum, Larry. Good to see another power saw guy. The bow saw seems to have been more popular in the south eastern U.S. I have only seen one up close, an old Poulan,  and it did not run.

[Tom]

Most of the bows here are run on saws sized from 4 cubic inch on up.  The most popular saw was the Husky 61.  The only part of the bow or chain doing any cutting is the tip. 

The bow should be sized to the size of log it is to cut and then the appropriate engine attached.   Too small of a bow will not reach through a big log.  Too big of a bow will wear you out.  How much you can handle will determine the size of the bow and engine. Personal experience is the best judge.  

I've seen many of those blue homelites with bows on them and they do fine.  The blue homelite chugs along more like a little tractor than the modern saws, but it still works.   If they still run good, use them proudly.

Bar Oil is important and it takes a little more than a straight bar.  Manual pumps can certainly keep up and many operators with automatic pumps still wish for a manual backup to suppliment in a difficult cut.  I guess you can't get too much oil, but you sure can get to little.

Glad to hear that you are happy with a bow. I like them too.

[Ax- man]

Thank-you Tom,

That was useful and helpful information for steering me in the right direction. At least now I know what direction I need to go. Especially the part with the oilers. I had a feeling the older saws with  the manuel oiler would be better for a bow.

I think I will scale back on setting those two Sthils of mine with bows for now and just set one up and see how it goes.

Yeah, those blue Homelites do chug along I have to  admire them for what they are. It is funny though, I would see those in repair shops and swore I would stay away from them, that was years ago of course. Now I have three, two runners with the bows plus a parts saw and am on the lookout for more of them plus the red ones like I used to have and worked with. Oh well what goes around comes around I guess.

Thanks again Tom

Larry

[snowman]

My 1st official job in the woods, they handed me one of those old blue homelites with a bowbar to bump knots on the landing. I hated it! Weighed like 50 lbs it seemed like, direct drive, no clutch I hated it! Why in gods name would anyone chose to put themselves through this misery? Why not just sharpen a rock, tie it to a stick and start chopping? Go all the way back if your going as far as you are, get it over with. :D

[limbrat]

I had one a long time ago on a 056 but we didnt do much short wood and i sold it at my first chance.

[stonebroke]

What is the advantage of a bow bar?
Stonebroke

[Tom]

They are a bucking tool, stonebroke.   They will allow you to buck logs on the ground without bending over.  Used mostly for firewood and short pulpwood operations in the south, their use has been curtailed by insurance companies who don't understand the publics need to use dangerous tools like chainsaws.  There is still a place for them and I hate to think that the public will allow itself to be lead around, like a sheep with a ring in his nose, such that a good tool like this disappears totally from the workplace.

[Engineer]

I've been cutting wood since I was a teenager, and so in twenty years, I've never seen a bow bar on a saw or being used.  Seen 'em in catalogs, always have heard they were dangerous.  How does one use such a thing?

[Tom]

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=8089.msg109481#msg109481
That is one of the threads. There's a bit on the forum because we Southern boys get carried away.  We like them.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=2297.msg29324#msg29324
Here's another.  Eddy was my pulpwooder who cleaned up the small stuff around the house that I didn't want to saw. (or that I did want to saw and he found it first  :-\) :D :D
 
There was a Bow Bar site on Yahoo.  I'll  see if I can find it.
Here it is:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bowbarchainsawsgroup

It's a little specialty site started by a young fella that fell in love with bows.  Yahoo keeps trying to close the site because of lack of traffic.  I go there now and again and leave a message or picture just to help him out.  Maybe y'all can help too.  It'd be a shame to lose a little place like that  that is so specific.  'Course we try to keep info on them here at the FF too.

[dnalley]

I run a bow blade on a 266 Husky and to me it's the cat's meow.  I remember asking a question about the lack of bow saws seen nowadays back a little over a year ago, and was surprised at the people who had never seen one.  Having been around straight and bow saws most all my life my choice has almost always been a bow saw.
  Had a new neighbor move in across the road about three years ago and when the new neighbor's wife found out I had a saw, she asked if I would cut down a tree in their yard.  Husband was there and watched me cut down the tree and chop it up, then he asked me "what in the world kind of saw is that"?  He's in his fifties and from Kentucky and he was amazed---never seen a bow saw!!  That in turn amazed me!
  Husky dealer told me that nowadays with everything so mechanized, there's just not any demand for them anymore.  Just cut 'em down with machinery and haul 'em out in pole length.  Practically no more "pulpwooders" around anymore as when I was a tad younger.
  As Tom said, when you use them as they were designed to be used, they are a great workhorse.  But as with ALL chainsaws they demand respect, or they WILL get their pound of flesh!!  (Don't ask me how I know!!)   Not a novice's saw atall in my opinion, but still my preference.  Dwight

[thecfarm]

I joined to give him a helping hand.I have seen a bow bar,but never seen one in use.Somehow I know what they can be used for and how to respect them.

[Ax- man]

Update, I called Bailey's about getting a new bowbar for one of my saws. Bailey's doesn't sell them anymore. The supplier to Bailey's quit making bowbars, that is what I was told by the person on the other end of the phone. 

Larry

[Tom]

I guess I'll inquire as well.  At least we can let them know that there are still users out there.  Chainsaw operators are as much a death nell of the bow as the insurance companies.  In the process of searcing for another supplier, I have run across old threads and old forums where chainsaw guys are adamantly against the "dangerous" bows.  These are people who, by their own admission don't know what a bow is or have ever seen or used one.  They are part of the reason that insurance companies win.  It's presented is such a fashion that it makes it look like agreement with the insurance companies makes someone look knowledgeable.  Actually it's a bunch of hooey and these guys should keep their mouths shut if they don't know.

I hope that Bailey's finds another supplier and doesn't just fold up like a piece of wet bread.  Their success has been supplying what the customer wants, not just what they think the customer should have.  Here's hoping it doesn't change now.

Bow Bars are usefull tools.  They fall in a catagory of dangerous tools, but so do a lot of other instruments.

Bow Bars, used properly do not kick back any more, and maybe even less, than a straight bar.  They do keep an operator from becoming overly tired because they don't require that he bend to the ground to saw a downed log.   Bows have shields.  Use them.  Bows have spurs.  Use them.

Here's a link to a supplier: http://www.cheapchainsawparts.com/

Creating a market will help to insure that they will be available.

[Furby]

They may not be willing to tell you Tom, but if you talk to Bailey's, maybe you could ask how many they actually sell of them.

[Tom]

They might not tell me, Furby, but the industry gives in on so many tools today because of the decisions of a desk jockey. 

Their telling me how many they sell is only tellling me how good their marketing is. There is a market for tools out there that aren't available because someone decided that they knew better than everyone else.  the lumber industry is a good example.  Go to a lumber Yard and try to buy spalted lumber, crotch grain boards, and other specialty woods.  You will find that someone has determined that people shouldn't be useing those woods. It has nothing to do with the fact that there are customers out there.

It's a lot easier for a retailer to just empty his shelf than it is to keep a product for his customers.  That is why the "old timey" hardware stores are in such demand and appreciated by their customers.  You can find anything in them, and, if they don't have it, they will get it.  The new way of doing business is to discontinue those things that you find troublesome.   I like the old way of doing business better, as a customer, and will walk a mile to do business with a man who is looking out for me.

[Furby]

True, oh so true!

[sandman2234]

I have one of those blue homelights out in the garage. I made a believer out of the son of the company I worked for with it. He was having trouble with his saw, and got mad about it, went and bought the biggest Stilh they had at Carrolls Saw. It was Saturday afternoon, so choices for shopping were slim. He came back and challenged me to a race cutting a twenty inch oak log in two. With saws running, somebody said go, and I just turned that heavy monster up on its nose, while he had to work his to get it to feed thru the log. I got thru the log, turned around set it down and turned it off and was pouring a cup of water out of the cooler when he made it thru. Having just spent $500 on a saw, he was ticked that my $25 saw out cut his, especially since I had been cutting firewood with it for the previous two weeks.
  Bows have their place in the woods, and a person that is used to one can really make one earn it's keep. If you ever get a chance to run one, give it a try. Especially if it doesn't have those upper and lower guards on it(ruined a good saw with them). The little foot is a requirement for it, makes it work great.
   David from jax

[Dan_Shade]

how could the guards ruin a saw?