Making your own flour and cornmeal plus cooking with it.

[21incher]

I'm interested in grinding my own flour and cornmeal from wheat berries, beans and corn. I have seen posts from experts like DonP mixed through other threads and thought it would be fun to start a thread about the subject hoping  pros could answer questions from getting newbies started to sharing recipes using your own flour. Both successful and failures

I know it's supposed to be best when ground between stones because heat generated by other methods does affect the quality. I don't want to invest in a big expensive stone mill to start and have a lower cost Chinese mill that seems to crush the grains between textured steel plates. I figured it's a good way to get started.

I have grown zero grains or corn to start with and wondering if there are any good online sellers to get started with to buy the dent corn and wheat berries.  Also wondering what sieve size screens are best for flour, cornmeal,  and grits (yes I said the g word, my wife loves them )

Maybe Tule Peak will chime in also with his  experience of growing of the specialty corn and grinding it. Also hope others that may currently be growing grains and Corn varieties will contribute.  

Seems like commercial flours are headed towards gmo varieties that have high yields in poor conditions along with shelf life and I want to try to make a healthier product with more flavor.  I thought this may be a good way to keep this type of info in one thread about the equipment people are  using, best grains to grow, and products made using home ground flours.

[Don P]

One chapter deeper in the novel doesn't make one an expert :D.

What starts as a passing thought can morph. I got this little mill cause I really wanted the one that comes with buying a creek and waterwheel. My partner mailed me the address of one a couple days ago and its not far as the crow flies :D. Realistically, what I could catch in a pan under the mill the other night as I split it open to clean it, would feed us for a couple of weeks. The other 70 lbs I ground as it was barely loping along and shut off for most of the previous couple of days between demonstrating... I did buy a community sized mill.

Hickory cane and Hickory King are the main bread corns in the mountains. I see them in the seed catalogs, I'll put up a link when I run across them again. I think Johnny's and Fedco They look about like a PTO shaft, not many, widely spaced rows, of large kernels on a slender cob.

I'm dealing with the state right now, or waiting to. I've sent them pics and diagrams and a written description of what I'm doing. It has been long enough since anyone has done it, they don't know what or how to inspect me. I did meet the aunt and uncle of the lady that inspects gristmills in western NC, including the one where I buy grain, so hoping to get a call or email from her.

I'm sifting through a 16 mesh screen on the mill


 

I have a large colander that is about an 18 mesh screen. When I want grits, I sift the sifted cornmeal through the colander and get grits with about a 1/16" particle size. I'll dig tonight for a pic, there is a grits bolter and elevator that were made for this mill. I've also seen the sifter in my pic modified with 2 screens and outputs for meal and grits, so there's a few ways.

Do be mindful if you motorize I think that is when dust becomes an issue. I was in the middle of grinding a couple of weekends ago. A storm blew up, I kept rolling the door further and further down and then had to shut down and sit there with the rain pouring down. With the humidity that fine dust stuck well to everything where it is easier to blow it out usually... from my vast experience of maybe 500 lbs :D

I'm only going to grind corn on this mill to avoid cross contamination. If it were only personal use it can grind any dry free flowing grain. The biggest contaminants thus far has been cob tips and buckwheat, which, once you've grown buckwheat, you'll have it.

Here's the grits bolter for my mill. It's a rotating hexagonal culvert. The meal drops in from the drag chain elevator onto the fine screen dropping meal out of the first spout. Then fine grits and finally coarse grits, which I think I remember from them is a 14 count mesh.



 



I was the good husband today and made cornbread while she was at work and I at home. With simple things there is no hiding skill, or lack thereof  :D.

[SwampDonkey]

They have a mill locally here in Speerville. They do spelt, corn meal, buckwheat flour, whole wheat, unbleached white, oatmeal. Their corn meal is more of a cereal grind, not fine corn meal for baking unless you cook it. I use their spelt and buckwheat for my pancakes, half and half and baking powder in it. The spelt is not that great for raised bread, it makes it heavy. Great in muffins though. I've not tried their regular flour. These niche flours are pricier than the mainstay flours like Robin Hood and the store brands. Costs 4 x times as much per lb. I'm not sure I'm sold on the cost/benefits. :D

[21incher]

Wow, that is a beautiful mill. The one I am getting is just basically a 1 hp motor with 2 textured plates that supposedly crush the grains. The distance between the plates is adjustable to control the grind. A very high speed grind that probably will have to be run outside  because of dust.

To get started I ordered non gmo organic dent corn, white wheat berries,  and red winter wheat berries from Amazon.  Also have some dried garbanzo beans, red beans, and lentils to try. Looking for a local supplier for other items. This mill doesn't hold volume so should be easy to clean with a little compressed air. I will soon find out.

My wife has some larger mesh screens and I just ordered a 40 and 60 mesh that seem to be popular for flours. The machine is rated for a 40 to 200 mesh grind so not sure about the coarser grits until  I try. Love what you are doing Don. Your postings inspired me to give it a try at my cup at a time level.

SwampDonkey do you have any good books about baking and making items from home ground grain that you would recommend?  My wife makes great breads and cakes from the king Arthur type flour but we understand everything changes and it's not just a simple swap in existing recipes. 

Thanks everyone hope Tule Peak will kick in with information on how his crop of corn turns out and what grinder he gets also.

[Don P]

With a hand quern in ancient times it might take someone up to 4 hours to grind enough meal for the household for that day. The older methods even longer. We have advanced to the point where we are incapable of grinding the most long term storage food at the local level for the first time in recorded history. We cannot actually make our daily bread. Our Emergency Management guy visited with me for a little bit while I was at the fair and he saw it immediately. That little red mill was in every community back in the day. An 8" Meadows is a nice self contained mill using the same stones. They run ~$2700 and are capable of up to 50 lbs/hr so still a pretty serious thing and it would need a healthy closet for it and gear. I wonder if the little brewers roller mills can do anything for flour.

The water powered mills here went from stone to steel roller mills around WWI @rusticretreater will know those better. They were not really high speed. There was a tachometer installed in the mill when the rollers were installed that had the sweet spot highlighted on the dial and an overspeed bell if it started to run away.

That stand of 3 rollers was capable of 6 "breaks" and after each break the meal went up to the sifter with many screens. product left the finest, the other screens decided which set of rollers the flour was going to chute to for its next break.


 

and from there to the sifter to sort and redirect back to the appropriate roller.


 

That was making the most light fluffy modern flour possible per bushel, that is what the upgrades were about, chasing our taste for tasty cakes. Transportation became cheaper and there were cheaper grain producing regions and scales. The margin finally squeezed them out.

Anyway, I wonder if there is a small roller mill?  You could dial it progressively finer and hand screen through stacking screens to keep it moving along.

[rusticretreater]

My mill possesses two Bernard & Lees Roller Plants installed somewhere around 1900 and powered by the water wheel.  Another smaller roller mill about 10 miles away was powered by steam.

[tule peak timber]

I'm new at this, so I've been asking a lot of questions and reading for months about milling of corn, specifically for polenta. I have not been able to make a decision on a small grinder for kitchen use, but I'm tending towards the Country Living mill with a motor at a price of $1100. It's just the two of us and we will  be grinding primarily corn but possibly some other grains as well. I'm already into this project (growing the corn, buying a schiller, drying storage bags, etc.) and don't have any results yet. I made a decision yesterday to buy a cheap cast iron corn grinder from Amazon for $47 to see if my corn is all that it's touted to be. If we grind up a little bit, boil it and try some recipes to include breads, traditional fried polenta, corn cakes and a dessert called "Atole de elote", to which I was introduced in Guatemala, we'll go further with a high quality grinder for the kitchen.

A bit on the corn; from reading I selected Floriani because it's supposed to be the best polenta corn. It has an interesting history of being a native heirloom corn from North America that was taken to Italy many years ago and is grown specifically, selectively for polenta making. From reading, I've learned it has a very high protein content compared to other corns, superior flavour and a light pink tint to the meal.

From personal observation, it grows like any other corn. The ears are slightly smaller and I'm getting one to two ears/stalk. The plants are tall, 8-11', with a weaker, brittle root structure compared to a hybrid corn. This means that they blow over and snap off when hit with gusts of wind; such as from a rain storm. I should be harvesting and drying the ears I would say by next month and will be able to calculate yield per 25' row. I did spray at first silk with BT and calcium so my fill in is pretty good and I have no worms. 

Hopefully the stuff is good tasting enough to warrant going ahead ordering more kelp, rock dust, shell dust, fish meal, cotton seed meal and a great deal of compost to add to the garden this winter and push on with developing this corn for the dinner table once or twice a week, year round. My goal is to have a wholesome starch besides wheat, rice, and potatoes. My wife and I are pretty healthy eating out of the garden and the Gulf of Alaska and this is something I would like to further. 

[Don P]

Well, that was timely. I came up for lunch and had mail;
Roberson Mill of Floyd County, Virginia

I know both historians in this article. Ricky took me through the water mill we worked on and explained how everything worked. Ricky also walked every creek in Floyd county and co-wrote the book on water mills there. It was his uncle is who restored my mill. Mike wrote the register paperwork for the water powered mill I worked on and for the farm museum house we worked on a couple of years ago. And its a good article despite all that.

[mudfarmer]

From personal observation, it grows like any other corn. The ears are slightly smaller and I'm getting one to two ears/stalk. The plants are tall, 8-11', with a weaker, brittle root structure compared to a hybrid corn. This means that they blow over and snap off when hit with gusts of wind; such as from a rain storm.

This has been our experience with small blocks of various dent corns as well, particularly the part about blowing over. We ended up with quite a bit (can't remember the varieties but can look up later) that I had to support with fence posts and wire because every time it rained or the wind blew it tried (or did) tip over. Maybe we should have been hilling it like potatoes? Growing in smaller blocks surrounded by shorter, sturdier corn? We will try again next year and experiment more but not growing any this year.

[reride82]

The only flour I really ground was with grandma's hand powered grinder when I was young, but I have rolled thousands of bushels for cattle feed. We would usually screen any dirty or cracked grain to avoid the discounts at the grain elevator and use the screenings to fatten a few beef. Now that I live in the mountains and have a flowing stream, you guys have my interest with a water wheel :D That, and my dad has around 80,000 bushels of high protein spring wheat in storage that he's waiting to sell when there is a premium for protein ;) Is there a market for packaging and selling wheat farm to table style? We have always just loaded the trucks and hauled it to town, but now that he's retired he might find that fun to do, especially if its at a premium :D

Levi

[21incher]

The only flour I really ground was with grandma's hand powered grinder when I was young, but I have rolled thousands of bushels for cattle feed. We would usually screen any dirty or cracked grain to avoid the discounts at the grain elevator and use the screenings to fatten a few beef. Now that I live in the mountains and have a flowing stream, you guys have my interest with a water wheel :D That, and my dad has around 80,000 bushels of high protein spring wheat in storage that he's waiting to sell when there is a premium for protein ;) Is there a market for packaging and selling wheat farm to table style? We have always just loaded the trucks and hauled it to town, but now that he's retired he might find that fun to do, especially if its at a premium :D

Levi

I just paid $18 for a 5 pound bag of white wheat listed as
Non-GMO Project Verified Hard White Wheat Berries | 100% Non-Irradiated | Kosher Parve | USA Grown | Field Traced (5 lb Burlap)
And $18 for a 5 lb bag of the same spec winter red wheat from Amazon to play with. I am guessing if he set up and sold online or at farm farm markets he could do pretty  good with people like me looking for sources. Don't know about selling ag products across state lines though.  

[WV Sawmiller]

  I know nothing about mills and grinding grains (and I can prove it!) but all the open air markets I saw in Africa had little mills with a gas powered engine like on a lawn mower. You'd buy a measure (Different size cans as the sellers did not have scales to weigh anything) and you'd take that to the miller and describe as best you could what you wanted and they'd grind it for a fee. I had some corn meal made that way. I never could communicate well enough with the miller to get him to make me some grits.

   In Guinea many of the mills made peanut butter. You'd take them parched/roasted peanuts and they'd grind it for you. That was one messy operation!

[Don P]

Big one, Happy Birthday Howard!

Any chance you have a market picture with one of the mills there, I'm guessing it is a steel burr mill like 21incher is talking about.

I need to hit some yard sales and pick up a hand cranked sheller. I think for some kids, even 70 year old ones, they would get a kick out of shelling a little and putting it through the mill. 
 

 

[21incher]

Well I found my local Amish store has the hard white wheat berries for a little over a dollar a pound and If I want a 100 pound bag the price drops some. Have some 5 gallon food grade buckets and ordered some gamma 2 lids for them. From what I found wheat berries will last years before grinding and should be used within 4 days after grinding for best results.

Grinder is another  story and I am now getting a Chinese 3000 watt grinder from the manufacturer free to try.  They want a video about it so I agreed to that and hopefully I can buy it cheap in the end if it works well. Biggest problem  is it has a 110 volt 3000 watt draw so I am going to need a special outlet. I just hope fedex doesn't toast it because it's almost a 140 pound box they are shipping.  Also it looks to be a very dusty operation and I know how dangerous flour dust is so going to have to mess with  it outside.  Apparently it can grind from coarse animal feed to fine flour at a pretty high rate so really overkill for our needs. Would love to set something up to barter grinding for things like wheat, corn and other grains in the future and maybe even convince my wife to let me have chickens.  

Hopefully my first fresh ground corn bread next week to start with.

[21incher]

The beast arrived.  Bigger then I thought it would be. 4hp motor but only 110 volts. Big dent in it but definitely wasn't caused by shipping so I guess it was a second. Beggars can't  be choosers. 
Can't believe fedex delivered a 140 pound box and my driver thought it was over the limit. Just a couple textured plates to crush the grains I guess. Also an auger to make them small enough to fit between the grinding plates. Don't know what this type of grinder is called. 50 amp breaker with a 12 gauge cord seems to be common core math.  Now the fun begins after I figure out how to wash everything and find some heavy wire.  


 

 

 

 

 

[thecfarm]

I hope it works out well for you.

[21incher]

Thanks Ray.  This is my first experiment that my wife is more excited then me. She is printing out recipes and just started a sourdough starter. My oldest granddaughter developed a gluten allergy after out great granddaughter was born and hoping to get her into alternative flours also. I am only  doing it for good corn muffins but my wife thinks it's for her ;D.

[Don P]

Cool!

I would call that a steel burr mill. I think typically a coarse to medium grind is what they are used for so it'll be interesting to see if it will do flour. They can also do wet grinding so it is the mill of choice for making corn masa from hominy for tortillas.

More like 2.5-3 hp I think from the amps.

I doubt you can get to an explosive air/fuel mix with that mill in any normal scenario, more take care of you and the ability to clean up. I felt like poo for a couple of days after the fair, I was not good about dust masking for those short grinds. Outdoors solves several problems. A friend with chickens will appreciate your experiments. Becky's chickens are my biggest fans.

 Be aware of the marketing, there is no commercial GMO wheat in the US, that is sort of in the same vein as putting "gluten free" on cornmeal. Its true but not really needed.

This was one project I thought was cool, putting a grain mill in a school
The Next Chapter for Farm to School: Milling Whole Grains in the Cafeteria | Civil Eats

[21incher]

This one says for 50 to 200 mesh flour so I think it should work. Rated for dried items only like corn, wheat, soy beans, pepper, rice, and nuts that are small. Supposed to grind once coarse then adjust and grind again for flour. I don't  see a stop on the wheel for adjusting the gap so I imagine if not careful one could easily make metal chips. Instructions stink. Supposed to grind 60 kg of corn an hour that seems like a lot. They say wet items will plug the wheels instantly and have a different version for that. Lots of learning to do. Now my wife is talking about me building a summer kitchen outside for bread making and canning. What the heck have I started? All I wanted was good corn muffins  :D.

[Don P]

You'll have some of that on these big jobs  :D

[thecfarm]

Kinda like buying a sawmill.  ;D
What have I started.

[tule peak timber]

21. Certainly a nice looking unit !

[21incher]

21. Certainly a nice looking unit !

It's overkill for our needs and hopefully it works for now. Hope your not in the path of that storm. Stay safe and batten down that corn. 

[tule peak timber]

The eye is going to be near us later today and so far the storm has been pretty mild. Thanks for thinking of us.

[21incher]

We talked about long term storage dry goods before and this is pushing my requirements  to a larger solution.  Found the Gamma 2 lids and food grade buckets are recommended for grains and Corn. They have o ring seals where they snap on the bucket and another o ring on the screw in lid. Got some put together  today. Tight fit. Got one for red wheat,  white wheat,  corn, rice, and assorted beans.