small low branches on mature trees

kelLOGg · December 23, 2009, 06:22:14 PM

I have frequently noticed good size hardwoods producing numerous small (~1/2 inch diameter) branches low to the ground and that the tree soon dies afterwards. Is this observation a good indicator of a tree that is about to die or is it just co-incidental? I have noticed it on oaks, maples gums and probably more. I want to keep an eye out on potential lumber/firewood but like to avoid cutting one that may live for many more years.
Bob

Brian Beauchamp · December 23, 2009, 07:09:39 PM

It's called epicormic branching and it is an indicator of stress...so, yes, it can mean that the tree is about to die, but it is not always the case. Epicormic branching may also occur due to sunlight suddenly reaching the lower bole of the tree from removal of surrounding trees.

kelLOGg · December 23, 2009, 08:20:37 PM

Interesting. The woodlot in which I have noticed this most recently was logged about 6 years ago suddenly exposing the lower trunk to sunlight. I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks.
Bob

LeeB · December 23, 2009, 08:49:59 PM

That would surely do it and if these trees are shade tolerant, the amount of sun they get now may be too much and thus killing them off.

Rocky_Ranger · December 23, 2009, 09:33:24 PM

I will have to humbly disagree; the epicormic branching is due to "latent buds" being exposed to sunlight. Conifers don't have latent buds, so I think there is more going on than meets the eye, what are the ages of the hardwoods? I believe if no other indicators exist then the branching is due to tree response to thinning and the sunlight activating the latent buds. Is there root damage to the trees dieing? Sun scald might be a reason, and 6 years seems about right, but there would not be very many 86 due to sun scald of the species you listed. As with the folks that posted before me - it depends..........

SwampDonkey · December 23, 2009, 09:51:40 PM

Quote from: kelLOGg on December 23, 2009, 08:20:37 PM
Interesting. The woodlot in which I have noticed this most recently was logged about 6 years ago suddenly exposing the lower trunk to sunlight. I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks.
Bob

Some species, like white birch are hit hard by sun scald by opening up the stand too much. I have also noticed some people like to leave almost suppressed or weaker co-dominant maples behind as a future crop, they just die a slow death from the top down. Both the birch and the maple will epicormic as well as they die, but increased light is the trigger. Also you can get skidding damage to the bole or roots may be injured in logging causing the crown to die back on that side of the tree.

As to species like balsam fir and white spruce they will also sprout new limbs off dormant buds if they get increased sun intensity on the bole. Happens all the time. Mostly with trees on the outer edge of the forest near a road or field or a stand that has been gutted with residual trees left sparse.

Brian Beauchamp · December 24, 2009, 02:11:52 AM

With what may I ask are you disagreeing?

Quote from: Rocky_Ranger on December 23, 2009, 09:33:24 PM
I will have to humbly disagree; the epicormic branching is due to "latent buds" being exposed to sunlight. Conifers don't have latent buds, so I think there is more going on than meets the eye, what are the ages of the hardwoods? I believe if no other indicators exist then the branching is due to tree response to thinning and the sunlight activating the latent buds. Is there root damage to the trees dieing? Sun scald might be a reason, and 6 years seems about right, but there would not be very many 86 due to sun scald of the species you listed. As with the folks that posted before me - it depends..........

Rocky_Ranger · December 24, 2009, 07:28:46 AM

Swamp, I've always been confused by that sprouting on conifers, I had a very good friend and researcher that taught me latent buds are only on hardwoods. But, sprouting on conifers are not latent - they are dormant. Seems the same thing to me, but I can see the difference (maybe?). Being in North Carolina I would think the tree deaths are something other than sun scald, seems they are not off-site (which can explain sudden tree death after opening a stand up).

Looks like I didn't disagree with anyone but myself :D

More info would help, like root damage, fire, skid trails around the roots whilst wet, etc......

SwampDonkey · December 24, 2009, 08:03:48 AM

Hardwoods have both and often the dormant buds cluster around the latent one. I've seen it in walnut and butternut lumber. In softwoods like hemlock and Sitka spruce we often found dormant bud clusters and it was a defect call when cruising timber on the BC coast. There would be a bump on the bole where the clusters were. Might only be in the sapwood, or could go in deeper. I guess they wanted us to assume the worst.

Rocky_Ranger · December 24, 2009, 09:04:49 AM

I'm often reminded of an old Native American saying, "The emptiest wagon makes the most noise". I really do practice that most of the time, it is fun to argue, though, just for the heck of it. Even if I'm arguing with myself. 8)

Texas Ranger · December 24, 2009, 09:19:19 AM

Hey, Rocky, no fear, still around, news of my demise is greatly exaggerated.

Phorester · December 24, 2009, 09:52:27 AM

He only smells dead. Especially after getting wet. ;D

We have been wondering about 'cha Don. Glad to see you're still getting around these parts.

Rocky_Ranger · December 24, 2009, 10:25:37 AM

TR, you must be busier than an environmentalist promoting Al Gore's global cooling ;). What the heck you been up to, got any rain?

Brian Beauchamp · December 24, 2009, 01:21:49 PM

Quote from: Rocky_Ranger on December 24, 2009, 07:28:46 AM
Looks like I didn't disagree with anyone but myself :D

I do that all the time, RR. :D

Clark · December 29, 2009, 09:19:02 PM

Quote from: Rocky_Ranger on December 24, 2009, 09:04:49 AM
I'm often reminded of an old Native American saying, "The emptiest wagon makes the most noise".

I like that saying but it must have been from the Indians that didn't use a travois?

More seriously this is an interesting, if primarily academic, debate.

Back to the OP, it sounds like epicormic branching to me also, from what it may arise I won't venture guess at this point!

Clark

Rocky_Ranger · December 29, 2009, 09:26:58 PM

An old friend of mine told me that one, that and "that brave is a contrarian because he rides into camp backwards". Unfortunately, my friend was not as smart as I thought - I was watching "Little Big Man" one night and that is where that line came from. The brave that washed with dirt and dried with water, said yes for no and no for yes, rode his horse backwards etc. - still funny, I don't care who ya are...........