Homesteader Income Streams?

[SwampDonkey]

What about emigrants?  8) ;D

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

I will probably throw grapes on the potential list.  I need to do more research on growing them and talk to people since that is something that I don't have a lot of knowledge in.  I do know that to make around 60 gallons or 1 barrel of wine it takes about 1 ton of grapes and depending on spacing, variety, soil, etc. etc. you could get anywhere from 1 to 2 tons per acre all the way to around 8 or 9 tons.....and infrastructure costs can vary depending on the variety and quality you want to grow.

The wine area I am in is known for their "Ice Wines" which are different that "Iced Wines" both are much sweeter but the big difference is when the grapes are picked and how they are processed.  "Iced Wine" grapes are picked as normal and are then frozen before processed.  For true "Ice Wine" the grapes are left on the vine to freeze completely outside naturally and begin to breakdown on their own and then they are picked by hand in those same freezing temperatures.

Ha-ha.....I don't even drink much anymore but I used to love the sweet Ice Wines and by no means am I am expert, you just pick some of this stuff up growing up in the area, 

[Corley5]

I've jumped into the grape growing business in a fairly big way with cold hardy varieties from the U. of Minn. that are suited to my area.  We've got 3,500 or so vines in the ground now from one to 4 years old and have another 1,200 or so to be delivered the first of May.  We hope to make some $$$ on them someday  ;) ;D

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

Corley - how many acres do you have the 3500 vines spread over?  I have seen that depending on factors people have planted upwards of 4000 vines per acre with a very tight spacing.  With that many vines they are only asking each vine to produce 6 or 7 clusters instead of 10 to 15 clusters each for the same yield.

I would be interested in seeing pictures of your setup to compare to how things are done over here in the North East.  How many years out before you are hoping to see some decent fruit production?

After I do some thinking/reading I may start bouncing thoughts off of you  8)

[Leigh Family Farm]

If grape growing is a possibility for you, I would go volunteer at some of those wineries. Get to know them and learn from them. Particularly, see what types they need and how labor intensive it is to grow those varieties. If you know that you can grow 4 tons of grapes on an acre without a large headache, I would grow them and sell them to a winery. Making wine is difficult and if you get a bad harvest, your whole next year of sales stinks.

As an added value, ask the wineries what items they need besides grapes. Citrus? Fruits? Spices? Barrells? Because of the farm-to-table craze recently, I would offer to the wineries a chance to market a 50-mile bottle of wine where everything that went into the bottle was made/grown/produced within 50 miles.

[SwampDonkey]

Seems to me there has to be some research involved as suggested and hinted to by others. It's like selling wood, if you don't put up a product the market wants then your not going to sell it. Or, you can saw your own lumber all week long, all month, but you don't make nothing until it's sold. So, research  ...etc. ;)

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

Definitely a lot of research like you said.  I am definitely not going to jump into anything blindly with both feet.

My focus now is enjoying hobbies and have them pay for themselves and pay off the mortgage debt ASAP. 
It is a journey and a lifestyle that I am focused on once I am there full time.  Money is not a driving factor for me long term but staying debt free is.

[SwampDonkey]

Debt free with farming plus hobbies won't compute. :D

[Mooseherder]

I dabble with wine making a little.
The cost of the fruit juice is minimal.  The last time I checked and added up my costs it was around 1.50 of ingredients per bottle to make, then About a dollar for the empty bottle and about 20 cents for the cork.  So you have less than 3 dollars per bottle.  You could probably get that to 2 dollars per bottle with some volume buying.  The equipment for any serious volume production is substantial.  Not so much in the making process.  It's the storage process that gets costly.  Wine barrels and cold storage rooms for aging will take some Capitol.

[Corley5]

  The grapes that I've planted are spaced 6 feet a part in rows 10 feet on center.  There's approximately 800 vines per acre.  If you've already got the land the main expenditure is the vines and trellis/training system.  There's labor in pruning, training and harvesting and they do require a spray program for pests.  Grapes don't need a lot of nutrients.  A vine that's a little stressed produces better quality grapes.  Soils should be amended according to soil tests.
  Oak barrels for aging are a really big investment and have a limited life span.  Plastic food grade tanks are widely used and fairly cheap.  Stainless would be ideal.  If you want some wood flavor add chips    Wineries around here are building well insulated pole barns with climate control systems for aging.  Eventually we want to add a winery.  We'll probably just get our license and have it made at another winery and put our labels on the bottles.

[Mooseherder]

I would love to attempt what you are doing Greg.

[red]

Funny you call it Income Stream . . . Only stream around here is Outgoing

[Corley5]

I would love to attempt what you are doing Greg.

It's an adventure that we hope will someday make $$$  ;D

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

I fully expect the income stream to be more of a seasonal stream, when it rains there is some water but it quickly dries up and it is not something that you can depend on full-time    I would like to start the adventure with as much of the land paid for as possible and to control new debt as much as possible.

If I did do grapes I don't think I would get into the wine making aspect of it.  With all the wineries in my area I would rather find ways to work with them than as a competitor. 

[Corley5]

Most wineries don't look at more wineries as competition.  They look at it as more tasting rooms draw more customers for everyone     

[SwampDonkey]

I would tend to think it would be like Gregg says, not cut throat, but more like cooperation in that respect. Wouldn't doubt that there is some sort of meeting of the minds or cooperative than their are efforts to squash someone's business.

[Corley5]

Think wine trails.  The more wineries on the trail the better it is for all  8) 8)

[Corley5]

Grapes don't have to go only into wine.  American Spoon Foods in Petoskey hasn't had any grape products in their lineup until recently and even now they are very limited.  The reason being is they hadn't yet found a grape variety that made a product that lived up to their standard.  One of the first cold hardy grapes grown in this region was Valiant.  Someone took them a sample to make a small batch of jelly.  It worked very well for them.  They'll buy several tons of Valiants per year and pay more than the wineries in the area.  My first sale of grapes was to them last summer.  Thirty eight point one lbs at a dollar a lb  8) 

[Corley5]

  A winery in your area may even make wine for you in exchange for a portion of your crop.  You put your own labels on the bottle.  Several wineries in this area are putting bottles on their shelves with grapes and wine produced elsewhere until their own vines start producing.  Some of the cold hardy varieties like Marquette are coming out of Da UP.  A buddy sourced several tons from somewhere around Ironwood.  Some wineries have no intention of ever making their own wine.  To be licensed you do need minimal equipment to make wine on your premises.  If you're in an AVA (American Viticulture Area), wine produced from grapes grown own your estate can be labeled as "Estate Bottled" which brings a premium.  The neat thing about grapes and wine is your wine will be different from your neighbors even if you follow all the same procedures with the same grapes.  Subtle differences such solar aspect, even slight elevation differences, etc gives each vineyard a unique terroir    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terroir  I can't tell myself and a bottle of Boones Farm suites me just fine  8) 8)

[red oaks lumber]

how is "homesteader" differant than farmer? if you produce a "product "from the land weather for personal use or sale, your a farmer.

[SwampDonkey]

Probably something from a book or some romantic notion. ;D

[Leigh Family Farm]

how is "homesteader" differant than farmer? if you produce a "product "from the land weather for personal use or sale, your a farmer.

There isn't much difference in the true definitions of the two. Farmer is defined as someone who cultivates the land or farms. Homesteader is someone who settles on land that is exempt from certain taxes or regulations, such as the Homestead Act. In my opinion, a farmer is out to make a living growing crops or raising livestock and a homesteader is in it for the lifestyle and not focused on the making a living aspect.

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

I agree with kilgrosh as far as differences/similarities.  Right or wrong a homesteader to me is more focused on a lifestyle and trying to be as self sufficient as possible.  A farmer may focus heavily on either livestock or crops for a profit while the homesteader would do both on a smaller scale for themselves and to sell a little but are not as worried so much about profits.  I see homesteaders as diversifying into many different things but at much smaller scales when compared to a farmer.

[mesquite buckeye]

Don't start out thinking it isn't a lot of work or you will fail. Most people don't recognize opportunity when it is wearing overalls and boots.

My parents were farmers for most of their lives, but lost all but a small portion of the farm during the 1980's. Then they started growing vegetables for the farmer's market on what land they had left to up the income per acre. This produced a marginal living, but it required working from early in the morning until late at night almost every day. I'm sure they were working 60-70hrs per week throughout the growing season. Then there was no income in the winter while trying to pay for propane and electricity. Without the social security money, they would have starved.

I'm not saying don't do it. Just don't go into it thinking it is some romantic bucolic novel. It is hard work and plenty of it.

The wine thing is a high risk, high skill, high starting/operating cost operation. This is not an enterprise to enter with high hopes and no training. The farms of America are littered with failed grape/winery dreams.

If you really think the grape thing is for you, study, learn, get some training and look at the economics before you start. You can save yourself a lot of heartache that way.

Good luck.

[Jason_AliceMae Farms]

Mesquite - I completely agree about the work.  I am making sure I don't have the blinders on along the way that is part of the reason I am still working full time in Virginia since it is stable work while I slowly get things lined up on the property.  I am at times overly conservative and that is one of the reasons I started this thread to get some other ideas and not put all my eggs in one basket (  pun not intended)