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Author Topic: Firewood prices  (Read 6450 times)

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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2021, 09:18:32 AM »
Theres nothing wrong with $40 pillhead wood in the summer. I have bought it from them and brought to my friends a few times.  Its real hard to sell wood here in summer and addicts gotta eat too so it helps everyone i think. 
Isaiah 63:10

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2021, 09:23:46 AM »
I suppose that makes sense, just overload the cheap guy, get on with the process of them finally coming back to you full circle for your original asking price lol 
A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2021, 09:33:48 AM »
Theres a pallet shop near me that sells a truckload of oak and poplar cant trimmings for $50 for a full 8ft bed dumped in. When their pile is up i cant sell wood.  When its gone i get what i ask.  Thats the measuring stick.  


Fine.. Help that pile be depleted in cool weather.  Deep cold brings deeper pockets.  I wanna sell all my inventory in the deep pocket window.  Its not xold enough here for year round sales.  If youre wearing a T shirt you cant sell any so just wait.  But you need fast delivery capability to capitalize on the short duration arctic blasts. Thats why i rounded up the bits to build a big 1ton dump.  In summer i would have to deliver and stack 1 rick to make a sale.  In a cold snap i get to dictate the terms.  Three rick minimum dumped out and im gone. 

Isaiah 63:10

Offline jimbarry

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2021, 10:07:26 AM »
Quote
Just stop selling at low prices and let the weekend warriors beat each other to death with their price wars.
Exactly.

Quote
...folks that start calling around for firewood prices around thanksgiving time should pay a good premium for their stupidity, and those that 'gotta have firewood' in January should pay 60% more, if they can find a source that can dig it out of the snow.

Again, exactly this point. And there will be some that are new homeowners to the area and need wood. For those, I offer up some education on what they need to do (buy green and season themselves) if they are receptive to listening.

Quote
....let them cut split and stack a couple of cords...
We did that with a customer. Told them if they helped out stacked we'd pay them in firewood. They lasted 1 hour and told us they'd be happy to pay for it delivered.
We're now 20-30% more in selling price that everybody around us for seasoned wood. We're ok with that. We're sold out already from repeat customers and new customers (their friends and neighbours). We're up 80% over last year. Gotta say though, it took a lot of our time to get it done, so likely that is the limit for us. Actually looking at scaling back and just focusing on the kiln dried market. Will work half as much, but profit will much more. Hard to argue that math.  Some people just want dry wood delivered and put it in their house or shed with no other fuss. That's the market we are focusing on.
Jim
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #64 on: September 28, 2021, 12:14:52 PM »
in my mind the best money for me will be in eventually finding and serving only those with the pockets deep enough to have me come with a skid steer and nice crates full of perfect looking wood, put it right next to the back porch and maybe even strap some old tin over the top of the crates for them.  come back and get my crates when i drop off the next rounds.  no more advertising, just serve that handful of richies and do whatever other jobs they require.  powerwashing, tree work, fencing, pretty up the woods, flowerbeds, stone walls, etc.

there are many large parcels of land in the area paying tax bills that exceed my family income.  the richies are out there, ya just gotta have a way to meet them and have them be impressed with you when you leave. 

Isaiah 63:10

Offline jimbarry

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #65 on: September 28, 2021, 03:56:39 PM »
in my mind the best money for me will be in eventually finding and serving only those with the pockets deep enough to have me come with a skid steer and nice crates full of perfect looking wood, put it right next to the back porch and maybe even strap some old tin over the top of the crates for them.  come back and get my crates when i drop off the next rounds.  no more advertising, just serve that handful of richies ...
That's been the plan here, pick up a mini skidsteer with pallet forks that can pickup and travel with 1,000lbs. Skidsteer would have to weigh less than 2000lbs to be able to lift it aboard the truck and still carry 2 cords on crates. 

The 257B2 we have will do the job but its a beast at nearly 8000lbs.


 
Jim
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #66 on: September 28, 2021, 04:48:18 PM »
Jim if the delivery area has a concrete drive, maybe a pallet jack could be used for placement.  we get ours on surface with the loader then move on the sidewalks with a pallet jack.  or get the lumber yard style delivery truck the allows the fork lift to mount to the back and lift itself up.  all terrain.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline jimbarry

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #67 on: September 28, 2021, 04:51:29 PM »
Here's the variables I use form the spreadsheet I made for costing.



Jim
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Offline jimbarry

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2021, 04:59:46 PM »
Jim if the delivery area has a concrete drive, maybe a pallet jack could be used for placement.  we get ours on surface with the loader then move on the sidewalks with a pallet jack.  or get the lumber yard style delivery truck the allows the fork lift to mount to the back and lift itself up.  all terrain.
95% of our customers are dirt driveway/grassy area. I could fabricate a pallet fork device much like the roofing/drywall industry use to delivery shingles/hardboard and use the grapple loader on our truck  to load/offload. But it would be limited in distance offloading due to the weight, likely would only get about 10ft away from the truck. I think most customers would not want pallets of wood lining their driveway. 
So as Mike said, with a mini skid, offload it, then pick up a pallet and put it right where the customer wants it, whether it's in their garage, back yard, etc.  Though I'd rather charge a deposit for the pallet crates, like $20 each, and if a repeat purchase is make, no added fee. But if they are a distance away and don't want to reorder but want their deposit back, well, they can bring the pallets to us (borrow a truck if they have to), or we can pick it up if we are passing by the area.
Jim
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Offline jimbarry

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2021, 05:09:55 PM »
.. get the lumber yard style delivery truck the allows the fork lift to mount to the back and lift itself up.  all terrain.
This is what you are refering to I think.


 
Jim
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Offline jimbarry

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #70 on: September 28, 2021, 05:16:32 PM »
Smaller version of that, need a tilt deck though.


 
Jim
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Offline jimbarry

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #71 on: September 28, 2021, 05:29:41 PM »
in my mind the best money for me will be in eventually finding and serving only those with the pockets deep enough to have me come with a skid steer and nice crates full of perfect looking wood, put it right next to the back porch and maybe even strap some old tin over the top of the crates for them.  ...
Mike, this pallet truck might is an answer to moving pallets of firewood.

Jim
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Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2021, 05:32:15 PM »
Beat me to it.




Offline Stephen1

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2021, 08:55:47 PM »
I have discovered if you build it they will come. Charge what you need to charge to make a living. If your working and losing money, might as well go fishing or play golf.  I charge more for my sawmilling and KD than everyone around me. I am now booking for next April for portable. My yard has a 2 month backlog of logs from people that I will saw and then hopefuly KD. I bring the 1-3 logs in by Flat Bed Tow Truck. 
I used to worry about the next guy and trying to stay around thier price, but not anymore. These are my rates. Go to the other guy if you think I am to high. 
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Offline barbender

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2021, 09:56:34 PM »
Jim, if you and your wife are only paying yourselves $15/hr I'd like to hire the two of you for my operation😁
Too many irons in the fire

Offline jimbarry

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2021, 06:32:31 AM »
It's not that we want to. That's what it works out as when trying to come up with a marketable price. Throw me a dollar wage that you think would be reasonable, $20, $25 or more? I will throw it into the spreadsheet and we'll show the results.
Jim
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2021, 08:49:42 AM »
but at least you are charging for fuel and keeping track of time for loading and kiln drying and fuel cost.  so this is at least profit.  If you get on a roll and things done more efficiently, then the actual profit goes up.  I assume this is done to show costumers that you are not making a killing on their purchase.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline jimbarry

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2021, 09:26:33 AM »
but at least you are charging for fuel and keeping track of time for loading and kiln drying and fuel cost.  so this is at least profit.  If you get on a roll and things done more efficiently, then the actual profit goes up.  I assume this is done to show costumers that you are not making a killing on their purchase.
We're probably as efficient as can be. Maybe dumping the crates of firewood instead of hand loading would speed things up, but the process of dumping crates usually damages the crates in one way or another. They were not built for dumping. So where you might gain in time loading, you lose in time fixing crates. Could rebuild the crates, again, more time and material costs.

I don't show the customers those calculations per se. Now if they ask why our prices are higher, I'm certainly willing to explain to them what's involved. Like it was said earlier, if they knew what was involved to produce firewood they would likely understand more.  

I don't consider the hourly wage a profit, nor the time or fuel expense. Now, it could be consider part of Gross Revenue, but once all the operational costs are taken out, all that's left if net profit. I've always looked at transactions from a business standpoint, as if I had someone hired to do the work. There's many firewood sellers who hire out the work and simply finance the operation to obtain a profit. Capital costs, Inventory Cost, Labour, Operational Costs and Profit.

That's why one of the variables is Profit, and it's more for kiln dried since its a premium product. It's still not break even to be realistic about it all. It only would take one or two breakdowns of one of the trucks or skidsteer to wipe out profit for several years. Sure, could boost production but it would require hiring people. That gets into even more liabilities and risk management. I'd rather keep it small scale at this point.
Jim
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2021, 09:30:20 AM »
Those ride behind trucks are typically called moffets, though there are many brands.  A straight truck with moffet would be the ticket for crated deliveries.

I will probably never get to that point, but thats the thought process.  We have mild winters, cheap TVA electric and cheap natural gas from just a few miles away plus legions of pillhead firewood so boutique firewood is a very tiny demand. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Firewood prices
« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2021, 09:37:57 AM »
Jim I guess my point is some would go out and cut wood laying on the side of the road and sell a trailer load for a hundred bucks, and say I made a hundred bucks.  many in the non professional firewood think like that.  If I were buying from you, I could not argue with you making only 15 bucks an hour.  I might think about it if I saw a crate of wood for 250 dollars.  I used to buy a trailer of fresh cut dead wood 30 years ago, when I worked 18 hours a day.  It was a group of couples that did it for fun, they donated their time and all the cash went into a fund for a ski trip each year.  Heck I had fun just buying the wood from them.  they all came along and stacked it behind my house.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor


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