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Firewood prices

Started by Yosarian, March 30, 2021, 01:42:00 PM

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OH logger

Propane is around $1.30/gallon here if you prebought which most do. That makes it tough to over charge (charge what's fair) for firewood. To be honest I can't believe I can sell wood as quick as I can 
john

SwampDonkey

I did see some adds on Kijiji for $200 to $260 a cord. But nothing that cheap around here with the folks that are in the business. Some of them Kijiji adds are for stuff off someones yard or their garage. Even seen one add for cedar kindling at $10 a wheel barrel load.......what volume is that? How big is the wheel barrel? Can I bring my big wheel barrel? ;D

Had a good laugh at the add of a guy selling his pellets he bought last year. Switching to gas. Some people like that flip of a switch convenience, easier on the back and shoulders. :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

jimbarry

Quote from: stavebuyer on October 29, 2021, 07:00:28 PM
This is the year to demand what it is worth. Let it sit until it rots if it doesn't pay. ...
Couldn't agree more.

Prices you guys are selling for, is it green, seasoned logs or something else?

Prices are suppressed still here too but I am starting to see it creep up, finally. Our prices are still the highest prices in the area. Recently put up our prices to accurately reflect processing costs for time and fuel. Yard prices are $200, $260, $340 for green, seasoned, kiln dried. Delivery is extra now and those price changes weekly on Friday's. Green price going up next week.

Delivered 3 cords the other day. One in the 1ton Chev (70km round trip), the other two in the Sterling (150km round trip). $900. Before heading home we had to fill up both trucks, 5 medium size jerry cans and 2 diesel cans. Fuel came to $500. 3 cords of logs cost $400. Labour hours involved for all processing and delivery, about 20 hours. Where's the money for the labour costs? In the fuel tank. So it balances out, but just barely.

Bagged wood is where its at if you can get your foot in the door with a large retailer and have transport pick it up in the yard. City seller now offering this.



 

$10 seems to be the shelf price. 16x16x16" dimension. Works out to be $1080 for 128 cu ft.

Tacotodd

WOW, jb that's some pricey stuff when it comes to a cord. But so many people will pay for that type of convenience too. Just not anyone on here :-X
Trying harder everyday.

jimbarry

Remember though, $10 is the shelf price. Retailer typically takes 50%. So that leaves $5 for the producer. Likely producer has to deliver, so take out that cost, plus bag price, extra handling to produce and package smaller pieces. You end up with not much more to your bottom line that if you stuck with doing split cords for home heating market.

Tacotodd

I didn't think about that 50% part being as as high as it is. It "might" be time to find a different place to sell it :P Do some research, the answer to that posed option is ALWAYS out there. If not, charge the retailer more and see how he feels about a hard working person making an honest buck. Maybe they will change their mind. I wouldn't count on it, but "ya don't know if ya don't try".
Trying harder everyday.

beenthere

Taco

Thinking retailers take on extra items to sell because they have the space and they have the customer traffic who likely isn't shopping specifically for a bundle of firewood (as an example). But the customer is walking by pushing a cart and the firewood just looks warm and cozy so takes a bundle home.
Different from the customer who sees they are short on firewood for the patio firepit or fireplace and wants to find cheaper price. Hits the ads on facebook or Craigslist, etc. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

jimbarry

Quote from: Tacotodd on October 31, 2021, 08:49:29 AM
I didn't think about that 50% part being as as high as it is. It "might" be time to find a different place to sell it :P Do some research, the answer to that posed option is ALWAYS out there. If not, charge the retailer more and see how he feels about a hard working person making an honest buck. Maybe they will change their mind. I wouldn't count on it, but "ya don't know if ya don't try".
It's why I don't currently supply retail any more. We tried it but upon finessing the numbers and told the retailer we're going to need more, they opted out. No problem. I'd rather do nothing, than work for nothing, if you get what I mean. Plenty of other things to do.

GRANITEstateMP

bumped my prices up to $265 a cord (128 Cu/ft, green, processor split, delivered within 15 miles, most are within 6).  Fuel went up, bar oil went up, can't find RotellaT 15-40 but when ya do it went up, grocery bill to keep me going went up...maybe I didn't go up enough :(

In Rockingham county NH
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jimbarry

Quote from: GRANITEstateMP on October 31, 2021, 07:40:20 PM
bumped my prices up to $265 a cord (128 Cu/ft, green, processor split, delivered within 15 miles, most are within 6).  Fuel went up, bar oil went up, can't find RotellaT 15-40 but when ya do it went up, grocery bill to keep me going went up...maybe I didn't go up enough :(

In Rockingham county NH
Retail price is all relative to your costs. If you are happy with it, so be it. Otherwise, put it up again. Fuel prices go up and down every week, no reason why firewood can't do the same.

HemlockKing

Quote from: GRANITEstateMP on October 31, 2021, 07:40:20 PM
bumped my prices up to $265 a cord (128 Cu/ft, green, processor split, delivered within 15 miles, most are within 6).  Fuel went up, bar oil went up, can't find RotellaT 15-40 but when ya do it went up, grocery bill to keep me going went up...maybe I didn't go up enough :(

In Rockingham county NH
Motor oil prices went from roughly 32-50$ CDN now my 5L jug of oil is 69 + 15% tax. *DanG near a hundred dollars just for a jug of oil
A1

Old Greenhorn

Most of the guys here are creeping up their prices. The suppliers I know do firewood as a small part of their business as fill in work to get their crews working when the weather closes them in or other scheduling issues pop up. It's a side product because few can see a way to make it a full time deal. The consumers refuse the get educated. My neighbor across the road is a prime example. AN otherwise nice an intelligent guy, I have tried on several occasions to explain how the business works and how to get the best results and price for himself. Pne supplier he has used also explained it to him a few times. Very simple: Place your order in March/April for your wood to be delivered through the spring/summer as available. Some sellers offer a price break on such deals because they cut and split right into the truck and drop it off and save labor. But he never gets it and every year it's the same thing. He orders when he is out and cannot understand why it takes so long to arrive. SO this year after 3 reminders from my son (I stopped reminding him back in June) he finally ordered on 10/1, just one cord. He starts giving my son a hard time because he is having a party and his wood is not there yet even though he was told he was on the list and this is a bad time to place an order, it would take some weeks if he could get it at all. Then he says 'If it's not there by saturday, I will cancel the order and look elsewhere'.  :D My son was debating dropping him as a client after he told him off and asked me for advice. I just said 'let it play out, don't shoot yourself in the foot.' So the wood does become available on Saturday morning and gets delivered. Crisis averted, but this fella just doesn't get it. He is the amazon generation and is miffed that he can't just order firewood on his phone with 2 or 3 clicks. He seems to refuse to understand or even try.
 My friend Bill does FW and this year he is drawing the line. Anybody who wants wood now is paying $285/cord just dropped. If they want to order in late winter for the following year to be delivered as available, he will cut them a big break so that he can split right into the truck and deliver direct, then fill the truck again. Otherwise, it's $285. Almost nobody around here is so low on steady work that they are running up big dryine piles through the spring and summer, they are blowing and going on real money work and the firewood logs piles just keep growing. Spike will know  better, but there are very few full blown processors in our corner of the county that run like Barge does. The market won't support it with all the flaky buyers ordering one cord in the fall and each seeming to want different lengths. Most of these folks, in my opinion, refuse to learn that firewood is not a simple commodity like milk and bread, it is a cultural thing for those that burn and heat as part of their lifestyle for generations. The market is diluted with buyers that don't understand it. The killer for me is that they would get lower prices and better service if they just understood and worked within the market requirements, but they seem bent on changing the rules to suit their whims, which we all know will not happen.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Spike60

Good stuff Tom. There is only one processor guy I can think of that does firewood exclusively, and he's out between Ellenville and Wurtsboro. He also does most of the bagged wood that you see in the stores around here. Then there's John up in MT Tremper that only does firewood, and year round, but no processor. Some guys do a LOT of wood when they get going, but it's not the only thing they do. In a way, a lot of sellers contribute to the "wait til it's cold" mentality, because their other work is often way more profitable than firewood. As long as they are busy with those jobs, many don't want to be bothered with doing firewood. It's like a feedback loop, the sellers are busy, buyers don't want the wood early, then it all blows up in the Fall. :)

Interesting point on the cultural factor in wood burning. One change that's taking place though is fewer people are willing or capable of doing their own wood. That process is a large component of that culture for guys like us. But it's not just wood, these "new residents", can't or won't do anything for themselves.

@jimbarry Do you factor in how much product/profit is on the truck into your delivery costs? Big difference in being on the road for an hour to deliver two cords vs making the same trip for a face cord. Delivery, or pick up and delivery for my shop is an easy way to lose profitability. It really needs to be thought of as an additional fee, for an additional service, that should generate an additional profit. Not just make sure that costs are covered, because one could be doing something profitable as opposed to riding in the truck listening to the radio. In our case picking up and then returning a unit for service means we are covering that distance FOUR times. Can't do that if we aren't making money. One wood seller here has a truck that holds an honest 2 cords, and he won't deliver less than that. Says it's not worth his time to run a cord at a time, which is why he bought the truck to begin with.
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

jimbarry

Quote from: Spike60 on November 01, 2021, 08:02:28 AM
@jimbarry Do you factor in how much product/profit is on the truck into your delivery costs? Big difference in being on the road for an hour to deliver two cords vs making the same trip for a face cord. Delivery, or pick up and delivery for my shop is an easy way to lose profitability. It really needs to be thought of as an additional fee, for an additional service, that should generate an additional profit. Not just make sure that costs are covered, because one could be doing something profitable as opposed to riding in the truck listening to the radio. In our case picking up and then returning a unit for service means we are covering that distance FOUR times. Can't do that if we aren't making money. One wood seller here has a truck that holds an honest 2 cords, and he won't deliver less than that. Says it's not worth his time to run a cord at a time, which is why he bought the truck to begin with.
Profit is a separate line item in the spreadsheet for calculating prices, factors into the price of the firewood. Delivery price is a separate calculation altogether. We have two trucks, a one ton Silverado dump body that holds a true cord tossed in (or 1.5 stacked in).  The other is a Sterling Acterra 7500 with a custom made box on the dump body, it hold up to 2.5 cord tossed in or 3 cord stacked in. 
So, quantity on order determines which truck to use, each have their own expense ratio. One cord, one ton truck. 2-3 cord, Sterling truck. 
Delivery costs is a spreadsheet line item that is the sum total of:
+ rolling costs ('Rolling cost = expenses over last 12 months/ kilometres driven in same period')
+ future costs ('Future costs = oil changes, tires replacement')
+ price of fuel per litre (changes weekly, each fill up we track kms driven to monitor truck's consumption) 
+ kilometres driven (the location and back
+ how many workers required (so its a time based calculation x hourly wage, some locations require spotter or traffic control to get in and out of drop zone).
Examples of delivery cost only:
1 cord (128 cu ft) delivered 35km, delivery costs is currently $72.86.
2-3 cord  delivered 35km, delivery costs is $83.08. (We try to convince customers to purchase more than one cord if they have the room.)

OH logger

My truck holds 3 loose cords and I won't deliver less than a full load. If you want less than 3 cord you'll need to pick up at my place 
john

Spike60

This thread, alnog with the "no orders" thread are renacted every few days in the store. I'm sure it will get going today with the rain. Lotta guys stop in on rainy days to grab supplies, and since it's raining they usually tend to hang out for a while. Too bad you guys aren't closer; you'd be welcome to join us. :)

Funny how in the last couple weeks, the themes of the 2 threads have converged. Prices are definitely jumping up. $300 a cord now being the norm. $400 for truly seasond wood. There's one exception from Woodstock, (naturally), with one guy riding around with "$200 a cord" on the side of his truck. Dude thinks he's outsmarting everybody. LOL

And with it getting cold enough for people to finally decide to take their wood, those customers have created a new problem. With all of that wood going out all at once, they've sucked the systen dry faster than it can sustain itself, and it needs time to recover.  Guys have blown through their log piles faster than the loggers can resupply them.

One really large operation in Prattsville has run through an enormous pile of logs and has a sign up "No longer taking orders; waiting on log deliveries". Many guys are going the "no new customers" route. And low grade timber is still paying pretty good at the mills, which means fewer logs get sorted into the firewood pile.

The lingering question remains; how many of these folks scrambling for wood will learn and change their habits? My guess will be some, with most unable to look in the mirror and realize they are part of the problem.

If any of you guys stop in today, bring coffee. :)
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

Old Greenhorn

Quote from: Spike60 on November 12, 2021, 07:50:23 AM...

Funny how in the last couple weeks, the themes of the 2 threads have converged. Prices are definitely jumping up. $300 a cord now being the norm. $400 for truly seasond wood. There's one exception from Woodstock, (naturally), with one guy riding around with "$200 a cord" on the side of his truck. Dude thinks he's outsmarting everybody. LOL

And with it getting cold enough for people to finally decide to take their wood, those customers have created a new problem. With all of that wood going out all at once, they've sucked the systen dry faster than it can sustain itself, and it needs time to recover.  Guys have blown through their log piles faster than the loggers can resupply them.

One really large operation in Prattsville has run through an enormous pile of logs and has a sign up "No longer taking orders; waiting on log deliveries". Many guys are going the "no new customers" route. And low grade timber is still paying pretty good at the mills, which means fewer logs get sorted into the firewood pile.

The lingering question remains; how many of these folks scrambling for wood will learn and change their habits? My guess will be some, with most unable to look in the mirror and realize they are part of the problem.

If any of you guys stop in today, bring coffee. :)
That fella in in W'stock surprises me, he must be stupid hungry. That's where the big dollar deliveries go. He is outsmarting himself for sure, unless he is selling short cords of junk.
 I got a call from a land improvement client of mine yesterday who asked if I could come help him make his deadfall trees into firewood. Apparently he just bought a couple of cords from a local supplier he had been using for a few years now who bills himself as selling only the best, clean dry wood in measured cords. He charges a premium and I think is the highest in town, but it is clean and he tumbles his wood.  Well anyway, this client says the wood he got is kind of green and he wants to cut, split, and stack all his long down dead stuff. I am certain you know the supplier, he thinks he is the best around.
 Yeah, it's only gonna get worse. The guys that have wood will get that premium in the next 8 weeks or so. 
 I got too much rainy day work to do, plus a chiro visit today to stop in, but just for future reference, how do you and Warren take your coffee? The larger question is, why don't you guys have a coffee pot in the shop? I wouldn't work in a shop without one. :D ;D
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 350, 450, 562, & 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I'm the woodcutter now.
I work with wood, There is a rumor I might be a woodworker.

Tacotodd

Bob, I don't think that "I" could possibly send you coffee up there in time, IF you expect to get it TODAY :D ;D

After all, NY is quite some distance from AR.
Trying harder everyday.

KEC

I have to wonder if the guy with the sign that says $ 200.00 a "cord" is talking about a face cord (?).

Beau Woodworks

Thought I would chip in from across the pond. 

Our current prices are per loose cubic meter which is 35 cubic feet. No idea of the conversion from a stacked cord to a loose cubic meter though.

1 cube meter £120
2 cubic meters £220

That's for hardwood logs delivered. 

jmur1

When I sold my 1st loose 16" box 4'x8'x4' I was schooled by my customer that it stacked nearly exactly to 2/3 of a cord.  (It was just nicely heaping)
so that converts as 3.625 m² (actual full cord) to about 2.417 m² of stacked wood after being a loose equivalent cord.

jmur1
Easy does it

jimbarry

Quote from: Spike60 on November 12, 2021, 07:50:23 AM
... Too bad you guys aren't closer; you'd be welcome to join us. :).
Install a large flat screen tv in your store and set up a ForestryForum live streaming event :)

jimbarry

Quote from: Beau Woodworks on November 12, 2021, 01:19:25 PM
Thought I would chip in from across the pond.

Our current prices are per loose cubic meter which is 35 cubic feet. No idea of the conversion from a stacked cord to a loose cubic meter though.

1 cube meter £120
2 cubic meters £220

That's for hardwood logs delivered.
It's the same BeauWoodworks.
Regarding loose pile measuring, it depends on what a seller defines as a loose pile cord. General consensus is 180 cu ft, which converts to 5.09 cu metres. That means a loose 35.36 cu ft is equal to a loose 1 cu metre. Like you said.
A stacked 128 cu ft (one cord) converts to a stacked 3.62 cu metre. That means a stacked 35.36 cu ft is equal to a stacked 1 cu metre.

Math based on 6am calculations on 1/2 cup of coffee :)

Spike60

Tom; used to have a pot in the shop. Problem was we'd be hitting it all day. Often along with some just as unecessary snacks. Good coffee just across the road at the gas station, and it stays under control.

More landscapers than wood guys stopped in on the rainy day. Those guys are fighting a quickly closing window to get clean ups done and the weather isn't helping.

Couple "fixed amount" wood sellers stopped in. Dudes that sell their planned 30-40 cords and that's it. Both are done but still getting calls, many from people who wanted to wait. But call of the week honors have to go to one guy who got a call from his son. Kid was nudged into calling by his father in law wanting 2 cords of seasoned wood. Apparently the same 2 cords he had been talking about all summer. Kid knows the drill but he's stuck in the middle, plus he knew his Dad would get a good laugh. Best part is they are all getting together for Thanksgiving because they now share a new grand kid. And my buddy is definitely the type to get a few digs in. LOL
Husqvarna-Jonsered
Ashokan Turf and Timber
845-657-6395

brianJ

Anyone got hope that firewood prices will go up and stay up?    I bet it dont here in Syracuse since lots of dead ash still standing everywhere.  

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