$6.3 million for biofuels research

[Tom]

WASHINGTON, July 22, 2009 - U.S. Department of Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack and U.S. Department of Energy Secretary Steven Chu today announced the joint selection of awards of up to $6.3 million towards fundamental genomics-enabled research leading to the improved use of plant feedstocks for biofuel production.

Full Article

[Tom]

I just had a take home of fried fish from Captain D's.

The USDA needs to go talk to some of these little fish and hamburger joints and find out how to manage money.  On the side of my paper ice tea "glass" is  advertised a  game of some sort.  They are giving away $100,000 instantly.  Then they tell about the game being worth $4 million Dollars. 

Now, I ask you, what is the big woo about Tom Vilsack giving  6.3 million toward the improved use of plant feed-stocks for biofuel production, huh?

What am I missing here? 

What is this $3 trillion that I keep hearing bantered about?  What part of $3 trillion is $4 million?

Note from a Wikepedia article: The budget proposes to support renewable energy development with a 10-year investment of US $15 billion per year, generated from the sale of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions credits. Under the proposed cap-and-trade program, all GHG emissions credits would be auctioned off, generating an estimated $78.7 billion in additional revenue in FY 2012, steadily increasing to $83 billion by FY 2019.

The same article says something about "The debt is projected to nearly double to $20 trillion by 2015."

Now, isn't' that scary?   That's more dollars than McDonald's and Burger King have sold burgers in their entire existence.

Maybe the USDA should quit trying to increase the accessibility of Broad Band and open up a Hamburger joint.

[Fla._Deadheader]

I read an article today, that documents how much money Exxon gives to people to argue against the green house-global warming issue. It stated roughly that "Oil Companies are not responsible, and if they were, what could be done about it, and maybe if the PEOPLE would smarten up, and stop producing so much green house gas, then, money COULD be spent to correct the issue, IF it really existed."

  I won't post a link, so this thread doesn't go to the woodshed.  >:( >:( >:(

[Bill]

I've been down this road before but here goes again . . .

I got myself a diesel cause I thought it made the most sense -

you generate 100% biodiesel from algae ( just saw a peace on Nova(?) that said biodiesel costs $8 gal - I don't know where that comes from but not what I 've been hearing ). Anyways I figured that 100% biodiesel doesn't burn up any fossil fuels, pulls CO2 outa the air ( making the stuff carbon neutral and all that kinda stuff ) and gets way better mileage than gas.

Now I'm figuring that if we could buy the equip to make 10-20 gallons a week ( less than 250 gallons a quarter to stay away from Govt ( IRS and whoever else ) filing ) we could cut this global warming boondoggle and be independent of foreign oil.

Iffen you listen real close you can also find that gasoline has as many or worse pollutants as diesel ( ie like micro-particulates for gas ( which are absorbed and more toxic than ) -v- particulates for diesel , voc's for gas -v- virtually none for diesel, etc etc )

Meanwhile electric is no solution ( still need fossil fuels to run the "grid" ) till pure photovoltaic comes along - and we still have the problem of range - try driving to the mtns 300 miles away when your battery pack is only good for 250 miles in warm weather !

So what I don't get is why the Govt/greenies are beating up diesel so bad . . .

Seems we outa be jumping on it ( lessen big energy don't want us little guys stepping into their money pit  )   

???

[Toolman]

I'm convinced our govt. does'nt really want to get off foreign oil and reduce carbon emissions.  It's called environmental socialism. They need this crisis as an excuse to tax us little guys out of existence. Cap and trade will certainly set this country back in ways that will make us yearn for tne good ole days when unemployment was only 9.5%!  If read and watched numerous topics regarding the algae into diesel process. I ask, wheres all of the funding to get this going? It seems like a no-brainer. I've never seen a report that it would cost anywhere near $8 gal. Of course, the govt. does'nt believe in doing things that actually work. Common sense is'nt very common in Washington. This country could've been off foreign oil 20 yrs. ago if we really wanted to. I've lost faith on this topic. I've lost faith in our govt. running ANYTHING that actually works. I'm with FDH, I'll quit before this whole thing gets tossed in the woodshed. >:(

[DanG]

Algae seems like the best source of biofuel material to me, from what little I've seen on the subject.  I've heard, from a pretty good source, that an algae farm can produce enough on one acre of land to make 20,000 gallons of bio-diesel per year.  That's a whole lot better than the 300 gallons of ethanol you can get from an acre of corn!  The algae grows with very little input...no tillage, fertilizer or seed, and can be harvested every two weeks almost perpetually.  Now that is what you would see in the advertising if anybody was seriously trying to market the stuff.  What you don't see is a down-side, which would be the cost of converting this slime to a usable fuel.  I don't personally have a clue what is involved there, but I know DanG well that if it could be made as cheaply as petro-diesel, Exxon would be buying up land like crazy.

Toolman, I have not lost faith, at least not in our ability to replace petroleum.  When it becomes more economically feasable to use an alternative, or when there simply isn't enough oil, we will change.  Fossil fuels are still the cheapest major source of energy right now, so they will be the biggest producer until economics dictates otherwise.

[Toolman]

Well DanG, I'll try keeping the faith. But, I'm sure you can understand my frustration. I read of a company in Texas that is currently cultivating 30 acres of this stuff. It's astounding of the amount and quality of bio that they extract from this algae. I wish I could locate that article. I'm gonna do some searching for that to hopefully post. I kinda remember them selling it for $5 gal., but, like anything new, there are initial costs to start this operation. However, after the initial costs are recovered it's a very simple process with very little costs to cultivate and process.  And who knows..maybe big oil is looking at..have'nt heard or seen any evidence of it.

[DanG]

Sure I understand your frustration, I'm living it too.  I'm frustrated with the Govt and big business, but I'm even more frustrated with a society that won't get off their ass and do anything unless there is a DanG Government grant involved in it!  Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and the Wright brothers didn't depend on grants.

Speaking of grants, some of the most successful research into energy production is coming from education grants instead of energy grants.  A professor at U of Fla did some huge work in producing the enzymes for ethanol production from ag waste.  Enzymes are a major part of the expense in the process.  He brought the enzyme cost down from $12+ per gallon to under a buck, using education grants and student labor.  The students were paying to work on it, rather than being paid.  Guess who owns the patent rights to his product?  U of F, State of Fla, and the US Govt.  What if a private company had bothered to invest in the project instead?  Well, Monsanto is a good example of what can happen when a private entity uses its own money and research facilities to develop their own product.  Let your imagination take it from there... ;D

[Fla._Deadheader]

 I don't think a patent today means a lot. It is just a way for lawyers to make big fees, and then, someone hires the Chinese to break the patent, and the info is out, or bought out and stifled.

  Just look at all the stuff Chine breaks Patent rules on, and floods the world with.

  There is NO MORE Integrity left, in the world. It's ALL money.

  Look at how the CEO's of MAJOR Bankrupted Companies, have walked away with Millions and Billions, ruining lives of Investors, and Pensioners looking for HONEST ways to retire and have a decent life, after working so hard to invest in that life savings.

  I gave up following all the Algae Hype. No one was doing it, they were all Promoting the possibilities.  Same as battery Technology. Chinese are building Broken Patent protected batteries, where the USA is sitting on their hands. Now, nearly all decent batteries are made in Korea, China, and, I just read that Michigan will open a factory, sometime in the future ???

  Y'all gotta start thinking about how YOU will produce fuel and power, instead of waiting for the greedy to stuff it down yer neck.  : : :

  Another thing, Dan keeps jumping on the CORN equation. Problem is NOT how much Alcohol from a bushel of corn ITSELF; Problem IS Yeast buds can not survive in a higher Alcohol level of fluid.  Therefore, distilling the fluid and then RE introducing new yeast is a very slow higher cost of getting all the "Goody" from the mash.

[DanG]

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about how the Country and indeed the World can meet the energy needs of the future, not how one individual can skate by without having to pay. :

[Fla._Deadheader]

You're right. I lost my head, responding to this.

[bandmiller2]

If we could breed a mule with a power takeoff shaft in his rump, us millers would be free from fossle fuels.Problem too many people are making too much money with the fuel system we have now.Frank C.

[someotherguy]

If we could breed a mule with a power takeoff shaft in his rump, us millers would be free from fossle fuels.Problem too many people are making too much money with the fuel system we have now.Frank C.

I would like to buy 3 of these mules. Have any yet??