My next question in my quest to buy a mill - need input from Wood Mizer owners

Southside · February 18, 2015, 01:58:00 PM

Well, the mill search continues. Strange how small of a world it is sometimes. The vet we go to is married to a cabinet maker, he and I have talked in the past about logging and mills as he has a band mill of his own. I could not remember what he had so when I saw him I asked him if he still had his mill, to which he sarcastically asked if I wanted to buy it. When I told him I was looking to buy one he stopped dead in his tracks and had the funniest look on his face. Turns out he has had his eye on a newer / faster mill and was going to sell his. I am going to look at it Thursday but from what he described he is the second owner, still works with the original owner who upgraded, and it has not been abused at all, said it cuts straight and true. 1994 or 1995 vintage Wood Mizer LT 40 hydraulic. It does not have roller toe boards, a de-barker, or setworks.

I called Wood Mizer and they said the new style de-barker would work on this mill, just have to drill holes in the tubing for the mounting bolts. A roller toe board could be adapted to work on one but a setworks was not an option at all. The tech explained that the mounting plate for the control unit was different and the gear box for the encoder was different. Having never looked in detail at either a post or pre '97 mill I really don't have a reference to what he is talking about.

So, I guess what I am asking is are there any members who have figured out how to overcome the setworks issue? I am guessing an adapter plate similar to what one would do when mounting a non OEM engine would solve the mounting issue, but I don't understand how the encoder is being attached and what rotations it is counting. Are there alternative locations on where to mount the encoder?

Are there traditional areas on this mill to look at for wear or failure? Any input or advice is very much welcomed.

On a different note when I called Wood Mizer they could not find the owners name in their database, but at lest so far the local SWAT team has not pulled into my driveway! :D

Thanks

Ocklawahaboy · February 18, 2015, 03:23:54 PM

Woodmizer will only have a 2nd owners name if he registered when he bought the mill.

Magicman · February 18, 2015, 05:32:44 PM

There are many LT40's sawing every day that do not have any setworks. The good thing is that if you decide to buy and then "upsize" later, the LT40 will hold it's value quite nicely.

I do not know the $$ figures that you are dealing with, but have you checked the "For Sale" board here on the FF?

Chuck White · February 18, 2015, 05:51:55 PM

Good to hear you're thinking of getting a mill!

My mill is a 1995 LT40HDG2425. In other words I removed the 24hp Onan (the original engine) and replaced it with a 25hp Kohler.

The engine replacement wasn't due to engine failure, in fact the engine was running and sawing right up to the last hour before the engine swap took place, it only had 2206 hours on it.

I did the engine swap simply because I was money ahead and just decided to go ahead with it.

The only worn parts I've replaced were the engine mounting bushings and some belts.

I have a debarker (added by the 2nd owner) on my mill and I feel that the debarker is a fine investment!

As Magicman stated the LT40 will hold it's value very well.

I've had my mill since 2008 and I would not sell it for the same price I paid for it, it's worth more than that with the upkeep and improvements I've made on it.

Southside · February 18, 2015, 07:37:55 PM

Thanks Chuck,

Just trying to understand all the parameters here. What would you say a "typical" or average day production is with your mill - mind you I completely understand there is no average log, I see it every day. Just trying to evaluate how far any purchase I make will take me for the $$ I spend in the event I am able to actually make this into more of a profit generating business.

Magicman thank you, yes I have been keeping an eye on that section. If this close one is not the mill for me I will be making a trip or two based on what is there.

Thanks

Jim

Southside · February 18, 2015, 07:48:23 PM

Chuck,

Also wanted to ask what you think of the lap sider. This mill comes with one and I have an old farm house that is desperately in need of a face lift, new siding would be easier than dealing with what is on it now believe it or not.

pineywoods · February 18, 2015, 09:58:08 PM

If you can get it at a good price, I'd say go for it. It will have either an onan or a briggs and stratton powerplant. Both are out of production, but are good engines, should be good for 5000 hours or so. Engine swaps are a breeze. I swapped out the briggs on my 95 for a kawasaki, was back sawing the next day. Toe rollers would be pretty much a bolt-on option. Setworks can be a little confusing. The original was called accuset I, no longer supported. Current is accuset II, which would be difficult to retrofit to a 95. There is a third option called simpleset, not quite as sophisticated, but still nice. I would ask, do you really need setworks? The saw scale on that mill has an inch scale with fractions plus 6 more adjustable scales. As long as I use one of those 6 preset thicknesses, I can saw just as fast as with setworks, no math involved. And yes it's easy to set up to let's say, cut 5/4 boards down to a 7 inch cross tie. There's one thing I didn't like about mine, that's the SLOOOOW head up down speed. I came up with a simple fix for that. Some will bad mouth the pre-97 frame, yes the later models are beefed up a bit, but the older frames were pretty rugged to start with. I saw hardwood as big as 36 inch by 20 long and I ain't bent or broke anything yet...

Chuck White · February 18, 2015, 10:13:05 PM

SSL; On an average job, I will usually turn out 1,500-1,800 bf in a day, with a decent off-bearer.

My day of actual sawing usually starts at 8:30 and ends at 4:00-4:30.

I like the idea of having the Shingle & Lap Sider, even though I haven't used it yet!

They are running around $1,200.00 new, now!

uler3161 · February 18, 2015, 10:16:35 PM

That should be a good mill if you can get it for the right price.

I'm tempted to agree with pineywoods about not needing the setworks, but I should mention one thing... I'm pretty sure in this year of mill, you're height control is only a drum switch. Older mills had the gearbox pulley exposed so you could fine adjust, but this one probably has that all enclosed. We have a friend whose first mill was like this and he was constantly battling with going up/down to "hit his mark". Whereas on our mills, the standard operating procedure was to lower the head close to the cut, then roll the pulley with your hand to get it right on. I suppose WM changed this due to safety concerns. With practice you might could get to where you can run the height controls on this mill pretty well, but to be honest if I had to choose between an older mill with the exposed pulley versus this one, I'd choose the exposed pulley.

Frame wise, without some serious fab work you're going to miss out on being able to upgrade to a 2-plane clamp. That's the only real complaint I have about my mill.

4x4American · February 18, 2015, 10:25:57 PM

I have crossed paths with a few folks who have lt 40's without setworks. Computerized setworks are fairly recent. It would not be a deal breaker for me. The fact that you can add a mudsaw is great. Go onto the youtube, there's a video called what to look for in a used woodmizer (or something along them lines) by videos by al (I believe). Pretty sure he is a forum member here. He is the sawyer in most of the Lindas Sawmill Cinema videos from what I gather. Anyways, worth the time. You are around equipment, so you can generally see what condition it is in. You know the owner too, which is an advantage. Try to get some blades with it too, and any spare parts he might have. Good luck, and let us know!

4x4American · February 18, 2015, 10:27:27 PM

This mill is still light years ahead of some of the other mills you were looking at, no?

Magicman · February 18, 2015, 10:31:01 PM

Much depends upon the sawmill's planned usage. I would hate to think about sawing production without my Setworks and Debarker. Those plus a few more options.

Bells & whistles do much more than just make noise. ;D

pineywoods · February 18, 2015, 11:23:31 PM

The simpleset could be adapted to the older mills, but you would most likely have to change out the up-down gearbox. The gear ratio is most likely different. The transducer is an optical unit that fits on the end of the gearbox input shaft, counts revolutions. There's a cheat to stop the head on the mark. Don't try to stop on the mark. Deliberately drop a little below and then jog up, much easier. I added a couple (well actually 4) garage door springs to take some of the head weight off the up-down motor. Makes a big difference. Uler, you are right on about the 2 plane clamp. that is one very nice option. I sorta cheated. My mill WAS all manual, now has full set of pinewoods hydraulics. The turner/clamp is ALMOST as good as the wm 2 plane and doesn't require butchering the frame...

Darrel · February 19, 2015, 12:07:48 AM

I have a 1992 LT40HDG24 and I find that running the mill without set works is no big deal. There is an excellent scale on the mill that is calibrated to 4, 6, & 8 quarter. As well as a regular rule with 1/16th inch lines on it. It didn't take long for me to master the skill to hit the down leaver and then release it so it stopped exactly where I wanted it to. This was a concern I had before I bought my mill last summer, but my worries were unfounded.

WH_Conley · February 19, 2015, 12:48:43 AM

I keep a roll of masking tape around the mill. If someone wants an order of special thickness, say 1/2 inch I will put the tape on the scale and mark every 9/16 inch. Don't do any math that way.

Chuck White · February 19, 2015, 06:36:01 AM

You'll find that you can get by with what you have!

Personally, I wouldn't be without the debarker!

Southside · February 19, 2015, 07:28:57 AM

@pineywoods do you have any photos of the spring and clamp assembly you built? What is different about the single plane system?

I am quite certain the machine will not be the weak link in the chain here, I have a whole lot to learn when it comes to milling.

Dave Shepard · February 19, 2015, 11:22:40 AM

Quote from: WH_Conley on February 19, 2015, 12:48:43 AM
I keep a roll of masking tape around the mill. If someone wants an order of special thickness, say 1/2 inch I will put the tape on the scale and mark every 9/16 inch. Don't do any math that way.

Neat trick!

I learned on a '93 LT40 Manual. You can hit the mark no problem with this mill. I would drop below the mark and bump up to it. After some time on the mill, I could just about hit the mark without looking. I wouldn't be too worried about no setworks on this vintage mill.

barbender · February 19, 2015, 11:24:04 AM

If the setworks and other options are important to you, I would wait and find a mill that has them already installed. On my LT40 super, the head up/down is so fast that it is hard to land on the mark, and that costs you time. The setworks incorporate some kind of electronic braking to land on the mark, and that is the real time saver for me. If the head didn't move so fast, it wouldn't be as big of an issue.
Piney, the encoder on my original setworks is not optical, it is a sprocket driven encoder that could likely be incorporated into older mills if it was still supported. Maybe the simple set is similar?

MAI · February 19, 2015, 11:59:53 AM

I've never operated a mill but the info on this thread just keeps rolling.

pineywoods · February 19, 2015, 01:23:37 PM

Barbender, the encoder on your accuset I is a magnetic pickup driven off a sproken that rides the up-down chain. Simpleset is completely different. It's encoder is a slotted disk that fastens to the v belt pulley on the input shaft for the up-down gearbox. The pickup is optical, enclosed to keep sawdust out.

If my mill had the old flap type clamp, I would retire the clamp mechanism to the spare parts box, then replace the big springs on the turner with a hydraulic cylinder. Then you can jam the claw into the side of the log/clamp and use that for a clamp. I designed the pineywoods turner/clamp to work that way. Not quite as nice as the wm 2 plane clamp, but close. Pics, videos and drawings here

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,39860.0.html

barbender · February 19, 2015, 04:24:14 PM

Thanks for the info, Piney- I haven't gotten a chance to look at the simple set on the newer mills.

pineywoods · February 19, 2015, 07:41:39 PM

Quote from: Southside logger on February 19, 2015, 07:28:57 AM
@pineywoods do you have any photos of the spring and clamp assembly you built? What is different about the single plane system?

Here's a link to the post about the spring assist for head up....
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,27272.msg391022.html#msg391022

hunz · February 19, 2015, 10:35:27 PM

Not sure if you are married, but I am, so I thought I would share the one thing my wife has been right about....well that's up for debate. I am on my 3rd mill in 5 years, now with a lt-40 super. "I don't wan't you buying something that isn't what you need, or something you need to fix to make work the way you want it, just buy the right thing the first time" My wife has never been more right with that statement, at least that's what I have found! My problem is that I love to tinker, and make things work so to speak. I always love a challenge to fabricate, and see my idea work; this is the way I am. But..... just because it's how I am, doesn't make it the best decision. A 98+ mill would make your life a lot easier, for not much more $. Just my thoughts

Chuck White · February 19, 2015, 10:48:38 PM

Here are a couple of pics of the Pineywoods lift assist I put together.

Southside · February 20, 2015, 11:45:33 AM

Thanks for the info Chuck and Pineywoods, those are some pretty impressive mods you have done there. I don't think this 40 is the one for me, its a nice machine and has not been abused, lightly used it will probably be fine for a while, but I think it will need a little TLC if a guy put it into regular service. Pushing a pencil I am not sure I am getting the most out of my investment there, so the search, and education, continue.

What can anybody tell me about the performance and service life differences between say an older 40 and a newer 35? Is it like today's 1/2 ton pickups that are more like the 3/4 tons of the past?

terrifictimbersllc · February 20, 2015, 12:23:09 PM

Quote from: Southside logger on February 20, 2015, 11:45:33 AM

What can anybody tell me about the performance and service life differences between say an older 40 and a newer 35? Is it like today's 1/2 ton pickups that are more like the 3/4 tons of the past?

No. I'd say the comparison of any LT40 vs newer 35 (there aren't old 35's), is more like the comparison of an F250/350 vs 150, from the same year. The LT40 mast and head are more heavily built than the 35.