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Insulated shipping container or just the bare steel

Started by Tree Dan, December 04, 2018, 02:29:11 PM

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Tree Dan

My plan at this time is to use a woodmizer kd250
with a 20 foot shipping container.
Is there enough insulation in the containers for the kiln,
or should I just buy a bare bones sea can...frame the inside walls with 2x4s
and call a spray guy in to spray.

Also can the insulated containers (Used) take 150 degrees of heat?

Thanks for your input

TD

Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

Southside

An factory insulated container is the only way to go, I have one and you get stainless steel walls, aluminum flooring, superior wall insulation, and aluminum exterior - basically it is corrosion proof.  150 degrees is not a problem at all.     
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

GAB

Quote from: Tree Dan on December 04, 2018, 02:29:11 PM
My plan at this time is to use a woodmizer kd250
with a 20 foot shipping container.
Is there enough insulation in the containers for the kiln,
or should I just buy a bare bones sea can...frame the inside walls with 2x4s
and call a spray guy in to spray.

Also can the insulated containers (Used) take 150 degrees of heat?

Thanks for your input

TD
From what I've read, and been told, that set-up should be good for two to six , maybe 8 loads then you can start over, i.e. get another container salvage what you can and try again.  Tree sap or wood moisture makes for a very corrosive atmosphere which is not friendly to shipping container steel.  Depending on the species of wood, and how dry it is when loaded, will affect the life of a regular shipping container.
If you do do it please let us know what your mileage was.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

YellowHammer

What GAB and Southside is dead on.  Shipping containers are made of Corten Steel, designed to passivate in a corrosive (sea duty) environment and only rated for a six year service life.  There are ways to protect it, but its a loosing  battle, as it was designed that way.  

A true insulated reefer is an unbeatable solution made from aluminum and stainless and will last indefinitely.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

mike_belben

Why cant the interiors be lined in heavy plastic for vapor barrier and proper penetrations through the shell be utilized for venting?  

I have a 16ft factory reefer boxtruck body. its had rainwater leak in through some roof holes from before i got it.  The water would leak out of every plastic fastener cap in the ceiling interior paneling, so its not an impermeable interior shell at all.  

Sidenote, im also not pleased with the floor joist construction either.  Theyre like a dryvan, joists riveted to an aluminum side edge and no other frame rails.  A forklift destroys that flimsy edge and knocks the joists right out very easily. Itsna delicate container.  Im used to handling U haul boxes and junk campers with my forklift, all of which have steel frame rails under the joists, making a tough platform. Obviously campers are like tissue paper but uhaul made a great container. Very durable, almost as tough as a connex when it comes to shuffling them around.  I forkload mine while filled with iron all the time. Shop modules in my ever changing yard.
Praise The Lord

Southside

The poly would never stand up to lumber dings or even the forced air that is circulating within the container. On a reefer conex the walls and ceiling are stainless that are riveted to wall / ceiling studs and the exterior wall skins are riveted to the other side of those studs.  The roof is a one piece panel with no holes in it. The whole thing has a steel exterior frame holding it together, they are a lot beefier than their over the road cousins. The gross weight rating on mine is over 80K. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Tree Dan

Thanks,

Ok sounds like the bare bones shipping container is out.
I want to be able to move this kiln around...and the moving could be 100 miles or so.

I think my options are buy a insulated container, or
Build a good trailer frame, with wheels and tube style out riggers, so I can take the wheels off.
or build a frame without the wheels so it can be winched on to a truck.
Then spray the interior with 3" of foam.
Good point about going this route, is I could make this kiln a side loader...no rail cart or track :o
Its a lot of work, and time.
Maybe the insulated unit is best.
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

mike_belben

The thought of building a good one is enough to make me stick with air drying

;D
Praise The Lord

Tree Dan

Quote from: mike_belben on December 05, 2018, 11:26:07 AM
The thought of building a good one is enough to make me stick with air drying

;D
I hear yaa ;D...Its a lot of work...Lol too much.
The prices for insulated refer containers in Ontario are $12000 ... :o
Im still searching for a used refer container.
If I can get one for around 6gs I will take it
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

YellowHammer

Reefer DH units can be moved, but it takes a flatbed winch truck.  I built mine next the workshop and then when I was about done, I called the trucking company and they moved and placed it for me on.   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

scsmith42

i built my first kiln starting in late 2003 and put it in service in early 2004.  It's a Nyle L200 in an uninsulated shipping container.

After 15 years and almost continuous service for the last 10 years, it's starting to corrode through in multiple locations.

A reefer or pre-insulated container is the only way to go if you want to use a container sized kiln.  
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Tree Dan

Thanks guys,
Theres a insulated van body for sale...any experience with these?

Im not sure what the interior is made of, I hope its stainless.

Update its not stainless....Im still searching
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

farmfromkansas

I have been working at setting up a dryer in an old reefer trailer. Have the track set up, but have still to build the bridge between the trailer and the track, but gaining. Now, having read this thread, found I bought a trailer with fiberglass sheets for liner. Is it in danger of burning at 150 degrees or what is the danger? The box is very well built, has a one piece top, and not at all excited about drilling holes in it to fasten the baffle, as there is a puddle on top at the rear, as I have the box very flat, and a little water sits up there. Can't tell where the framing members are from the inside, or would just screw to those.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

georgecoolguy

I know of a local woodworker near me who has been kiln drying in a non-insulated shipping container for near 20 years. From what I gather from his set up there are two things that makes his kiln unit stand the test of time.

#1 He paints (Sprays using an airless sprayer) the exterior of his container using a high-quality exterior paint, it almost looks and feels like rocker guard. If you look at the unit you would not be able to tell that it is 20 years old. He re-applies paint every 5 years, which he says is overkill.

#2 The entire interior is lined with a layer of foil faced 2 inch thick foam insulation, the foam is then covered with marine grade plywood. The plywood was purpose installed with 3/8'' gaps to allow for a very heavy application of heat/moisture resistant caulking, which he apparently got from a boat building supply company. I tried to get more info from him on the caulking but he did not have any... He did say that he reapplies/repairs the joints as necessary, usually once a year he says. After all that he applied a very thick layer of roofing compound, he said he applied it by hand with gloves on (no brush or roller, quite literally by hand) so you can imagine how thick the layer is.

The entire unit is blocked up off the ground 6-8 inches, and the bottom of the unit was covered with the same roofing compound to protect from moisture.

From what I can see this unit has no signs of corrosion and I could not see any noticeable rust.

After setting up and going through every page of the nyle l200 manual and instructions on building their kiln chamber design, it is very similar to what this woodworker has done... They reccommend the roofing compound, foil faced insulation and caulking at joints.

George




Tree Dan

Quote from: farmfromkansas on December 09, 2018, 09:41:08 AM
I have been working at setting up a dryer in an old reefer trailer. Have the track set up, but have still to build the bridge between the trailer and the track, but gaining. Now, having read this thread, found I bought a trailer with fiberglass sheets for liner. Is it in danger of burning at 150 degrees or what is the danger? The box is very well built, has a one piece top, and not at all excited about drilling holes in it to fasten the baffle, as there is a puddle on top at the rear, as I have the box very flat, and a little water sits up there. Can't tell where the framing members are from the inside, or would just screw to those.

I did some searching and found that some reefer units are lined with Kemlite, and its only good to 130 degrees.
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

florida

I bought a 40' reefer trailer at an auction once for $100.00. It was super insulated with corrugated aluminum flooring and fiberglass walls.  It had been set up to haul carcasses so had tracks on the ceiling to hang the carcasses on.  Even here in south Florida it stayed cool all day under a big live oak. I used it for storage and loved it. When we moved I couldn't find anyone to move it so gave it away. I sure wish I still had it. 
General contractor and carpenter for 50 years.
Retired now!

K-Guy

If you are looking at using an insulated reefer trailer but don't know if the lining can take the heat. Find the manufacturer's plate, get the model or serial number and call them and ask

1) What is the R value of the insulation? R-20 or better recommended

2) Is the floor insulated? If not you can set it on the rigid blue or pink foam insulation for a thermal barrier to the ground.

3) Can the interior take temperatures up to 160°F if using a Nyle kiln ( max temp for any other)
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

farmfromkansas

My trailer box is a Timpte mfg 12 87, called Timpte, they said they had sold that part of their company to Great Dane, and suggested I call them,so tried, but somehow my phone lost connection twice, finally got a machine where I left a message asking for info.
Most everything I enjoy doing turns out to be work

doc henderson

I do not have a kiln per say.  i do air dry under cover and then put in a 8 x 20 storage container.  I monitor temp and humidity and try to mimic my heated and air-conditioned shop.  I have one that doors open all along the side so I can load with skid loader and forks.  I have a dehumidifier to run when humidity is up (inside container) smiley_beertoast, but rarely needed unless new wood put in.  My 8 x 20 has doors all down one side and the end, so heavy frame,  Cost un-insulated 5k.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Bruno of NH

I think most refer trailers have fiberglass reinforced panels as liner.
I don't think it would take 160° heat cycles that well.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

K-Guy

Bruno
Some will and some won't, that's why checking with manufacturer is important. puck-smiley
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

OutlawB52

Would lining a fiberglass refer with 1/2 inch foil faced insulation panels correct this problem ?

K-Guy


I would remove them as I don't know how their breaking down will affect things. The other problem may also be that the insulation will probably break down in the heat also. 

Remember that most insulated trailers are for cooling not heating, so they don't use high heat rated insulation.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

JoshNZ

We get non operational reefers come up for sale here quite often, you could try doing a search for an NOR container. They're about $6.5k NZ at the moment ~4k US.

The refrigeration gear is crapped out or something's gone wrong with it that is more expensive than the container itself to repair.

Good luck!

Al_Smith

As far as a shipping box which in essence is just about like large tin can .The Corten steel with no paint will last over 20 years .I paid an extra $100 for my 40 footer which is "cargo ready " around $2400 delivered .Which means the seals are in tip top shape as the floor etc . With a double coat of Rust-Oleum hunter green paint  it most likely will out last me .Although I don't dry lumber I have no doubt it could work with a dehumidifier .I just have a box fan in mine .The sea vents work good .These things will float in the Pacific Ocean for 30 or so days full of cell phones etc .

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