cougars in Michigan

[johnday]

Anyone been heaaring about the cougar sitings around the state? I picked up a pamphlet from the Sherrifs Dept animal control division that informed the public of the cats. Animal control and their chief swore these cats are all over. Does anyone know other than the DNR of info. Acouple years ago over in Harrisville I bought breakfast for some political wannabe and the subject turned to the DNR. According to him there was a release of wolves in Presque Isle county. Does anyone have info on either of things?
 thanks  johnday

[Jeff]

johnday, read this post way back to 2000

https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=hunting;action=display;num=27;start=18#4

[Furby]

The wolves are being reintroduced around the state.
Right now there are several packs around Michigan.

Cougars are very common, most people don't see them because the cats almost always know the people are there and stay out of sight.

Years ago the people that live right behind my parents bought a pet cougar. Fixed up a real nice, room sized pen made out of chain link in the house for it. The son would take it outside to play. Beautiful creature! It was still a young one, but as big as our Golden at the time. Some of the other neighbors found out and started causeing trouble. Ended up in the hands of the township which said it had to go. I guess they moved it North aways to a relatives place.

Next township over there was someone that didn't live there but used the property to house his collection of big cats.
Got kicked out too I belive.
Anyways, people buy animals like these for pets and then when they get bigger and are too much to handle or get kicked out, as in these cases, are sometimes let go into the wild. So even if the cats aren't native wild cats, I totally belive there are wild cougars in Michigan.

[Murf]

It wouldn't surprise me.

We were hunting (OK, nice walks in the log-over country side with a dog and a gun) some land near Sault Ste. Marie and the mud along the roads were covered in big cat prints, some of them must have been fresh because Deputy Dawg put his nose to one and got REAL close to me and stayed that way for some time.

If there are very many north of the river, pretty good chance there are some in the UP at least.

[johnday]

Thanks guys; In the last week down in southern Wayne county, in Sumpter township, there was a cougar sighting. Ofcourse in that part of the state it scared people so badly that at one of the elementary schools recess was being held inside! I've long heard reports of cougars in the LP but never saw one. There have been many reports in Monroe county of them . Our friends, I use that term loosley in the DNR keep trying to pass them off as feral domestic cats. But I know too many outdoor types that have seen tracks at the least, and some have even been lucky enough to see what made them. At the Animal control division of Monroe County Sheriff Dept, I was told that some of the officers had seen them. Yep, I'm sure there here and glad of it. After all, the ARE a native species of Michigan.

Next, the wolf. No better critter has ever been built. My den walls are lined with nothing but wolf photos and paintings that actually look like wolves.[It's hard to find a painting like that]. I know only of the two packs on Isle Royale. I spent some time there but "all" I saw were moose, up close and real personal. My wife even ran head first into one on a trail. Never got to see the wolves tho. Again, another native that I myself would like to have more of.

Furby, where are the wolf packs you know of? Don't worry, I would never consider hurting one of them.

[Jeff]

I have very mixed feelings about the wolves. They are now established near our family's cabin in the east end of the U.P. I have seen two things that I personally attribute to the wolfs and do not like. No fawns with our does for two years running, and have you ever saw a group of deer come OUT of a cedar swamp in mid winter with the temperatures in the teens to lie on a frozen pond? Tell me, what could be so frightening in that swamp to force the deer from the life saving thermal cover to spend the nights on the ice?

[Buzz-sawyer]

You got it Jeff.
I would be suprised if lions and wolves were NOT there,

also. They naturally fill the void as predators....when allowed to .
There was a reason that lions , wolves and bears , as well as buffalo and elk were basically irreadicated in the east. The predators are a ripping tearing , MERCILESS killing machines.
I have seen what they do, and I Know for a fact they could care less if a deer is alive as they eat it....it is as heart rending as anything I have seen in my life, and I have killed MANY animals. Does that mean they are evil? Nope. But that is what they do..Buffalo and elk just dont fit into what we want to do , cause they go where they want and do what they want....We cant control them.Is that wrong, nope, but I still like to see em.

[beenthere]

I also have doubts about re-introducing the wolves in Wisconsin. Now the farmers are losing calves, and there has been a big effect on the deer. They are becoming bolder and have multiplied rapidly without any control. There is thinking of a hunting season for the wolves now.
The biggest problem I have is the millions of tax dollars spent on bringing them back, taking care of them, tracking them, and paying off the farmers for lost animals. The hunters who are having their hunting dogs killed are also interested in being paid (but its not something that money can replace).

I'm not with the crowd that thinks because it once was, that we should get 'em back. With that thinking, will we try to get the sabre tooth, the wooly mammoth, and the dinosaurs back  ??? :
Apparently the wolves have reduced the coyote population big time. Coyotes were never a big problem, in my experience. Not like the wolves are.   I like the one I have a painting of on my bedroom wall, however.  

[johnday]

Looks like I may have opened a can of worms on the wolf subject. What you guys said about the bad points of the wolves are true. But, they are a natural thing, and Mommy nature can seem very cruel. I guess you could look at it as a mixed blessing. I don't like to see any animal suffer and I've been known to put them down when I had no choice. I also support hunting, so please , no one think of me as a tree hugger. There are good and bad in all things when it comes to wildlife. Even the deer if left unchecked can cause great harm in crop loss and vehicle accidents and disease in the herd. Predators have their place also. Let us not forget that our cats and dogs can be very efficient predators themselves.

What the final answer is, I don't know. But I do know that all animals in this world have a purpose. No slap at anyone, I think, but sometimes I wonder what is actually the smarter and more humane species, in other words, them or us! ;D

[Jeff]

The way I look at it, the disappearance in some areas of the wolf and the cougar was a natural thing. Man was involved but he was acting as a participant in a chain according to the need to have or protect. Things that all creatures do.

 The reintroduction is an unnatural thing, do to another influence. Something only man can do. Reason. Kind of a paradox on this if I say "think about it eh?"

[Bro. Noble]

Jeff,

You are becoming quite the 'PILL osopher'   :D :D :D

In Mo,  they reintroduced the river otter.  The conservation dept released just a few and had doubts that they would survive.  Because of lack of natural predators that they once had,  the ottors multiplied rapidly.  Now they have a trapping season on them cause they have wiped out the fish in many of the streams and ponds >:(

I guess they need to reintroduce wolves here to control the otters.

Then there is the multiflora roses that they introduced in the late 40's.  Living fence------bird santuary etc.  We spend several dollars and hours every year trying to controll them on our place.

[Furby]

Johnday,
Been looking for the last artical I read that mentioned some of the locations but can't seem to find it. I do remember as Jeff said, in the eastern part of the U.P., and I also remember some talk of some in the northeastern lower pen..
I know one of the collages did a survey this past winter concerning how much info the general public had on the wolves. I can't remember the collage either. Sorry.
The info must be on the net someplace, will look around.

Info:
Gray Wolf Federally Reclassified
Gray Wolf (Canis lupus)
Several good links at the bottom of the page of this link. ;)

All I could really find on the DNR website on cougars is that they are protected. But they ARE there in the paperwork.  :

[johnday]

Furby; Thanks for the links. Now I wonder how much the DNR really does or doesn't know, or purposely give disinformation?
 What tips me off on this thought is the Bald Eagle population. On just about any given day I can find eagles in Monroe county as well as Alcona county. This is at any time of the year. I definetley aren't mistaking them for anything else. Soooooo, I'm curious as to how many nesting pairs we really have. There is something inside me that says the DNR isn't telling the full truth about the eagles, let alone the wolves and cougars, or they sure have a bunch of incompetents. If I'm wrong, and I hope I am, about the incompetents, I wish some of these guys would come forth and speak to us commoners. Notice I said speak to, and not down to. Many think the DNR has gotten way too big for their britches. What do the rest of you guys think?

[Buzz-sawyer]

I think that most DNR I have dealt with in this country either are incompetent in reporting the facts or deliberately lie.
I have seen a few that seem down to earth and, as they are suppossed to be, PUBLIC SERVANTS.
When game bioligists, take surveys and do thier business, I suppose they have special skills above and beyond regular folks :P...............because they SWEAR there are no wolves, or cougars, or that some spotted owl is definitely extinct in an area...........but a common idiot (deer hunter) who spends 8 hrs a day sitting in a tree stand seems to have a whole lot clearer and reasonable prospective  ;D...when he SEES a cougar or wolf.......or owl nesting in a K-Mart sign.
I hear the same reports and denials all over the country.....and people are ALWAYS incredulous.....they cant believe the obvious error in these DNR  EXPERTS........

[SwampDonkey]

A few years ago, we had a provincial biologist miss identify a skinned black bear for a 14 year old boy. The carcass had no head or feet. Still, how could ya mis identify a dead bear. :

We have coyotes, but no wolves here. I like having the coyotes as they control the rodents, especially the hairs. He don't have a high population of deer here locally, never did. What deer get killed by the coyotes would be in winter, during harsh times. Deer aren't even native to New Brunswick, they moved in from the south and carried the brain disease that kill moose and have wiped out the woodland caribou. Except for a tiny popluation of woodland caribou on the Gaspe pennisula they are about extinct.

When I worked along some of the islands of the pacific north west it was common the see wolf tracks and alot of the time they walked by the camp in the night. But, they never ever bothered us in the bush. These islands have mountain goat, bear, wolves, Sitka deer and all got along in harmony. One trip we even had the crap scared out of us as there was a resident cougar in the area. I'm telling ya when he growled the guys made for the shore line real quick like. I took some photos of the scat and tracks it made along the road we walked to our work sight. I'de be more scared of that thing than any bear or wolf any day of the week.



This print is nearly 4 inches wide. The photo is out of focus as the picture was taken closer than 4 feet away.

Some prints to compare - Click

We were told that it was rare for a cougar sighting in this area because of the wet climate. But, none-the-less cougars are definately there. This was in Douglas Channel near Hartley Bay indian reservation.

[9shooter]

  I got an e-mail a week ago which claimed to be a picture of a mountain lion stalking a deer shot by a hunting scout camera. Location was said to be just South of Ludington Mi. during September. However upon examining the picture it was clear that the deer was a blacktail deer not a white tail. Also I was not able to identify the vegetation in the photo. Didn't look like any kind of bush I've seen in Michigan. Chalk one up as bogus.

  That being said, my in-laws have seen mountain lions in Western U.P. several times. One of their neighbors saw one cross his back yard and immediatly called the DNR. They claimed it couldn't be a mountain lion and was probably a ferral cat. He said, " ok I'll get the rifle out and dust that varmit next time I see it". He laughed and said you should have heard the back pedaling from the DNR.
  Another neighbor who raises sheep was visited by the DNR last year and they wanted to know what they would have to pay in restitution should any of his sheep get killed. He asked them if they were worried that he would kill the mountain lion that had been hanging around his place the last few weeks.They acted worried but said they were concerned about coyote predation. Right, like they worry about that. He said they hemmed and hawed and said that there were wolves around and finally threatened him if he should shoot the mountain lion. He reminded them that he had the right to protect his livestock under Michigan law.

  They have finaly admitted that these cats are around but claim that they think they are domestic in origin.

  My brother-in-law saw a black panther over 2 winters while logging in the Misery Bay area.

[babylogger]

this isnt about cougares we have them here we also have black panthers..i know they arent supposed to be here... so says the dec.. i say bs. one of our friends is dec and they let wolves a pair, 7 rattlers (in a place where kids are camping!) then the coydogs coyotes are a different story! when i worked at a water/sewer treatment plant across the road there was a momma pappa and 3 baby WOLVES!! not coy dogs. omg they were gorgeous and they loved me! i swear they new my schedule on the weekends because theyd "preen" and show the babies i loved them and my partner on opposite weekends swore they were waiting for me because theyed howl like it was a death thing id come back and mama would be fine! i know its really weird huh? they left when i quit and now i SWEAR they are at my parents house...they followed me home lol

[Corley5]

It's official!!!  No we don't have cougars but we do have wolves in the Lower Penisula.  One was trapped in a coyote set and shot by the trapper who thought it was a big coyote until he saw the collar.  It had been collared near Moran in the UP and was killed in Presque Isle Co.  The DNR has proof now 8) ;) ;D

[SwampDonkey]

:D :D Hahaha :D Hahaha  :D Hahaha :D :D

[johnday]

Corley; What surprises me, the DNR didn't try to pass it off as a Malamute!! That wolf travelled a little sounds like. He must have crossed on the ice? 8)

It's good to see I'm not the only one that has no faith in the DNR ;D

[Corley5]

I didn't see any local news tonight but according to the boss this morning a media frenzy was expected.  I work for the DNR you see ;) ;D  It is suspected that the animal probably crossed the Straights on the ice and then followed the deer yards down the shoreline towards Roger City.

[johnday]

Corley5; Slap my face and call me red!!!  :-[  I'm going to have to start watching what I write. I finally learned the hard way about my mouth. Obviously, your one of the GOOD DNR guys. Now, it's your turn, I'm still working for DTE Energy, and we all know what kind of incompetent robbers the power companies are!! : :(

[Corley5]

 ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Don't worry I'm used to it ;D ;D

[Patty]

One of our neighbors caught a mountain lion on her trail camera last week. I was real suprised. We had been hearing rumors about big cats in the area, but I really didn't believe them. However I am very suprised that the big cats are not going after the livestock in the area. You would think a cow would be easier for it to hunt down, than a deer.  Becky (the fat Belgian horse) has been acting a little nervous lately!

[beenthere]

Would be great if you could post a pic of that 'trail camera' catch.  Any chance?