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Garwood winch

Started by Tom_Averwater, September 12, 2008, 09:21:21 PM

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Tom_Averwater

I have a Garwood 10,000 lb. winch that I would like to use on my 4610 Ford tractor .I would use the hydraulics on the tractor to power it.What speed do these winches run ? How big of a hydraulic motor would I need to run it?  Thanks Tom
He who dies with the most toys wins .

pineywoods

Tom I have a big ole Koenig winch mounted on the 3 pt hitch on my kubota.I used a chain drive to a moderate sized hydraulic motor. You can use different sized sprockets to adjust the speed.  It will easily skid the 5000lb tractor with the brakes locked.



1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

timberfaller390

Quote from: pineywoods on September 12, 2008, 10:09:11 PM
You can use different sized sprockets to adjust the speed. 



you probably don't want to pull anything faster than walking speed (about2-3 MPH)
L.M. Reese Co. Land Management Contractors
Stihl MS390
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John Deere 5103
John Deere 440 ICD dozer

thecfarm

I would suggest having the controls for the winch on a rope so you can keep away from the tractor and winch when winching in.Have the winch stop when you release the rope.Alot of junk can come at you at times.Are you going to have the winch hooked up to the 3PTH to allow it to be lowered and raised?Could make a skid plate for it.Can be used to push logs around,but I like it to keep the tractor in place when winching.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

mike_van

Tom, I built mine some 10 years ago using a Tulsa winch from a wrecker. I powered it with a hyd. motor, but was never really happy with how it ran. The IH 574 has a 12 gpm pump, but 3 gal are diverted for steering, brakes, etc. By the time you get through the plumbing, valve, etc, there might be 7 gpm at the remotes?  It ran pretty slow, if a log hung up, it would just stall. I had it for sale for awhile, a few lookers but no takers at 500.00  -  A few weeks ago, I put it in my shop, and after much thought, converted it to pto drive. The hyd motor had 200 rpm, now I have 540 if I want it. The power level increase is hard to believe. I pulled two 40' logs last week, both about 18", from 200' away [close as I could get] They came through some rosebush - honeysuckle jungle you couldn't walk through. One hung up in the bank when it came out, tried to pull the rest of the way with the tractor, but the wheels spun. Moved ahead 25', set up again, the winch pulled it right up & over.  One drawback is I no longer have a power reverse, so you can't put yourself where you can't back up to let the tension off if need be.  I've got a job soon with over 50 cord of locust to pull out, so it'll be a good test.  Oh, I'm real happy it didn't sell. 

I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

WH_Conley

I have a Braden winch that I set like Mike did, with hydraulics. Also like Mike, it is now straight PTO. Just don't put it behind a stump to pull something big, if the drag gets behind another stump you are in trouble.

Tom, if you want to make a road trip you can come and look at my setup, we'll hook it up and you can see what it will do.
Bill

John Mc

Quote from: timberfaller390 on September 12, 2008, 10:23:21 PM
you probably don't want to pull anything faster than walking speed (about2-3 MPH)

That's about the speed the Farmi Logging winches will pull.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

shinnlinger

I like the idea of PTO power, and since weight and space isn't ussually an issue on the back of a tractor, could you put an auto tranny in there so you have reverse???  Isn't there some forward / reverse gearboxes out there?
Shinnlinger
Woodshop teacher, pasture raised chicken farmer
34 horse kubota L-2850, Turner Band Mill, '84 F-600,
living in self-built/milled timberframe home

John Mc

Do you actually need a powered reverse, or just a release? Something to let it freewheel would probably be easier to come up with. For that matter, some tractors PTOs are not locked in position when the PTO is shut off. Would that give enough of a release to get out of a trouble spot?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

mike_van

I don't think a clutch or reverse is a 'gotta have', but it would be nice to have the option. My winch has 2 dog type clutches on the right side of the drum, in the picture where the lever is. You pull this to freewheel the drum & run out cable. With a good strain on it, I doubt you could pull that lever. 

       My pto, it's an independant one, won't freewheel more than one turn, even with the tractor off.  The worm drive winches tend to be self locking, the ring gear won't drive the pinion.  Just to try it, the first tree I winched out, i pulled it up too far - With tension on the cable, I was able to just pop the pto shaft off the back of the tractor, and turn it backwards by hand, it let the strain right off.  Just something I'll have to learn to live with -
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

arojay

If you are going to set up some kind of freewheel, you must have a brake.  If you suck up on something and go straight to freewheel you will spend the rest of the day unravelling cable.
440B skidder, JD350 dozer, Husqvarnas from 335 to 394. All spruced up

markct

thats an interesting setup mike, just yesterday i made up a mount for a simular size holmes winch i had to mount it on the 3pt of our little ford NAA. its mechanical and has the freeweel as well as a forward and reverse incorporated into its gearbox so it was a simple matter of putting together a short pto shaft and then adding a long lever for the forward and reverse that i could reach from the tractor seat. across the bottom i put a large piece of angle iron to help dig in the ground and hold it in place when pulling. it will get its first test sometime this week dragging and loading some of the ash logs i got from a friends lot.

John Mc

Quote from: markct on September 14, 2008, 07:50:37 PM
... then adding a long lever for the forward and reverse that i could reach from the tractor seat

If you are operating it from the seat, I hope you've got some sort of safety screen or something to hide behind. A cable can do a lot of damage if it breaks under load.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

markct

yea unfourtanatly to be able to run the clutch of the tractor thats where i gota be, but i do plan to put some sorta screen on eventualy, basicly this is sorta a quick throw together thing to avoid having to do so much work with a come along and to be able to have a bit better control pulling logs on the truck than we get with just driving the tractor along with the cable thru a snatch block since 1st gear isnt as slow as i would like when guiding a log with a bar! so no real hard pulls, and most of the time will be running thru a snatch block on the truck or yarding point to if the cable came unhooked from a log that should stop it before the hook end got to me, but still something to be cautious with indeed

mike_van

Mark, the guard I made on mine, you can see in this pic. 2" angle with expanded metal mesh. It could probably be bigger, but it's easy to add on to. 

  That fwd/N/rev on your winch is good, I saw another like it a few days ago.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

pineywoods

pto vs hydraulic drive...   Go with the hydraulic if at all possible. You will need reverse/power out more often than you think. with ptoThink log hung on a root, cable tight as a fiddle string, no way to loosen it. Well, you can put the pto in neutral and get on the drive shaft with a pipe wrench  smiley_furious3 Don't need all that big a hydraulic pump or motor. I have snapped 1/2 steel cable with mine. 9gpm pump on a kubota.  with pto, you have a short drive shaft with some severe angles on the U joints. they will fail often. with pto you have no safety fuse. When something hangs, the weakest link will break, hopefully not the drive gears in the tractor tranny or the worm gear in the winch.  expensive :o Hydraulics will have a pressure relief that gives some protection. In either case, one other thing to keep in mind.....those old winches are worm drive, running in an oil bath. The worm needs to be immersed in oil, splash lube ain't good enough. So don't mount the winch with the input shaft on top. I ain't saying how I know :-X
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

dancan

Good reading and insight .
I bought a similar winch with the same intentions of mounting on a pto .
What were the original uses of these winches 
Quote from: mike_van on September 14, 2008, 09:10:37 AM
I don't think a clutch or reverse is a 'gotta have', but it would be nice to have the option. My winch has 2 dog type clutches on the right side of the drum, in the picture where the lever is. You pull this to freewheel the drum & run out cable. With a good strain on it, I doubt you could pull that lever. 

      -

pineywoods

re--original uses for these winches....Around here, every oil-field truck had one of these mounted right behind the cab. roller chain drive down to a shaft which ran underneath the truck to a pto on the side of the transmission. Usually a boom made from 3 pieces of oil-well pipe with a snatch block on top. Used for loading, unloading and setting up drilling equipment, and as a small general purpose crane.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

dancan

It's the load/tension thing that made me wonder , how was tension released in it's original application ?

pineywoods

Quote from: dancan on September 15, 2008, 08:35:56 PM
It's the load/tension thing that made me wonder , how was tension released in it's original application ?
pto's on most truck trannys are reversible.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

dancan

Quote from: pineywoods on September 15, 2008, 08:52:17 PM
Quote from: dancan on September 15, 2008, 08:35:56 PM
It's the load/tension thing that made me wonder , how was tension released in it's original application ?
pto's on most truck trannys are reversible.
Thanks

Larry

pineywoods, I agree with everything you said about using a hydraulic motor...only problem I was never smart nuff to figure out what size it would take.


Quote from: pineywoods on September 12, 2008, 10:09:11 PM
moderate sized hydraulic

Could you point me to the right size motor to use on my 30,000 pound Garwood?  Does Surplus Center sell a motor that would work?  I think it would be an easy and worth while conversion for me to make.




Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

pineywoods

Quote from: Larry on September 16, 2008, 07:33:05 AM






Could you point me to the right size motor to use on my 30,000 pound Garwood?  Does Surplus Center sell a motor that would work?  I think it would be an easy and worth while conversion for me to make.




Surplus center would definitely have anything you need.  If you can get your hands on one of their catalogs, there's some charts in there that compares various hydraulic motors with electric and gas. what you need is low speed high torque. I could go out to the mill and read the data plate on mine, but it's DARK out there and there's SKEETERS. I scrounged mine off an old truck tire changer and don't know right off hand. It's about the size of a large tin can. Took me 2 tries changing sprocket sizes to get it like I wanted.


UPDATE  The data plate is long gone. It's 3 inch dia, 6 inches long 1/2 pipe ports. I would estimate 100-150 rpm with 8 gpm flow. Plenty stout. I have busted roller chains and winch cable, never stalled the motor.
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

Tom_Averwater

Thanks for all of the replies .Now I have alot of of ideas to work with .
He who dies with the most toys wins .

MikeON


The Vietnam era Deuce and a Half army trucks (M35A2) had Garwood 10,000 lb winches.  They were PTO driven.  The PTO had two forward speeds and one reverse.  A later version of the Deuce (M35A3) has the same winch with a hydraulic motor.

Quote from: Tom_Averwater on September 12, 2008, 09:21:21 PM
I have a Garwood 10,000 lb. winch that I would like to use on my 4610 Ford tractor .I would use the hydraulics on the tractor to power it.What speed do these winches run ? How big of a hydraulic motor would I need to run it?  Thanks Tom
Woodmizer LT40HD Super.  WM Single Blade Edger,  John Deere 4310 tractor, M35A2C Deuce and a Half truck

Kodiakmac

Look, I'm an old dog who's been bush-whacking for longer than I want to admit...but you guys amaze me.  Really.

Any chance you could get together and come up with a simple design for a cheap, effective, home-made 3-point hitch skidding winch that any putz with average skills and a welder coud put together in a short time?  Seriously

Robin Hood had it just about right:  as long as a man has family, friends, deer and beer...he needs very little government!
Kioti rx7320, Wallenstein fx110 winch, Echo CS510, Stihl MS362cm, Stihl 051AV, Wallenstein wx980  Mark 8:36

pineywoods

Quote from: Kodiakmac on December 06, 2008, 10:35:59 PM
Look, I'm an old dog who's been bush-whacking for longer than I want to admit...but you guys amaze me.  Really.

Any chance you could get together and come up with a simple design for a cheap, effective, home-made 3-point hitch skidding winch that any putz with average skills and a welder coud put together in a short time?  Seriously


How about this ...








Runs off the tractor hydraulics
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

mike_van

Kodiacmac, I made my own some 10 years ago. Started with an 8,000 lb. Tulsa winch off a wrecker. I had a hyd. motor driving it, but never got the right one. Too slow & not enough 'snot' I had it for sale for awhile, some lookers, no takers. End of this summer, I had it in my shop, went from hyd. to pto drive. The changeover was just incredible. I've skidded out 100+ trees since then with no problems. I lost my reverse drive by going to pto, I have to watch out I don't get in a spot where I can't backup or lower the hitch to let the strain off the cable. So far, so good. 

  A few pics   

     The last pic. shows the butt & part rootball from an oak I winched up a pretty steep bank. The cut is about 40", the whole piece some 7 ft long. 

     The frame is channel iron from an old highline crossarm, galvenized, but it was free. I've got 125' of cable on it, twice I had to add on to reach a log.
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Ironwood

Guys,  ALL great ideas.

Larry,

I like yours on the ground, are there studs or cleats that bury in the ground if it starts to pull you in reverse? Just a thought. I think I may do a hybrid of the Larry and Mike Van units


   Ironwood
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Stephen Alford

The hydraulic winch has worked well for me . I have had it for about 17 years and because it is hydraulic it has been on more than one piece of gear.  Needs evolve and found myself needing the back of the tractor for other stuff and wanting the winch at the same time. Being able to use powered spool in and spool out with freespoll has been very useful. The thing I never got to incorporate yet is some form of fairlead to keep the cable coming on stright to reduce wear. Added a couple of yarding pics to the gallery. :)

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beenthere

Stephen
Is that pulpwood you are bringing in?   or for firewood?

And do you just winch it in, or try to back out with it on the front like that?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Stephen Alford

Hey BT; our forestry sector has pretty much flatlined. Firewood is the primary product these days especially in any stand improvement work. Over the years that winch has pulled just about everything . Generally speaking the twitch is pulled together and hauled ahead. the tractor is turned and the wood sorted and hauled to the landing with the grapple. Then the slash is picked up and piled or spread depending on objectives. :)
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