Suburban sawyer

[John357]

Hello,

Received the HM126 two weeks ago, brand new from the factory.  Took a few days to assemble, but am ready to go now.

I am a woodworker initially, bought the mill to process neighbor's trees (all my trees are cut for firewood) rather than see them carted away.  I'm looking to saw up the best quality boards from any logs I can get.  Log handling is a 4x4 and a winch and an 8 foot trailer. 

John

[thecfarm]

John357,welcome to the forum and the world of sawing!!! 
You can post pictures of some of the stuff you built

[John357]

Thanks Thecfarm!

John

[Chuck White]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, John357

[goose63]

Welcome to the Forum John your going to need some more things a logrite peeve to turn the logs and if thy are big 

  I cheat some

[kelLOGg]

Hey, John. I'm in Durham, actually Chatham Co. Whereabouts are you in Raleigh? Welcome to the FF.
Bob

[fat olde elf]

Welcome John !!  Always glad to see another NC sawyer.... I'm 30 miles east of Charlotte and and proud to be acquainted with Bob Kellog and many others here in NC.  This Forum is your best source for info and expertise.  Glad you are here .....
Paul R.

[Magicman]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, John357.  Sounds like you have a plan so continue to share your sawing and woodworking experiences here. 

[John357]

Thanks for the welcome.  I do have a 5ft. cant hook for turning and loading. 

I have a few logs waiting this morning, my first try at loading the trailer with the winch.  I just don't have the space for a tractor/lift and can't justify the expense.   That's why I settled on a manual saw, on the ground.  It seemed to me to be a huge leap to go with a portable mill (on a trailer) because I would need a truck, larger saw (w/ hydralics  ;D) and then a loader. 

Like I said, I'm trying small scale suburban cutting for now.  I know I may have to refuse some larger logs.  I'll let you know how it goes.

John

and thnx for the NC welcome!  I'm near Falls Lake in Raleigh, large lots and many trees.

[drobertson]

It looks to me like you have it going just fine,  those smaller mills on the ground look perfect for what you have in mind.  Next step is to get us some photos to see some of the action! ;D

[John357]

Well, I have proven the concept with the first log!  I was able to winch the log up onto the trailer without a problem.  Now I need to fab some blocks to keep the trailer at the correct angle, and some blocks to lift the front end of the log so it won't get hung up on the trailer. 

I'll download some pics later tonight.

John

[Slingshot]

   Or you could put a rig like this on your trailer...



 



 



 


Have fun with your new mill.
__________________________________-----
Charles,   

[John357]

I'll try to get a better pic of loading a log tomorrow. 

For now, here's the mill,



 

and another,



 

Let's see if they uploaded properly ...

John

[John357]

Great!  once I had a small log on the mill, I trimmedit up on four sides.  I found the cut was not straight.  It was only a little larger than this cant, so that may have something to do with it.  Of course, maybe the blade wasn't tight enough.  Anyone seen this before? 


 



 

I think I'm getting the hang of this.

John

[Allen S]

Welcome John357 you will like that mill I have one just like it. How long is your bed on yours?

[John357]

Hi Allen,

The total length is 18 ft., but the cutting assembly (what do we call that?) takes up about 3 feet. 

For anyone else, the mill ships with 2 sections of 6 ft. each, so out of the box I can mill about 9 ft. log.  I bought an extra 6 ft. (and got another 6 ft. for half price, which is still in the box in the shed) so I won't be squeezed on either end.   I've seen some pics where an operator has the extra track run into a wood shed with a closing door so he can store the head assembly out of the weather.  That's what I had in mind and hope to do eventually.

John

[slider]

Welcome  John nice mill you have there .Can't wait to see what you do with your wood.Oh and by the way when you get that part about turning down the ones that are too big to mess with figured out let me know how you did it.al

[dboyt]

Welcome to the forum, John, and congratulations on the mill.  You'll get more consistent on your cuts with experience.  Some species, like post oak, are very hard to cut straight.  Blade tension could be the culprit, but don't just keeping cranking it tighter thinking that you'll fix a crooked cut.  Cutting speed-- either too fast or too slow-- can cause wavy boards.  Knots can be a problem.  Check your blade guides to make sure they're parallel to the track.  And when you saw into a log stop or clamp, just put on a fresh blade and keep on sawing.

As Slider says, it is easy to SAY you'll turn down big logs.  But when you get a nice 40" walnut log, you'll find a way to mill it.  I've quartered many a log with a chain saw to get it on my mill.

[backwoods sawyer]

when you saw into a log stop or clamp, Lower the log stop then, just put on a fresh blade and keep on sawing.

;D you would not be the first to miss that step ;D

[John357]

Well these neighborhood trees just about did me in today.  I got 4 beautiful, straight logs, and a fifth at the top with some branches 15 inches at the base, all cut to about 9 feet.  But getting them on/off the trailer was murder.  I may have satisifed my desire to mill every tree around! 

thanks for the encouragement Dboyt.  I'd like to get a little more precise before attempting these beauties. 



  

  

 

I think they're maple.  Is there anything unique to sawing maple I should know?  Does it benefit from Qsaw or rift sawing like oak?

John

[RayMO]

They kinda look like hickory but hard to tell in picture.

[SLT44]

I'm curious as to what size winch you are using to pull the logs on your trailer and if you have pointers on that process.  I have a good two axle trailer, but I'm in the same situation of not wanting to invest in some sort of loader to move logs a dozen miles to my mill--which is just like yours.  Many thanks for any tips you and others can give me.

[John357]

Hi SLT44,

Mine is a 8000 lb. Smittybilt winch (XRC 8000) with stainless steel line, mounted in the front of the jeep.  I have to position the trailer and then turn the jeep around to use the winch.

In order to pull the logs onto the trailer, I am able to tip the end of the trailer way down, and have to also raise the front of the logs so they will clear the trailer.  Then I winch the logs up.  They slide easily up the deck.  It's tricky to know when to stop, if I have another log to load, as the trailer will fall to level once the log is fully on (I'm pulling 8 ft. logs on an 8 ft. trailer). 

I have been simply hooking the winch hook onto the line itself, but plan on getting some skidding tongs for ease of use, and because the winch line is rubbing on the trailer.   Someone suggested using rollers under the logs on the deck; I have some round hand railing I'll use next time. 

Unloading is almost a bigger challenge.  I could reverse the process and winch the logs off the trailer, but that's too much work.   First time I just levered the logs off the end at least halfway (pushing against the side rail) so the logs tipped off but were still hanging on (trailer didn't tip at it was still attached at the hitch), and then driving off quickly!  Not really a good practice, but it was getting late.  For this load, I will place the rollers under the logs before taking off, hopefully the impacts won't be as bad as the first time. 

I spent all morning researching A frames and gantry hoists for unloading.  Saw some pretty good videos, of hoists that probably would work, but the frame will be in the way after I move the trailer and lower the log.  Still thinking about that. 

Hope that gives you some ideas, would love to hear of your approach.

John

[Magicman]

I have been simply hooking the winch hook onto the line itself, but plan on getting some skidding tongs for ease of use

Or at least get a short chain and put a "cable" hook on one end to use as a choker.  No need to damage/fray your winch line.

[John357]

Great idea Magicman, thanks. 

Thinking about skidding tongs, they clamp as they are pulled, right?  And lifting tongs are more heavy-duty than skidding tongs?  Only thing I know is lifting tongs are more expensive than the skidding tongs.

John

[terrifictimbersllc]

Someone more knowledgable will surely weigh in, but I'm pretty sure "lifting" means individual testing and tagging for overhead lifting over humans, or in other words they're individually tested to be safe at a given weight.  This makes them more expensive.  Not necessarily more heavy duty but each proven to perform at its rating.

Testing or not, safety is much increased if one stays out of under, or above not below a log, and out of the line of pull of a chain or especially, a cable.

[goose63]

Some one post sawyerbrowns DanG loader here I don't know how too its a good loader he has there

[pineywoods]

John, put a trailer hitch ball on the front of your jeep. Then build a simple version of the Dang Fla_deadheader loader on the back of your trailer. Simple, cheap, and works well. As a safety precaution, block up the rear of the trailer so the weight of the log doesn't jump the hitch off the ball. I use home-made tongs to grab the log.

[drobertson]

I believe you have some fine hickory there in the last pic post. 

[John357]

Really?!  That would be great.  It has almost bright white wood, can't differentiate any sapwood at the edge, nor in the middle.  Small limbs from the top are grey with smooth bark, is why I thought maple.

Anything to remember when milling hickory?  Would it benefit from Q-saw?

John

[John357]

More thoughts on unloading, I'm going to investigate building a simple lever that I can move next to the trailer with logs.  I can then lever the logs back about a foot and support those ends on the ground.  Then I only need to lift half the weight of the log, and then only about a foot higher than the deck, so to drive the trailer away. 

Simple lever would be about 4 feet high at the fulcrum, 6 feet long over the bed, and say, 12 feet on the other end.  Using the weight calculator, 14 inch log 9 feet long (hickory) weighs about 600 lbs.  To lift 300 lbs with mechanical advantage of 2x equals 150 lbs. 

Now to determine the composition of the arm  ;D

John

[Joe Hillmann]

To make loading and unloading easier you could put two 4x4" across the bed of your trailer one about two feet from each end(they are just to keep the logs off the deck so you can get a chain/cable under them) and also a set of ramps then you can parbuckle them onto and off the side of the trailer.

With logs that size you could almost parbuckle them by hand.

Here is a link to parbuckleing
https://www.google.com/search?q=parbuckle&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs

For rolling cants that are too large to do by hand this is what I do.

 

In the diagram I left out the mill bunks but keep in mind the log is sitting on the mill and not floating in mid air like it looks in the picture.  Also the larger the log the farther you have to tip the top of the bar out from the log to keep the weight off the backstops as much as you can.

[John357]

Hi Joe,

Good set up there.  I saw that in some of the mills that I considered buying, a hand cranked winch attached to the side of the mill.  One criticism I heard was that it sometimes was difficult to keep the log rolling evenly up the ramp.  I'm glad it works for you, I'll keep it in mind once I finally have to get a log on the mill.  I'm assuming I'll be able to roll up some ramps with a cant hook.

John

[Joe Hillmann]

Hi Joe,

Good set up there.  I saw that in some of the mills that I considered buying, a hand cranked winch attached to the side of the mill.  One criticism I heard was that it sometimes was difficult to keep the log rolling evenly up the ramp.  I'm glad it works for you, I'll keep it in mind once I finally have to get a log on the mill.  I'm assuming I'll be able to roll up some ramps with a cant hook.

John

The diagram that I posted was to roll a can't once it is on the mill.  It would be already sitting on the bunks of the mill and the right side of the log would be tight against the dogs of the mill. The piece of pipe would be removed when cutting and would only be there for rolling the cant.

Using a cant hook to roll a log up a ramps probably isn't the safest way to do it.  You say your mill is right on the ground so your ramps probably aren't that steep but if you slip or the cant hook slips there is no way for you to get out of the way before the log has run you over. 

If you have a hard time with the logs wanting to go up the ramp crooked when parbuckeling using a winch you can either use another cable or chain to make a v or once it starts going crooked use a cant hook to roll the end that is going to fast back down.  When doing this you want to stand on the uphill side of the log.  In fact you never want to stand on the down hill side of a log on ramps.  If something slips or lets go it would knock you down before you know what has happened.

[backwoods sawyer]

Two thing you never want to be down hill from.
A log you are rolling and a bear in a tree ;D

[John357]

the unloading was a success.  It took a little adjustment of the rig, but once the supports were reinforced and the pivot was secure, I was able to unload by myself.



 



 

Once the trailer was out of the way I just lowered the log to the ground, then kicked it over off the support.

John

[beenthere]

Interesting.
Wonder why not just try chaining a log on the trailer to that SUV/Van and pulling the log off onto the ground?

Much less rigging IMO. They slid onto the trailer, and should slide off just as easy.

[goose63]

I use me little tractor to drag of my trailer all the time a lot less monkeying around

[5quarter]

John...that's a clever solution. You could also run a long chain or cable from one of those large trees to where ever you want to unload your logs. Then just chain them up and drive out from underneath them

[John357]

I am trying to reduce the amount of abuse the trailer has to take, but yea, now that you mention it, maybe a little too much engineering  :laugh:

If I had a big gorilla of a tractor, I wouldn't need so many monkeys!

John

[goose63]

John my tractor aint that big 30 horse power 4x4 it will lift 1000 lbs

 
its handy to use around the mill and yard makes for a lot less work

[SLT44]

John:  A really useful string--good set of options for loading and unloading to think about.  I'll let you know if I come up with anything interesting when I get to those bur oak logs in March.  Went ahead and picked up a 9500 lb. winch to use on and off the trailer.  Good luck working up those logs.  May there be many more.  Terry (SLT44)

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Where there is a will....there is a way, Goose. 

[John357]

Well before attacking those nice logs I had to find a place to set the boards.  I added another drying shelter behind the shed, just like the first, and made room for the stack. 



  

 

finally got around to the first log, which was near the top of the tree and had a few branches, but a real log this time, not a large branch. 



 

Near this point is where I finally broke the first blade.  It had been used for all the knotty branches and practice logs, and yes, even ran into a log dog!  Doh, didn't notice it at first and thought it was metal as I was into a crotch.  Anyway, learned to replace a blade and get the tracking correct.  Then to finish the log. 



 

Hard to see but there are several ~3 and 5 inch boards there, trying to hit 7/8 inches. 

John

[goose63]

Looks like your getting the hang of things. the log dog thing well I have hit mine 3 times 

[GAB]

Looks like your getting the hang of things. the log dog thing well I have hit mine 3 times

So like me you hit the log stop three times - Congratulations and welcome to the slow learners club.
Gerald

[Peter Drouin]

Nice job, your getting the wood cut and that's all that counts. 8) 8) 8) 8)