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General Sawing tips for portable sawyers

Started by WV Sawmiller, February 25, 2018, 09:50:02 PM

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WV Sawmiller

   Because of rain and mud I am suffering from cabin fever and have been sitting around watching sawmilling videos and such and watching and maybe picking up a tip or two from others - sometimes from what they did right, sometimes from what they did wrong. It made me think about some of the handy tips I have picked up here and from experience in the past 3+ years I have been learning this. Keep in mind these tips are mostly for a portable sawyer with a hydraulic mill often working alone. Some may apply to you, others won't. You may have tried some of these and found they were counterproductive for you. I will keep adding to my written list as I go along and welcome any additions you have that I may have overlooked. Everything below has been discussed at least once, often many times. I just sort of consolidated several of them in one place.

Basic sawing:

1.     Make and use a cheat sheet – pre-determine the starting points on your final face that allows you to finish on your mark for a desired board size when you reach the bed rails. This saves you a cut on most cants and prevents ending with a thick or thin board at the bottom of your cant. You may check and find your mark for cutting 8/4 will still allow you salvage a 4/4 that would have been thrown away in the slab. (Tension and stress raising the log and required trim cuts may still cause extra cuts to be needed.)

2.     Turn small logs and cants by hand – this is often faster than using your hydraulic log turner which is generally designed for bigger logs/cants. I keep a mill special cant hook readily available at the head of the mill for this purpose.

3.  Keep the log as far forward as possible – for mobile milling you can save steps and time if you don't have to walk around the wheel each trip. Keep in mind this may make it harder to turn the log with you hydraulics in some cases (N/A to sawyers riding on fancy ride-along mill seats).

4. Use your tape measure on cants and flitches to be edged. Instead of estimating the height of the dip in the cant or wane on the flitch, step forward and quickly measure from the bed rail and set your band height exactly for the cut. This is much more accurate and if it saves you an extra cut even once in a while it is time well spent. (N/A to sawyers riding on fancy ride-along mill seats but it does work for the rest of us.)

5.     Unless otherwise dictated, saw in standard 2" widths – this makes stacking and tallying faster, easier and more consistent. When quarter-sawing, sawing for grade or directed by your client you may not be able to do this and you may have to saw truly random widths.

6.     Heart/pith checks – as much as possible, before sawing position the log such that the cant will lay flat on the rails with any predominant heart/pith check/crack parallel to the rails. Ideally this will result in only one damaged board instead of every board having the same crack in it.

Edging:

1.     Edge your flitches against a cant – this helps hold your flitches in a more stable and a more vertical position. I saw the cant to a standard point just below the width of the narrowest board I will be saving. Example: 3-1/4" cant when saving down to a  1X4, 5-1/2" cant when sawing 1X6, etc.

EDIT: Since I first posted this I have modified my procedure a little here as noted in this updated thread. 

Edging against a cant - modified the process in Sawmills and Milling

2.     Saw the flitches against the cant they came off – For portable milling I put all flitches on the lifting arms and edge them against the cant they came off. This prevents double handling, extra equipment such as sawhorses, etc. and crowding your workspace. Stationary sawyers sometimes use edgers ors stage flitches and edge similar sized flitches to reduce cuts. Mobile sawyers often don't have the transport space or extra help to do this.

3.     Use a pivot stick when sawing more than 3 flitches. When you remove all the wane/bark off one flitch but bark remains on the others, to turn just one flitch, loosen the clamp, lift that flitch above the height of the others, place a cut off sticker a under it 2-3 feet from the end then bear down on your end to raise the other/rear end of the flitch then flip it and slide it back vertically into the stack to edge the opposite side.

4.     Use a spacer board for single/narrow flitches. If you find you need to edge a single 4/4 flitch or such too narrow to clamp tightly you can lay a 1X4 or 1X6 down flat as a spacer. This keeps pressure the length of the spacer board instead of just in the center where clamped.

Log Moving and turning:

1.     Make and use a MM log turner (MMLT) from the hook of an old cant hook connected to a short piece of chain. Open the moveable hydraulic clamp as far as it will go, hook the MMLT hook into the log, wrap and connect as much chain as needed to link the head of the clamp and the MMLT then close the clamp. This will move or roll the log the length of the clamp. Open the clamp and repeat as needed if more turning is required.

2.     When MHE is not readily available, make and use a pivot under logs as needed to center them on the loading arms – position a piece of a 4X4 or equivalent under the center of balance of the log to be moved/turned and roll the log on to it with a cant hook. With both ends of the log off the ground the log can now be turned easily by hand or with a cant hook.

General:

1.     You can always make them smaller – within equipment, transport and storage constraints, whether logs or stock lumber bigger/longer is always better. A slightly oversized 2X12 can be cut down to 2-2X6's, 1-2X8 and 1-2X4 or 3-2X4's, etc. A 31' log can be cut into 3-10' logs, 1-10', 1-12' & 1-8' log, etc.

2.     Blades – a 4 degree blade will cut softwood and hard wood. A bigger hook angle may cut faster in some woods but a smaller hook angle will cut more different kinds of woods better. When loading up for a distant mobile job keep this in mind and pack accordingly.

3.     Keep plenty of business cards and gloves handy – if/when spectators show up to watch you milling give them a couple of cards and if extra help shows up make sure you have extra pairs of cheap gloves available to offer for them to use.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

51cub

Thank you for this! This is perfect for me. A little reading now and then to pick up one or two things. Also, the idea about the gloves. I usually have mine in the truck anyhow, but alot of people, and rightfully so, don't want free help from somebody who wants to learn
I believe in the hereafter, because every time I take two steps into the tool crib to get something I wonder " what did I come in here after"

If nothing else I'm always a good last resort or the guy to hold up as a bad example

Chuck White

If you edge on the mill, stop sawing when the cant gets down to 5 inches, and edge your flitches against the cant!

The reason for the 5 inch height is, at that point you still have enough of a cant to saw against for stability, and it's now low enough that you won't be making a lot of marks on the top of the cant, since 5 inches is not a standard size, vs 6" or 4"!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

DDW_OR

THANK YOU!

my setup is stationary, but i have learned a lot from your posting

FYI - Useful sawmill mods in Sawmills and Milling
"let the machines do the work"

DDW_OR

"let the machines do the work"

SawyerTed

WV Sawmiller this is an important thread that will help a lot of us beginners.  Thank you for the insights.  I look forward to other experienced sawyers to add their tips.
Woodmizer LT50, WM BMS 250, WM BMT 250, Kubota MX5100, IH McCormick Farmall 140, Husqvarna 372XP, Husqvarna 455 Rancher

WV Sawmiller

Chuck,

 I generally save down to a 1X4 out of my flitches to maximize my yield and minimize my waste. I have no trouble using or selling a 1X4 board as many people use them for strips under a metal roof and such.

 If I am sawing 1X4's out of my flitches I stop when my cant is at 3-1/4". I'd cut the cant if I were to stop at a 5" cant. If I am sawing nothing below a 1X6 then I stop at 5-1/2". My cheat sheet is set up for 1-1/8" drop per cut which is what I set my SimpleSet to. These leave me a 1/8" kerf and a 1" board after each cut. So for 4/4 boards my starting points/marks that I set my SS are:

1"
2-1/8"
3-1/4"
4-3/8"
5-1/2"
6-5/8"
7-3/4"
8-7/8"
10"
etc.

 

  I find plenty of support for a 1X4 or a 1X6 against a 3-1/4" cant. If I were edging nothing smaller than 1X12's I'd probably use a 10" cant.

  If you are not saving anything below a 6" board I'd agree with the 5" (Actually 5-1/2" in my case) cant.

   BTW - I never make marks against the cant because it is always at least 1/2" below the blade.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WDH

If you are sawing wood for furniture, especially high value hardwoods,  saw the boards at 1 1/8" thick.  A lot of people saw at 1" thick, but the boards can be tough to get flat, straight, and planed on both sides to 7/8" thick.  That extra 1/8" makes all the difference.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

YellowHammer

Saw straight!  Do whatever it takes.

Some would think it obvious, but....I don't saw portable but I have a constant stream of customers who call me and want me to saw their wood, despite the hassles they have to undergo to transport them to our location.  When I tell them CL is full of portable sawyers and it will save them a lot of work, the answer I usually get back is that they know, but they have heard these guys have bandsaws and can't saw straight.  Obviously this isn't true of all portable sawyers, or well aligned mills, but that is the public perception around here.  Unfortunately, my own experience is the same, as one of the main reasons I bought my first mill several years ago was because the first 2 different sawyers I brought my hard earned logs to, both butchered them up pretty badly.  So I would say do everything possible to meet or exceed a customers expectations of quality and competency, and you will set yourself apart.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WV Sawmiller

Danny,

   Good point. If I were chasing that market and cutting 1-1/8" boards my cheat sheet would read:

1-1/8
2-1/4
3-3/8
4-1/2
5-5/8
6-3/4
etc.

   I'd stop at 3-3/8 to edge my 1X4s or 5-5/8 for my 1X6s.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

terrifictimbersllc

Helps to discuss use of the lumber before the sawing day, especially with an inexperienced customer who has a specific project in mind.  Get them to think about finished dimensions beforehand. Better than trying to design the project after the first log has been loaded onto the mill.  

I hate this discussion:  (Sawyer) Ok what are we sawing out of this one?   (Customer) Whatever you can get.  Or,  (Customer) What do you think?   :D
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

YellowHammer

What Danny and WV says about sawing hardwood to 1-1/8" is very true, and is probably one of the other top complaints I hear from customers, i.e. the last time someone milled their hardwood, it was cut thin and wouldn't finish out to 3/4 inch.  This also has something do with cutting straight.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

WV Sawmiller

TT,

   Its almost funny but sad in another way but what you say is exactly what most customers ask me too. It is rare, but nice, when the customer actually knows what he wants out of his logs. 

   When he asks me what I'd cut out of this log I tell him "What ever I needed that it would yield." I do often salvage some 4/4 that would go to waste while cutting 8/4 (if the customer concurs) and I may suggest a short crooked log would make some nice benches or such if they want some.

   What I like is when they give me a cut list at the start with something like "I need this much 8/4 for framing and cut the rest into 4/4 for sheeting." Then I know what to cut and have some flexibility too. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Darrel

Keep your mill properly maintained and aligned.

When I bought my used LT40 it took me a week to get it running good. New belts, replace grease zerks, electrical, alignment, alignment, alignment.  I don't think I spent more than $100 on parts but time is also money. I think I could do every thing I did then in a day now but still. . .
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Percy

One I learned way back, if you are cutting a log large enough that it approaches the limitations of your mill, do a dry run with no blade on the mill and see how low, how much you need to notch with chain saw, or position log better or yadda yadda. It is a time saver when cutting the monsters :D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

WV Sawmiller

Percy,

   Good suggestion. One I have seen before but not tried yet although I should have on a walnut crotch I sawed last week. Would have saved me some extra effort. On really big ones you could use the no blade tip then after cutting the first/widest cut, you can gun barrel the log to whittle it down till it will fit the rest of the cuts.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Magicman

Nice tip Percy.

You always know where you are going before you leave home, so you should always know where the sawmill head is going before it leaves home.  On big logs, I regularly travel to the log end and lower the sawmill head to the sawing height before sawing.  This insures that the blade guide, etc. will clear the log's end.  Backing out of a cut is never fun.  :-X
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WV Sawmiller

    Starting on the big end is another tip that will help prevent back-outs too but that is not always possible. Also a knot or sweep may cause a roadblock before you even get to the end. The no-blade tip/check would identify these issues too.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

DDW_OR

I mill for myself, and primarily cut cedar and fir/pine.
I use a T-square i made out of some 1x
put the T-square across the rails on the big end of the log. then put a spring clamp on the vertical part of the T-square, either at the top of the log or at the center of the log.

then move the T-square to the other end and raise the toeboard till the log is level

this photo shows how much i need to raise the log
"let the machines do the work"

Kbeitz

I only move the small end up half the difference of the tall end. If the big end is 20" high and the little end is 16" high I would bring up the small end to 18" This centers the pith.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

DDW_OR

Quote from: Kbeitz on February 27, 2018, 01:43:38 PM
I only move the small end up half the difference of the tall end. If the big end is 20" high and the little end is 16" high I would bring up the small end to 18" This centers the pith.
thank you.
i am very Green when it comes to milling
still trying to figure out 4/4 and 8/4
i think it is 4" x 4" and 8" x 4"
"let the machines do the work"

WV Sawmiller

   No. 4/4 is 4 fourths of an inch or 1", 8/4 = 2", 12/4 = 3", 6/4 = 1.5", 5/4 = 1-1/4", etc
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

WDH

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 27, 2018, 08:37:35 AM
Danny,

  Good point. If I were chasing that market and cutting 1-1/8" boards my cheat sheet would read:

1-1/8
2-1/4
3-3/8
4-1/2
5-5/8
6-3/4
etc.

  I'd stop at 3-3/8 to edge my 1X4s or 5-5/8 for my 1X6s.
Howard,
Except for the bottom board (dog board -old saying), you need to add 1/8" for the kerf on your cheat sheet. For example:
Bottom board 1 1/8"
Second from bottom board  2 3/8"
Third from bottom board 3 5/8"
Essentially, add 1 1/4 " from the bottom board of 1 1/8" for each board above the bottom board as the 1/8" kerf from the sawblade comes from the top of the cant. 
Hope this makes sense. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

WV Sawmiller

Danny,

  It does but it also depends where you read/set/calibrate the arrow on your scale. I have mine set so the kerf is taken from the top of my board. So when I read 1" on my scale there is actually a one inch board left after the cut.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Chuck White

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on February 26, 2018, 05:34:20 PM
Chuck,

I generally save down to a 1X4 out of my flitches to maximize my yield and minimize my waste. I have no trouble using or selling a 1X4 board as many people use them for strips under a metal roof and such.

If I am sawing 1X4's out of my flitches I stop when my cant is at 3-1/4". I'd cut the cant if I were to stop at a 5" cant. If I am sawing nothing below a 1X6 then I stop at 5-1/2". My cheat sheet is set up for 1-1/8" drop per cut which is what I set my SimpleSet to. These leave me a 1/8" kerf and a 1" board after each cut. So for 4/4 boards my starting points/marks that I set my SS are:

1"
2-1/8"
3-1/4"
4-3/8"
5-1/2"
6-5/8"
7-3/4"
8-7/8"
10"
etc.



 I find plenty of support for a 1X4 or a 1X6 against a 3-1/4" cant. If I were edging nothing smaller than 1X12's I'd probably use a 10" cant.

 If you are not saving anything below a 6" board I'd agree with the 5" (Actually 5-1/2" in my case) cant.

  BTW - I never make marks against the cant because it is always at least 1/2" below the blade.



I understand what you're saying Howard, the point I was trying to bring across was if your edging on your mill, stand your flitches up next to the cant and edge so that your blade clears the cant without touching it!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

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