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Author Topic: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?  (Read 4647 times)

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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2021, 11:05:54 AM »
I talked to a guy recently who used to work for a mill as a grader. I asked if he was trained and if he knew who the regional lumber grading authority was. Said yes, training at the mill under others, but never had a clue about a regional grading authority. This was in a large commercial softwood mill. I said how would you not know who Maritime Lumber Bureau was? I said they inspect. I said that mill needed bodies whether they were capable or not. It ain't around no more. ;)
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1 Thessalonians 5:21

Offline azmtnman

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2021, 12:11:37 PM »
The lumber grading industry itself may not be intentionally corrupt, but coupled together with the building code industry it has become the "pay-to-play" police. Nothing but extortion and tax!
  I understand the need for building codes (commercial buildings, contractors hired) but when they require me to buy something I can make myself or to pay someone an unreasonable amount to give me permission to use my own stuff, it steps on my "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness." 
  The whole "well, the next person that buys it....blah, blah, blah" is horse pucky! If I buy something and borrow from the bank, they are going to make me pay an inspector it inspect it. 
  
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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2021, 09:25:01 PM »
This is an interesting topic.  I recently received a call from a “potential customer” who asked questions about the use of lumber off my mill, whether it would pass inspection, has it been used in residential or commercial construction and several other questions I found unusual for a potential customer.  Not one question regarding rates, sawmill capacity etc. After a bit of checking on my part, I learned the individual is an area building inspector.  

Of course my answers to his questions were my lumber could not be used for structural construction of residential or commercial buildings.  If he wanted to have lumber inspected it was up to him.  He could use the lumber in an agricultural building or outbuilding that did not require inspection or in cosmetic/decorative non-structural applications in residential or commercial construction. I am quite careful (to the point of being repetitive) with customers regarding this issue.  However, fitness for use/application is up to the customer in NC.  I just don’t want there to be a misunderstanding.

I have heard through the grapevine, a previous customer used some lumber I cut in a structural application and the inspector was checking on how I advise customers.  I suspect it has been a contentious issue between them. 

On the original post in this thread, it appears that consumers need to be very careful now that there are lumber “knock offs” in the market.
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Offline Southside

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2021, 10:34:43 PM »
Sounds like your building inspector wanted to work for the FBI instead.  Honestly, what you describe there reminds me of the lift kit, loud exhaust, dark window film that you can buy at most auto stores, install yourself, and never be legal on the road.  The judge won't let you then claim the retail shop didn't warn you of that when you get a ticket.  
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Offline Don P

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2021, 11:12:02 PM »
It sounds like he was trying to get you to state suitability for a purpose, glad you declined his offer of entrapment. I hope Andy has his bullet safely tucked away.

I remembered another job and shady supplier, we got into the wood and it was well manufactured trash. Looked for a stamp, none, from a big mill that's #4, culls, no design values  ::).
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2021, 11:32:40 PM »
I bet the customer / builder had told the Inspector "The guy I bought it off said it was good / graded". 

If you told him it was ungraded / not guaranteed structural, then the customer was on the hook for using it wrong. If you had fed the inspector a line, it might have come back to haunt you. 

It's ironic that building failures are seldom down to owner/builder using ungraded wood. It's more often large industry companies taking shortcuts to save a few $$.  House leaks due to cheap (but trendy) cladding, and untreated wood rots out after a few years. 

Meanwhile an overbuilt 60 year old house with decent eaves to shed water is fine... 
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2021, 04:35:27 AM »
There was a true to life movie of an old guy in Saint John, NB who sawed his own and built his own home. He was a master carpenter and his trees were old growth red spruce with tight rings. He had quite a time with inspectors, went to court and won. They couldn't prove it was structurally unsound just because the lumber was not inspected and stamped with ink.

What is ironic when I think about it. We built a packing shed in 1987, cut spruce, had it sawed at a local mill, engineer approved the wood to build the structure. 50 x 80 feet. Built our own rafters, whole nine yards. 1994 comes along, had a much larger addition to add on. Reputable contractor does the work, engineered trusses made locally. Woods all graded and stamped from whichever mill it came from. Snow took it down in 2020. Older section we build before, stood strong.  :D
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1 Thessalonians 5:21

Offline azmtnman

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2021, 10:50:06 AM »
It's ironic that building failures are seldom down to owner/builder using ungraded wood. It's more often large industry companies taking shortcuts to save a few $$.  House leaks due to cheap (but trendy) cladding, and untreated wood rots out after a few years.

Meanwhile an overbuilt 60 year old house with decent eaves to shed water is fine...
This.
What did we ever do before we had powers-that-be to take care of us?  :D :D :D
I don't know, but I'm willing to bet the county building code departments belong to an association that will back them up in court?? Does anyone know? 
What jerks my chain is that there isn't even any provision for the owner/builder to use his home sawn material--like "code calls for a 2x4 so use a 2x6 and you'll be good."
What was meant to protect and help people has become an extorsion industry. 
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Offline Mooseherder

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Offline lazyflee

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2021, 12:08:31 PM »
 

This is the back room of my restaurant. Built this little pony wall to separate our new casino area. First, submit plan to state and DOJ, approved, build wall. Then, Inspected by county health inspector, state fire marshall, county and state building inspectors, and finally DOJ inspector. Just for a 4' tall wall with no load bearing or electrical. Forms, forms, and more forms. Tax dollars hard at work!

Offline barbender

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2021, 12:35:29 PM »
Parasites 
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Jeff

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2021, 12:37:48 PM »
If it were not for building inspectors I would be the proud owner of a vertical log cabin in the U.P.  Not a fan.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2021, 01:42:13 PM »
I had a high school acquaintance get in big time trouble with the law many years ago.  He and his business partner would buy truckloads of structural graded lumber, obscure the existing grade stamp, and restamp the wood with a counterfeit stamp of a higher grade.  Then they would resell the wood at a higher price, because it was marked at a higher grade.

Basically a wood product chop shop. 
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Offline Nebraska

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2021, 01:50:37 PM »
What the heck is wrong with a vertical log cabin?!!?

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2021, 05:46:46 PM »
There was a true to life movie of an old guy in Saint John, NB who sawed his own and built his own home.

 "Still Mine".  Very good but very aggravating to watch. 
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2021, 06:25:41 PM »
Here's more details about Craig Morrison's case.

https://martyklinkenberg.weebly.com/article.html
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1 Thessalonians 5:21

Offline barbender

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2021, 09:45:46 PM »
YH, if I have to go to the Big House, I want it to be for something that is a bit crazy and/or dangerous. Running drugs, armed robbery, grand theft auto...I'd hate to tell my cellmate I was in for restamping lumber😂😂
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Don P

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2021, 10:34:39 PM »
Almost as bad as saying you're in for littering  :D


Quote
What did we ever do before we had powers-that-be to take care of us?  :D :D :D
I don't know, but I'm willing to bet the county building code departments belong to an association that will back them up in court?? Does anyone know?


There is no doubt tough enforcement does save lives. Don't have to love it but them's the facts.

A building inspector, much like a cop does have immunity from prosecution if they are acting properly in their duties. There are complaint mechanisms. If there is a difference of opinion on the interpretation in his application of a particular code there is a technical review board that will hear both sides of the disagreement and render an opinion on that appeal although that opinion is just that, it doesn't have force of law. Since a code is a law a person can also seek redress in a court of law. The county is who would back them up in court as far as legal representation. I have seen a TRB opinion overturned in court.

The examples you all are complaining about are owner builders, people using their wood for their house. That is one issue. The example I started the thread with is someone misrepresenting wood for sale to others as being graded and suitable for others to use, a different issue. I'm fine with the discussion but do notice those are different things. In fact, when I want to use wood I've sawn in a house, it isn't my house. I think you all know I'm a responsible person but should anyone in my situation be free to do that without oversight. I've seen a fair amount of work and of considerably different quality and safety. Life gets complicated don't it  :D.

The building official we endured here for the last 16 years had many more complaints against him than should have been possible to maintain his job. He used the power of his position as a club to beat those he didn't care for. I imagine he cost the people of this poor rural county millions of dollars. In that regard I think we do a poor job of weeding out people who are unfit for such responsibility. He's head of the state building officials association now but he is out of our hair. I also saw him mentor young people and bring in big grants to the county. I think the new guy is going to do just fine, in my aggravation with the department I was less than welcoming in our first exchange. A reminder that every human is unique.
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Offline Southside

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2021, 10:52:49 PM »
A few years back the local building inspector and an assistant showed up here because he got an "anonymous complaint" that I was building a chimney without a permit.  If you saw where we live you would scratch your head.  I knew right away who had made the complaint as a neighbor, I have yet to see when he is sober, showed up one day when I was carrying two buckets of bricks out of the house from demoing an old chimney that had not gone through the roof for 25 years.  Anyway, I happened to be in the woods off the side of the house a bit clearing an area and when they pulled in my skidder and saw happened to be off.  So they pulled in and heard and saw nothing, turned around, and were leaving as I walked out of the woods - wearing my cutting helmet, chaps, gloves, boots, etc.  They didn't see me until I was right up to their vehicle and when they did see me their eyes all but popped out of their heads.  Clearly they were startled by this guy suddenly standing by their door dressed like Freddy Kruger and you could tell they were trying to understand why I was dressed like that.  Not being one to let go when I have the upper hand I just went along with the conversation as though I simply walk around dressed like that.  It was funny, they could not get out of there fast enough, and actually apologized for bothering me and told me they would not be back.  Yup - completely spooked - just the way I like it.  

Fast forward to now and I have done two jobs for building inspectors from other counties this year already, and to this day locally they leave the crazy guy alone.   8)
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Is This Your Homemade Stamp?
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2021, 12:35:32 AM »
What the heck is wrong with a vertical log cabin?!!?
In the U.P. no less!
An inspector that was from down state who "retired" to dafter in the u.p.. Who became the buulding inspector for chippewa county who saw vertical log houses built on stumps and rocks around lakes he visited and figured they all rot. He didnt like em. He wanted me to have signed engineered drawings to proceed.  That would of cost more than it took to build the cabin.  Find an old very long topic called dreams of a cabin.
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