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Author Topic: Wavy cuts need help please.  (Read 3962 times)

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Offline bannerd

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2021, 02:09:06 PM »
I'm going to second the issue is with the blade.  Not sharp/ set right, not well lubricated and either moving too fast or not tension enough.  The one picture where there is a dip but level at both ends happen to me once, blade stretched.

Offline jrsloan1

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2021, 01:16:10 PM »
A lot of good information has been provided. 

Did you get it corrected? 

I like to run my blades dead flat with my deck/bunks.  My mill seems to saw better.  I find it almost impossible to check the blade flatness without something attached to the blade then a 4' level and a good tape.  It will surprise you what the difference will show up. 

I find loose drive belts cause chatter marks on the lumber.  I did not see any in the pics.

Never trust nobody cause you can't fix stupid!!!

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2021, 08:54:43 AM »
Thanks for all the replies. To answer a few questions, I can control engine speed but the mill is all hydraulic including the blade drive.  The mill behaves better at wide open as far as control of carriage etc.  I think my blade speed is way too high but according to ed@ Logmaster I canít change it unless I change the gears in the hydraulic motor.  Maybe someone can weigh in on this point also.  According to the formula from cooks, my blade speed is around 9420 sfpm. (2x3.14x15=\12)x1200rpm at wheels .  Maybe someone can tell me if Iím doing that wrong.  We did make some progress in readjusting the roller guides as far as downward tension and pitch of blade. We have the guides 1/4 inch down and have the blade pitched up 1/16 right now in the front. Gonna readjust and try for 1/8 to 3/16 up this weekend. It looked like when we are coming out of the cut the rear of the blade is higher than the tooth side so thatís why we are adjusting the front side up. The heat factor on the roller guides is still there but they seem to be close to the same. The blade is cool to the touch.  We are not having a pitch problem since we switched to diesel/trans fluid for the lube.  Our mill does not have a debarker so I may have some dulling issues with sand/dirt but it has been constant with several blades so far.  Guys I appreciate all the replies and hope to some day be able to repay the forum members back with some knowledge myself.
In most cases the teeth on your blade are NOT supposed to be tipped up, or down!
Your blade "in most cases" should be LEVEL with the deck, bunk, etc, whatever your manual calls the part(s) your log sits on while sawing!
~Chuck~
Retired USAF 1989, Retired School Bus Driver 2012, now semi-retired Mobile Sawyer, 2018 Silverado 4X4
1995 Wood-Mizer LT40HDG25 Kohler - Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and single-tooth setter, 4-foot Logrite cant hook.
Basic mechanical skills are all that's required to maintain a Wood-Mizer

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2021, 11:43:01 AM »
Thanks for all the replies. To answer a few questions, I can control engine speed but the mill is all hydraulic including the blade drive.  The mill behaves better at wide open as far as control of carriage etc.  I think my blade speed is way too high but according to ed@ Logmaster I canít change it unless I change the gears in the hydraulic motor.
my fully hydraulic timberking 2000 has a variable valve that i rotate to change carriage rate.
you should have something like that

more photos of your mill please.




 
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"let the machines do the work"

Offline ladylake

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2021, 12:10:35 PM »


 If your running 30" wheels at 1200 rpm that is 9420 fpm. You need to get that down to at least 5000 fpm or less what ever it takes.  That high speed wont saw straight, break bands way sooner, wear out bearings.  I run my mill quite a bit less fpm than factory and it saws straighter.   Steve
Timberking B20 15000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Offline MSTireman

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2021, 01:31:00 AM »
Appreciate all the responses. So far we have put a 5 foot level across the band and used it instead of a 12Ē straight edge to get level with the bed. The cuts are much better with a 1/16 or less of wave. I can control carriage speed with no difference in cut quality. My next step is to figure out how to slow the hydraulic motor that runs the blades. I got mfg info off the valve that controls the motor and am gonna call Monday to see if they have any info on adjusting it. It looks to have an adjustment on it, I just donít know if itís for pressure or flow.  From what Iíve read and been told, I need to reduce flow to slow my blade speed. 

Online barbender

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2021, 01:52:55 AM »
To adjust your blade to the bed precisely, you need to make sure the level isn't resting on one of the set teeth- it needs to be flat on the body of the blade.
  
Too many irons in the fire

Offline ladylake

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2021, 06:41:09 AM »
Appreciate all the responses. So far we have put a 5 foot level across the band and used it instead of a 12Ē straight edge to get level with the bed. The cuts are much better with a 1/16 or less of wave. I can control carriage speed with no difference in cut quality. My next step is to figure out how to slow the hydraulic motor that runs the blades. I got mfg info off the valve that controls the motor and am gonna call Monday to see if they have any info on adjusting it. It looks to have an adjustment on it, I just donít know if itís for pressure or flow.  From what Iíve read and been told, I need to reduce flow to slow my blade speed.
 

 Maybe thats a flow divider valve that just need adjusting, if not they make flow divider valves.  Steve
Timberking B20 15000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Online Peter Drouin

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2021, 08:13:42 AM »
Wood Mizer has a tool to level the blade to the bed.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2021, 08:39:04 AM »
 

 
Correct barbender and Peter Drouin. 

Use the proper tool that will not contact and teeth
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Offline tacks Y

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2021, 04:13:51 PM »
MSTireman, The Logmaster manual I had was pretty weak. Like the others say, good advice. My Baker says with a 12" scale on blade level or 1/32" up lead. So the teeth side can be slightly up. Is your hyd drive direct? No belts to slip and slow blade?  

Offline MSTireman

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2021, 09:52:05 PM »
MSTireman, The Logmaster manual I had was pretty weak. Like the others say, good advice. My Baker says with a 12" scale on blade level or 1/32" up lead. So the teeth side can be slightly up. Is your hyd drive direct? No belts to slip and slow blade?  
Yes sir my blade drive is direct hydraulic. 

Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2021, 03:46:38 AM »
As a bit of an off topic hi-jack, why do some mills specify a slightly off blade alignment like that?

You want less flow going through the drive motor to slow it down. Divider would work but to slow it down that much you may consider swapping out the motor. Seems bizarre a factory made unit would be so far out, makes me wonder if we're missing something

Offline MSTireman

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2021, 11:20:09 PM »
As a bit of an off topic hi-jack, why do some mills specify a slightly off blade alignment like that?

You want less flow going through the drive motor to slow it down. Divider would work but to slow it down that much you may consider swapping out the motor. Seems bizarre a factory made unit would be so far out, makes me wonder if we're missing something
Thanks josh, Iíve thought about missing something on this mill also.  Iíve searched the internet and even though the company is not making mills like this anymore, I canít find any info on a LM5. You can find old brochures on almost any other mill they made.  I still havenít been able to get an owners manual from them either. Hope to get to fool with it again this weekend after work. 

Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2021, 05:24:16 AM »
The hydraulic motor (or pump for that matter) could have been replaced with one of incorrect capacity. I was playing around with a casappa pump/drive on a press I built recently and ended up needing to pull it apart for whatever reason. The housing is the same for about 60 different pumps of the series, but by lengthening the gear sets inside (capacity) and giving up space on the end blocks that secure them they can quite drastically change the flow rates/torques etc. So if your drive is anything like that you might be able to consider that too but probably more trouble than it's worth.

Are you sure your engine isn't over revving? Is the hydraulic pump pulley driven? Pulley ratios haven't been tampered with?

Could there once have been a flow divider that fed another feature of the mill that has been deleted or something?

Are you sure it's 1200rpm on the band wheels? Borrow/buy a cheap laser tacho and confirm?

Does the mill have any other components sucking on the hydraulic circuit? How is the blade stopped? Just being nosey now XD any photos haha?

Ive forgotten what's been said in the these already sorry if I'm repeating questions

Offline tacks Y

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2021, 08:03:17 AM »
I find it hard to believe there is a major problem. I have see a couple of the LM5s in the last couple years, none in person. I would think leaving the plant it ran fine, so what is diffferent or wrong?  How many hours on the mill? I had the same results once on my mill, rpms to slow and clutch slipped. Look for the simple.

Offline MSTireman

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2021, 11:07:48 PM »
I donít think we have a major problem or at least I hope we donít.  The mill had 290 hours when we purchased and is showing 360 as of last weekend. The biggest problem with the mill is probably the dummies running it so far.  I think it was manufactured around 04-05 according to the date code on the engine. Iíve never sawn before so the learning curve is steep as everyone on here knows. It doesnít help matters that Iím a weekend warrior either.  Most of the info Iím gaining is from this forum and videos on the net.  One thing that has been consistent as far as info is blade speed. I have checked the band wheel speed with 2 different photo tacs and both agree to within 30 rpm.  I think that once we get it slowed down just a little everything will fall into place. 

And to answer a question for josh
The hydraulic pump is direct drive off of crankshaft so no pulley ratio to worry about there. The engine is rated for 85 hp at 2400 rpm. We usually run around 2200. I canít see where anything has been taken off the mill as far as valving. It looks to have the main pump dedicated to the blade drive/hydraulic functions of the mill then. Smaller pump run off the timing cover for the controls.  Iíll do my best to get some pictures this weekend. 

Once again, I appreciate all the responses. 

Offline fluidpowerpro

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2021, 11:55:53 PM »
If you do determine that its a blade speed issue, instead of adding a flow control to slow the motor down, from an efficiency standpoint, you would be better off sizing your pump and motor to get the correct blade RPM (based on a given engine RPM). If you add a flow divider/flow control in that circuit, it will likely create a lot of heat, and your hydraulic oil temp will get too high. 
I can help you size these if you like. Just send me a PM.
Change is hard....
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Offline JoshNZ

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2021, 02:33:42 AM »
No chance the pumps been put on the band wheel and the drives been put on the engine hah..?

There probably is something else going on, with alignment/wear/tension etc but a modern mill coming off factory with a band running twice as fast as it should seems more odd than anything else to me. And should be on the list of things to fix, whatever else is going on aside

Offline ladylake

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Re: Wavy cuts need help please.
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2021, 03:01:49 AM »
If you do determine that its a blade speed issue, instead of adding a flow control to slow the motor down, from an efficiency standpoint, you would be better off sizing your pump and motor to get the correct blade RPM (based on a given engine RPM). If you add a flow divider/flow control in that circuit, it will likely create a lot of heat, and your hydraulic oil temp will get too high.
I can help you size these if you like. Just send me a PM.
I can see where a flow control  valve would create heat by blocking off part of the flow. Does a divider valve where part of the flow is sent to the motor and the rest sent to  other hydraulics create heat too.  Could be this mill has  one and the previous owner adjusted it thinking more band speed would be better.  Steve
Timberking B20 15000 hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader


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